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Mwo Gameplay Sucks


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#1 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 01:45 PM

Before you lock this thread, hear me out.

I am a firm believer that if a game has healthy and satisfying gameplay the game's population will be self-sustaining. In other words, buckets are not the problem. Population decline is a symptom of bad gameplay. Addressing the problem of a declining playerbase by decreasing the size or number of buckets those players are spread out in is using a Bandaid to try to cure cancer.

That cancer, PGI, is in your gameplay.

Now there are those who will immediately post below defending the game and saying that is perfectly fine and satisfying. Here's the weird thing: They are not entirely wrong.

If you have heard of the Bartle Taxonomy of Player Types before, I apologize for repeating old info. If you have never heard of this study, continue reading and you should have a 'eureka' moment.

According to the Bartle Taxonomy of Player Types, you have 4 overall categories that players fall into. They are Killers, Explorers, Achievers, and Socializers. Each of these players enjoys a game for different reasons. For a game like Mechwarror Online that is continually being funded in order to stay active, it is essential to appeal to as broad a playerbase as possible. That means incorporating elements that appeal to all 4 player types. And that is where the game is failing and why I had my recent ragequit thread. I just didn't see it before.

Let me break it down for you.

Killers like... killing things. The more ways they can dish out death, destruction, and misery the better. They revel in grinding the opposition beneath their boot heel until they sob with pain. These are the players who will jump to the game's defense because to them, it really is satisfying. They are able to do exactly what they want; deal death in multiple flavors. Why would this game need anything more?

Explorers like roaming around the world of a game looking for secrets or trying out experimental combinations of gear to see what works best. Because MWO is an arena-based game, there isn't much world to explore. BUT there is a Mechlab. Explorers can spend hours equipping a mech and comparing stats to see if they can make or break a meta. Why do you think Smurfy's Mechlab is so popular?

Here's the unfortunate part, and where the cancer starts to show. Because the primary way for Explorers to enjoy this game is in customization, the fact that a player starts out with only 3 Mechbays is a serious blow. Is it possible to win some for free? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that they are a premium item. I'll come back to this a little bit later.

But perhaps the biggest thing about Explorers is the game's backstory. They don't just explore the map, they delve deep into a game's lore and devour it. And that is, sadly, where the Explorers are starving. This game has tons and tons of backstory, going all the way back to its Table-Top roots. But very little of it is actually in the game. And that leaves the experience very flat and two-dimensional for Explorers.

Achievers like earning accolades, leaderboard ranks, achievements, and fluff. They absolutely love stats that tell them where they rank among the elite and how awesome they are. They like collecting things in a set or hoarding rare items. Now the cancer is getting serious.

Nobody really knows what the current rank system means. There are Tiers and XP and K/D ratios, but they are all over the place and there is no explanation to be found anywhere. That's bad. If an Achiever doesn't feel like they are making progress, they eventually leave. Sure, there are some scattered Achievements here and there. But they are few and far between. Achievers need milestones. Marks on the map to show how far along they are in their journey, and where they should be trying to get. This is where I ended up blowing up about a lack of recognition from the game for Mastering the Hunchback chassis. Apparently I am an achiever.

Now on to the last group. Socializers like playing games with people. They like contributing to a community, feeling like they belong, and helping others make progress in the game. The fact that Faction Warfare is floundering right now is not helping the Socializers at all, as it was supposed to be the big social battleground. Most of the Socializers here are primarily happy that they have discovered a community of fellow Table-Top enthusiasts who share their passion. It's hard to have a detailed conversation with other people who don't get it. But while that helps keep them content, the lack of a social battlefield, any sort of mentoring system, and very few ways to contribute in a meaningful way means your Socializers are not happy.

And that is very, very bad because your Socializers are free advertising. They are the ones who will bring their friends into the game. A discontent Socializer will not recommend this game to others, and in the worst case scenario, will tell their friends to avoid it entirely.


So now you understand why I say that MWO's gameplay sucks. But how to fix it? These are just my opinions, and hopefully others have even better ideas. BUT it all starts with making the gameplay appeal to as many of the 4 gamer types as possible.

__________________________________
TL;DR



For the Killers:
You need a vast and diverse population of players for them to kill, or they get bored and leave. Which means you need to attract more of the other 3 player types.

For the Explorers:
You need to make it easier to experiment with weapons and equipment. You need to show more stats and how they interact. You really need to make mech storage space bigger. Why? Because 3 slots isn't anywhere near enough for an Explorer. Why shouldn't you charge real money for this? Well, you can, it's just that 3 slots aren't enough to begin with.
Think of it this way: The killers enjoy the game for the death they can cause and never have to pay a single dime. The Achievers can rank up and grind forward without paying a dime, or they can pay to speed up the process. But usually Achievers would rather do things the hard way for bragging rights. For the Socializers, just playing the game with friends is rewarding, and they don't have to pay a dime either. So if you charge real money for mechbays like you have been doing, while limiting the storage space so severely, you are gimping your Explorer population. And the fatal blow is the severe lack of lore present in the game. If Explorers do not have sufficient backstory to explore and the game feels flat, they will get bored and leave.

For the Achievers:
You really, really need a leaderboard system. You need some form of ranked competitive play that lets them compare themselves to their fellow players. I've said it before and I'll say it again. You really need to consider adding the Solaris VII competitive mech circuit to this game. As in, 10-man matches of 5 minutes max, limited by chassis weight. Free-for-All, Team Deathmatch, CTF, and King-of-the-Hill. Think MechWarrior Online meets Rocket League. Maybe even go so far as to make THAT the Quick Play option, and beef up Faction Play with the current 12-man team games. Oh, and please, please, please, start putting it more milestones with rewards that let the Achievers know they are doing a good job. There is a lot of empty wasteland that isn't filled with anything. It gets old really fast when you have no idea where you are on the game-progression map.

For the Socializers:
You need to figure out a way to let them contribute more to the game. And you really need to figure out Faction Play, as that is THEIR game mode. It needs to be more social, more interactive, and more rewarding for playing together. As I said above, take the 12-man stuff out of Quick Play and replace it with the Solaris VII arenas. Having two separate but identical queues for 12-man action is causing players to go for the easier of the two. Hence, Quick Play is stealing from Faction Play. Make the two modes drastically different, and suddenly players who want a team-oriented battlefield experience will start participating in Faction Play.

Here's a crazy idea. Give Socializers the option to host their own custom Solaris VII Arena matches and tournaments, where they get to decide the rules and restrictions for the lobby AND give them the option to go with default C-bill rewards for the winners OR they can buy premium items from the store with their MC to put up as prizes for the winners!

But perhaps most importantly, Faction Warfare needs to have a sense of depth and permanence that it currently does not have. Players need to feel like their actions can shape the game without everything being reset in 6 months because they might break something. Let them flesh out their own universe and only use the big red reset button as a last resort; not as a game feature.

Anyway, just my crazy thoughts. Please feel free to offer your own ideas on how to cater to the 4 different player types. Fix this problem, and you fix the bucket problem.

Edited by Dredger, 04 August 2016 - 02:36 AM.


#2 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 01:58 PM

View PostIdealsuspect, on 02 August 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

Didnt read all but...


You missed the surprise twist, didn't you?

#3 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:03 PM

View PostDredger, on 02 August 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:


You missed the surprise twist, didn't you?



No one has time to make it through your insane wall of text to find your m. knight shamalayn ending.


Sorry, hiding important info in a wall of useless text and under click bait titles is the definition of trolling and on some boards and forums would even warrant moderation.

Edited by Revis Volek, 02 August 2016 - 02:04 PM.


#4 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:05 PM

While I do not disagree with the problems with the game that you have alluded to, I do find that placing people in specific categories is a problem. It is a continuing problem with many physcological studies where they try to strictly define a person. Seldom are people so easily categorized.

I would classify myself as partly three of those categories. I like to Explore in the Mechbay and then I like to kill other Mechs with the Mechs that I created. I also like the social aspect of the game with VOIP and this forum.

PGI must make money to survive. Mech Bays are a primary source of income. They provide a lot of free stuff for players that do not want to or cannot pay and they provide a path for getting everything you need to play the game for free. I do not begrudge them their relatively few revenue streams.

This is not directed at you but I wonder what category would the person that spends most of his time deriding and wishing for the destruction of the game and developer fall within? KIller? It seems like some only find enjoyment in repeating cliche buzz words, trendy catch phrases and lobbying for everyone to join them in the PGI hate parade.

<Shrug>

Edited by Rampage, 02 August 2016 - 02:06 PM.


#5 Fluff My Garfield

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:06 PM

View PostIdealsuspect, on 02 August 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

Didnt read all but plz man.. go play COD and bye.

LOL

I thought your banner at the bottom was part of your message and was terribly confused why you would dismiss OP's statement and then post a brag about your K/D, thereby proving some of his points regarding how valuable stats are to some people.

You needn't have said that you didn't read it all. Telling OP to "go play COD" proves that you didn't actually read past the first 15%.

OP, I like it. I like that your suggestions don't start and end with "but the lore!", are based in reality, and seem like they would definitely help.

Edit: While I was typing, apparently some other people were typing faster. I can only laugh at how shallowly people read on the forums.

Edited by Ogrecorps, 02 August 2016 - 02:09 PM.


#6 Ammo

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:10 PM

Interesting take on leadership divisions.

Well done, people may want to actually read this.

#7 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:13 PM

View PostRampage, on 02 August 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

While I do not disagree with the problems with the game that you have alluded to, I do find that placing people in specific categories is a problem. It is a continuing problem with many physcological studies where they try to strictly define a person. Seldom are people so easily categorized.

I would classify myself as partly three of those categories.

PGI must make money to survive. Mech Bays are a primary source of income.


The categories aren't meant to be exclusive to one another. It's actually more along the lines of your 'dominant' play style. Lots of gamers easily have elements of all 4, with 1 being dominant over the others. The lines are easily blurred.

As far as Mech Bays, I'm not saying PGI can't charge for them at all. I meant that giving Explorers only 3 Mechbays to play with at the start isn't enough to keep them interested. If they want to charge for additional Mechbays, just like they can charge for speeding up progress, I don't have a problem with that. But the initial number of Mechbays should be higher to encourage customization. That's more along the lines of what I meant.

#8 AztecD

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:13 PM

please dont present reasoned arguments here, PGI does not take kindly to criticism of their perfect product

#9 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:18 PM

View PostRevis Volek, on 02 August 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:



No one has time to make it through your insane wall of text to find your m. knight shamalayn ending.


Sorry, hiding important info in a wall of useless text and under click bait titles...


Actually, it was only the title and first sentence that were irrelevant. Which means you didn't make it past either before getting to the TL;DR...

View PostAztecD, on 02 August 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

please dont present reasoned arguments here, PGI does not take kindly to criticism of their perfect product


But if I logic hard enough...

Maybe?

#10 Alistair Winter

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:18 PM

@OP, I agree with your point, but do yourself a favour and change the click-bait title, because it's going to kill any kind of interesting discussion, I think.

View PostRevis Volek, on 02 August 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

No one has time to make it through your insane wall of text to find your m. knight shamalayn ending.

I legit lol'd!

#11 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:21 PM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 02 August 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

@OP, I agree with your point, but do yourself a favour and change the click-bait title, because it's going to kill any kind of interesting discussion, I think.


But look at the bottom of the screen at the number of readers...

It seems to be working, no?

Ideas are like a virus. They just need to be spread around enough to actually make an impact.

Edited by Dredger, 02 August 2016 - 02:23 PM.


#12 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

View PostDredger, on 02 August 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:


The categories aren't meant to be exclusive to one another. It's actually more along the lines of your 'dominant' play style. Lots of gamers easily have elements of all 4, with 1 being dominant over the others. The lines are easily blurred.

As far as Mech Bays, I'm not saying PGI can't charge for them at all. I meant that giving Explorers only 3 Mechbays to play with at the start isn't enough to keep them interested. If they want to charge for additional Mechbays, just like they can charge for speeding up progress, I don't have a problem with that. But the initial number of Mechbays should be higher to encourage customization. That's more along the lines of what I meant.


An interesting read... (hey I'm of Irish descent..the story, the journey always means more than the destination... because once you're there.... it's over. *shrug* ).

Don't disagree. Am however past believing anyone with the power to make the changes are inclined to either listen or make them. But perhaps you'll succeed where others have failed. Keep up the fight.

#13 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 02 August 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

But perhaps you'll succeed where others have failed. Keep up the fight.


Well, I hit rock bottom earlier today and destroyed any reputation I had on the forum. So I figured, eh, I've got nothing to lose anymore and I'm tired of being angry. Might as well try something stupid, like being constructive after a ragequit.

#14 MischiefSC

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

He breaks down player types and what they're wanting but not getting.

It's a well reasoned argument. So it will have to be kept away from Russ.

#15 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:32 PM

View PostDredger, on 02 August 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:


The categories aren't meant to be exclusive to one another. It's actually more along the lines of your 'dominant' play style. Lots of gamers easily have elements of all 4, with 1 being dominant over the others. The lines are easily blurred.

As far as Mech Bays, I'm not saying PGI can't charge for them at all. I meant that giving Explorers only 3 Mechbays to play with at the start isn't enough to keep them interested. If they want to charge for additional Mechbays, just like they can charge for speeding up progress, I don't have a problem with that. But the initial number of Mechbays should be higher to encourage customization. That's more along the lines of what I meant.



Understood. I guess I am of a mind that three is a good place to start. PGI does need and hope that a new player will spend some money on the game. They also probably hope that it happens sooner rather than later. Today's gamers have such a short attention span and there is a lot of competition out there. It is entirely reasonable to expect that many will try a game, have fun for a while and then move on. Not necessarily because the game is bad but because they lose interest quickly. It is important to get get what money you can out of these players before they depart for "greener" pastures.

As I said, I fit in three of the categories. My Killer side is certainly satisfied by MWO. My Explorer side is well satisfied with the MechLab. My social side is somewhat satisfied but I have limited that myself by not getting involved in a unit.

What I am not satisfied with is the lack of depth to the game. FP in particular was such a disappointing and frustrating experience to me. There is a lot of work to be done there and I hope to see some progress in the coming months. I do not know where this disappointment would fall in the listed categories. I do not care about achievements. I play for fun. I like to improve but I do not need numbers to tell me if that is happening or not. I can feel it in game.

I do hope that PGI adds to the Explorer type attributes of the game and that they find a way to make FP fun and interesting to play. I do not think the game play sucks. It probably satisfies 70% of what I want from a MechWarrior game. I have never played a MechWarrior computer game that satisfied all my wants but MWO probably comes as close to any of them and I have played them all.

Of course, some people have different wants than I do as your categories suggest.

#16 SilentWolff

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:32 PM

That was actually a really well thought out post OP and you have a lot of good ideas and points.
The problem is, for whatever reason, no real publisher wanted to take the risk on the game. So, we are left with the 2 bit publisher we have now. All of the above things could and should happen, but, PGI.

#17 xWiredx

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:33 PM

OP, I actually mostly agree with you. 8.5/10.

#18 Squirg

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:36 PM

Your TL;DR sucks and you watch too much Extra Credits.

#19 Dredger

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:39 PM

View PostRampage, on 02 August 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:


What I am not satisfied with is the lack of depth to the game. FP in particular was such a disappointing and frustrating experience to me. There is a lot of work to be done there and I hope to see some progress in the coming months. I do not know where this disappointment would fall in the listed categories. I do not care about achievements. I play for fun. I like to improve but I do not need numbers to tell me if that is happening or not. I can feel it in game.


Actually, you hit on something important. What you are talking about IS and Explorer trait that I forgot about. Explorers don't just explore the game world, they explore the LORE! That was what I had forgotten. Explorers need a rich backstory, or the game feels flat!

View PostSquirg, on 02 August 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Your TL;DR sucks and you watch too much Extra Credits.


HA! So you've watched their videos too, I take it. Just figured I'd apply some of their awesome concepts to a specific context.

Edited by Dredger, 02 August 2016 - 02:39 PM.


#20 Idealsuspect

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:45 PM

View PostDredger, on 02 August 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:


You missed the surprise twist, didn't you?


Pretty sure all you did write in your novel was already said thousand of time before but i have a new for you :

PGI don't care and will never read you also play another game is better than wait something different there Posted Image

If you think gamaplay suck coze too hard : go play COD
If you think gamaplay suck coze too easy : go play Arma

Edited by Idealsuspect, 02 August 2016 - 02:46 PM.






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