114 replies to this topic

[Dawnstealer]

SmokeGuar, on 06 August 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

I think you are misunderstanding the point.
IS units rush gens and primarily ignore mechs.
Clan units get kill lead and then drop gens.

This is because IS boats take much greater punishment before dying, Clan boats simply cannot do gen rushes the same way.

I'm guessing you've never been on the receiving end of the inevitable Timber Rush, which is basically unstoppable unless you KNOW it's coming.

[Husker Dude]

I'm kind of surprised to see some denial of Clan gen rushes here; I see quite a lot of organized gen rushes from GB units against FRR, which are totally obnoxious to play against but also impressive, almost breathtaking in their execution. Particularly on maps with opposing gates (Hellebore, Sulfurous), the common tactic I see is a lance + of Kodiaks coming through one gate, and the remaining team in jump capable lights and mediums waiting for the defending team to engage to hop the other gate and head straight for the gens.
I think it's actually quite hard to defend regardless of how well your own team is organized. Even if some Clan lights are fragile, they still pack enough of a wallop to get multiple gens down in one wave before they're all eliminated.
I don't think it's fun to play against, but it is a valid tactic.

[WANTED]

What Husker said. Pretty much all I have seen and that's pretty good units that are fighting another 11-12 man unit of ours. While I hate it happening to me, been trying to think of how to counter somehow. Maybe plant 2 heavies or assaults with large bodies ( atlas etc) in front of gens to block shots until others can eliminate light threat?

[Big Tin Man]

AC20, focus legs and leave them.

[Pat Kell]

Have to meet them at the gates...if you sit back by omega, they will just focus fire down turrets, gens and omega before you can do much...will take several waves though. Best way I have found to stop a gen rush is to meet them at the gates and if they run by you, just follow them in. Hopefully the damage you put on them at the gates will allow the turrets to kill them and if not, it's always wise to leave 1-2 guys at omega to "clean up" any stragglers.

[SmokeGuar]

When I talk about gen rushing regarding IS, it is 12 man death ball that walks to turrets and gens and drops them, or tries.

Using split teams is something else.

I have been part of timby "rushes" few times, some have ended well, some badly. Cant say these are common on games I have come across. Perhaps Clan side units have read IS playbook and copied stuff.

Btw. Timby has no armor or structure quirks, but I'm sure you all knew that.

[WANTED]

Yep excellent points Pat. Of course you to Big ;p glad to see some solutions offered up.

[MischiefSC]

The biggest mistake anyone makes on defense is playing reactive.

Attacker beings every wave with initiative; the very first thing the defender has to do is steal that initiative back and control the wave. The further forward the better. While there's benefits in damage done to the enemy wave in pushing your damaged mechs out of the gate it also serves to push the engagement all the way outside the gates and let your defenses move that much more forward before the other team finally pushes in.

A firing line isn't an actual good tactic - it's just the beginning of one. If your strategy doesn't move beyond that when defending don't be surprised when you get rolled or rushed.

[Nerdboard]

SmokeGuar, on 08 August 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

When I talk about gen rushing regarding IS, it is 12 man death ball that walks to turrets and gens and drops them, or tries.

Using split teams is something else.

I have been part of timby "rushes" few times, some have ended well, some badly. Cant say these are common on games I have come across. Perhaps Clan side units have read IS playbook and copied stuff.

Btw. Timby has no armor or structure quirks, but I'm sure you all knew that.

But Clans have been doing exactly that regularly since I first played CW (first tukayyid). Not to mention that the Clan mechs have speed. Anyone being under the impression that this is a tactic of IS or Clans only just has a personal one-sided experience.

[Pat Kell]

Nerdboard, on 08 August 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

But Clans have been doing exactly that regularly since I first played CW (first tukayyid). Not to mention that the Clan mechs have speed. Anyone being under the impression that this is a tactic of IS or Clans only just has a personal one-sided experience.

Got to agree. I have seen this on both sides.

[TWIAFU]

Drunk Canuck, on 07 August 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

It makes you look like a coward who doesn't want to fight good competition. It's amazing how ironic this community is. People cry about getting whipped by better teams, so rather than stepping up and working on their fighting skills, they cheese the objectives and ignore the fact that they are going to get sub 250k C-Bills when they ultimately lose to a team that can and wants to fight.

Wait, what?

"Good competition"? You mean Kodiaks first drop, then crutch crows, then Jenner IIc, and maybe Hunchbacks? You got the ironic part right, shown a great example of it.

Yep, you are crying about getting beat by better teams and now it is cheese to actually take out gens and omega. You cry too when people win by objectives in QP/GQ too?

Maybe you should learn to defend your base better?

[MischiefSC]

TWIAFU, on 09 August 2016 - 04:35 AM, said:

Wait, what?

"Good competition"? You mean Kodiaks first drop, then crutch crows, then Jenner IIc, and maybe Hunchbacks? You got the ironic part right, shown a great example of it.

Yep, you are crying about getting beat by better teams and now it is cheese to actually take out gens and omega. You cry too when people win by objectives in QP/GQ too?

Maybe you should learn to defend your base better?

You're totally wrong.

The skillcrows and skilldogs go wave 3 or 4. Lights go last. Also even if you say 'Drop heaviest first wave' there's always that jackass who drops his heavy wave 1 and his Kodiak wave 2, slowing the whole team down.

Learn2Crutch.

[Leone]

SmokeGuar, on 08 August 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

When I talk about gen rushing regarding IS, it is 12 man death ball that walks to turrets and gens and drops them, or tries.

Okay, just so you know, this isn't gen rushing. See, if they're death-balling upto your turrets and gens, it's because you let them. Either they wiped your first wave, and so believe they've already won, or you abandoned your objective, and they've already won.

Gen rushing is when you bypass mechs to clear gens.

Edit: Ah, gotcha. English can be so persnickety.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 09 August 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[SmokeGuar]

Lost in translation.

We are talking pretty much about the same thing, just using bit different words.

There are some differences between how units execute rushes.

One just gets feeling that some units practice this more and some wing it if needed.

[Carl Vickers]

Terrastras Rex, on 08 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

=D

No one is arguing about superior pilot skills. Count isnt even in those screenshots. ;D

He's super pro just like Darth Hotz! =D

I just think its funny that they have to research my quickplay stats, and then crossquote other threads where I clearly state "yay for the new guys!"

Am I not allowed to have an opinion on FP changes? or Gen rushes?

Are my opinions invalid?

Can I even post on these forums?

Maybe FP is dead cause you guys are dillholes. ;D

Compared to you, Hotz and the Count are pro, and always will be, skill gap.

Considering your opinions tend to flame Id say they are not valid.

You can post in these forums, but best you get someone to vet them before hand as you have a special talent for making friends and influencing people.

If you dont think that last line is an insult to everyone, perhaps you need to rethink some things.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 09 August 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Gen dunking is done clan side and blitzkrieg is a valid strategy. Just as delaying elite units as long as possible is. Such as the sacred band smashing the Spartan right in the battle of Thebes and using their weaker forces to hold up the elite Spartan left. All these strategies while maybe not "sporting" are completely valid and oftener used tactical strategies in warfare. In my opinion anything is fair game.

[Ironic Quark]

Terrastras Rex, on 07 August 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

IS has to gen rush to win. They suck.

CJF is getting better and better at stopping the gen rush every day tho.

Houses of the Inner Sphere, learn new tactics to avoid high sodium levels please. ;D

I have never rushed gens, but I have seen Timber Wolfs rushing gens. Maybe IS units have just started to repeat Clans' strategy? Or its just an old working way?

[Pat Kell]

Ironic Quark, on 10 August 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

I have never rushed gens, but I have seen Timber Wolfs rushing gens. Maybe IS units have just started to repeat Clans' strategy? Or its just an old working way?

Clans started bringing streak crows and eventually streak dogs purely in response to IS lights massing up and rushing gens. The best strategy we could come up with was to have 2-3 of these guys drop on every wave in order to try to catch these lights coming in. Rushing the gens have been around since the start of CW and was actually much much worse in the beginning. Seemed like all people wanted to do was run up and shoot a building...no cat and mouse, no smashing faces....boring as hech, bunch of cowards

[MischiefSC]

When FW started the light rush was real. Back in them old days we called it 'Community Warfare'.

[Revis Volek]

Lukoi Banacek, on 07 August 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

What's wrong with gen-rushing really? Valid tactic. Deal with it?

According to PGI it is not, which is why they have done so much to make it harder, like Turrets, Casings on the 0-Gens, putting a cover on Omega and the cannon.


PGI has said time and time again that isnt how they wanted to mode played. Same goes for hiding in your spawn and using the Dropship Aim bots as a 13th player on your team.

PGI has said time and time again they dont want the game played like this but time and time again they fail miserably at trying to stop it.

Playing a mode to win is not our fault i agree there. IF thats how your win thats how you play but its pretty lame IMO. We are here to fight each other, whats the point of the other team if we are just going to ignore them and rush? Might as well play against AI all together in defense mode if thats the case.

Dawnstealer, on 08 August 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

I'm guessing you've never been on the receiving end of the inevitable Timber Rush, which is basically unstoppable unless you KNOW it's coming.

This can be said for almost any mech in the game, 12 of the same mechs plays hell on targeting for starters.

TBR's arent the only mechs in the game which can gen rush, you are right.