233 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 09 August 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

I am going to call it Energy Draw or Ghost Heat 2.0, because those are what I am used to calling it.

Also who on earth gives a **** about the science or lore? If the lore actually mattered to this game then in reality this game may actually be worth playing. At least there would be substance.

I also don't see why calling it Energy draw bothers you. So what if it isn't the most technically correct? This is a video game where scientifically accurate things don't exist. In reality I would be able to hear the blasts on my armor on HPG Manifold Moon, and it would no be impaired.

In reality space is so freaking cold your heat on your mech would dissipate faster than crap.

In reality a mech would never be able to knock over a tree.|

In reality one good shot from a surface to air missile would blast through the armor of a mech like tinfoil.

Calling something by its "proper" terminology means bullocks when this is a series that prides itself on not being realistic or scientifically accurate in many many areas.

Sure, feel free to call it energy draw.

I am sure you would have no qualms if PGI introduced Aerospace fighters and called them "Combat trucks" because that's how dumb he name Energy Draw is.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 August 2016 - 02:33 PM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Sounds like Ghost Heat 2

[C E Dwyer]

I don't care what it's called, my only thoughts on the matter are

Will it make the game better, will it increase T.T.K.

F.F.S this game from its very roots has been a game where weapons have a range of less than 2 kilometers and are about as accurate as a smooth bore musket..or were until the computer game arrived.

I do think this system is as usual an over complicated P.G.I thing, as all they need to do is drop the heat thresh hold down, and a simple, instant reduction in alpha warrior and an increase in D.P.S warrior.

But at the end of the day how it plays is what counts, not what it's called

[Nightbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

Radiators on spacecraft function in a vacuum, radiation is simply the only method of heat transfer.

My line of thought is based on the greater the heat difference between the radiator surface and the ambient temperature the better the heat transfer.... holding the medium and radiator size constant. Passive fluid circulation work on space stations because very little heat needs to be dissipated and the radiators they install are huge. Consider the surface area you have to work with on mechs, and that the power/heat generated is proportional to modern fusion plants (which is enough to evaporate all the water you see from their stacks), and I realized that circulating fluids within small passive heatsinks doesn't cut it. You'd need massive heat pumps to increase the temperature differential between the heatsink and the outside as much as possible, maybe to the tune of hundreds of thousands if not millions of degrees.

[Y E O N N E]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 09 August 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

I am going to call it Energy Draw or Ghost Heat 2.0, because those are what I am used to calling it.

Also who on earth gives a **** about the science or lore? If the lore actually mattered to this game then in reality this game may actually be worth playing. At least there would be substance.

I also don't see why calling it Energy draw bothers you. So what if it isn't the most technically correct? This is a video game where scientifically accurate things don't exist. In reality I would be able to hear the blasts on my armor on HPG Manifold Moon, and it would no be impaired.

But...you can hear the hits in the game on HPG....

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In reality space is so freaking cold your heat on your mech would dissipate faster than crap.

False. You could be in daylight and thus be getting scalded. Even without that, vacuum precludes convective cooling processes, meaning the only way to cool off is by conducting the heat into the ground or radiating it out into space.

Radiating is not a fast process. You would be able to engage in combat with lasers and particle cannons for a few minutes and then spend the rest of the day cooling off. Perhaps the next couple of days, or week, depending on radiator surface area.

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In reality a mech would never be able to knock over a tree.

I dunno, 100 tons and lots of torque sounds like a broken tree to me.

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In reality one good shot from a surface to air missile would blast through the armor of a mech like tinfoil.

Probably, unless you accept a premise where defensive tech has outpaced offensive, which is why the most effective weapons tend to be saturation style.

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Calling something by its "proper" terminology means bullocks when this is a series that prides itself on not being realistic or scientifically accurate in many many areas.

I thought the original appeal of BT was that it had stompy robots in a more grounded setting that the creators took the time to explain. The pride was in its believability, not its ridiculousness.

Times have changed, we know more now. BT is due for an overhaul.

[Lyoto Machida]

LordNothing, on 09 August 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

unfortunately modern gaming is more about artificially boosting ones ego. realism just gets in the way of that.

Well, the same applies to social media like Instagram but that's neither here nor there...

[Escef]

Wolf Ender, on 09 August 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Ummm... is semantic the word you're looking for???

It autocorrected and I didn't catch it. Poo happens.

Honestly, this whole thread is about PP whining about the name of a mechanic and not the execution of its in-game function. It's one of the absolute dumbest things to start a fight about.

From now on, I will refer to "energy draw" as the "Peanut Butter & Jelly Power System". Because that will hopefully demonstrate how asinine this is.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FupDup, on 09 August 2016 - 02:16 PM, said:

How about Ghost Alpha?

Ghost Limit?

Ghost Cap?

Ghost aplha nerf

QQ alpha nerf

Tear nerf?

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 09 August 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

In reality space is so freaking cold your heat on your mech would dissipate faster than crap.

actually... I think that doesnt work because the heat needs a medium to pass through for that to actually work, so in a vacuum, there would be no transfer? I remember hearing that in a similar thread

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Heat travels through a vacuum by infrared radiation (light with a longer wavelength than the human eye can see). The Sun (and anything warm) is constantly emitting infrared, and the Earth absorbs it and turns the energy into atomic and molecular motion, or heat

http://helios.gsfc.n...v/qa_sp_ht.html

then again...

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[color="red"]Heat in Space[/color]
When I think of "heat," I think of the energy of atoms bouncing against each other or against a wall. The gas in space cannot be dense, so the chance of one atom bouncing against another seems to be zero, and there is no wall. How can there be heat?
Your question is a very interesting one, as it reveals a rather common misunderstanding of the meaning of "hot." First, your understanding of heat is indeed quite correct. Heat is in fact the average kinetic energy (or the energy of motion) of the individual atoms (or molecules) in a gas. The faster the atoms are on average, the higher their kinetic energy, and the hotter the gas is.
Now, there is an important distinction to be made between "a gas is hot" and "a gas contains a lot of heat." Any gas, whose atoms bounce around at high speed, is considered "hot." However, in order to contain lots of heat (i.e. lots of heat energy) the gas ALSO has to be dense, i.e. contain lots of atoms in each cm³. In this sense a gas in space, such as that of the solar corona with its 1-2 million degrees Kelvin (or 2-4 million Fahrenheit) or the solar wind, which stems from the hot solar corona, is quite "hot," when it comes into contact with a spacecraft it is not capable of transferring lots of heat energy, because it is such a thin gas. While the air we breathe contains approx. 4 * 10¹⁹ molecules/cm³, the solar wind only contains a few (typically 1-30) protons (the naked nuclei of H atoms) and a few electrons per cm³.

and

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[color="red"]The Cold of Space[/color]
NASA frequently refers to "the cold of space" and the extremes of temperature from the sunny side of the shuttle to the shaded side. If I remember my college physics and astronomy correctly, space is a vacuum. Doesn't a true vacuum have no temperature? It would seem that the only problem that the astronauts should have is getting rid of heat. The only form of heat dissipation would be radiational and that would not be enough to cool an astronaut in a space suit -- they must require some form of air conditioning. If I am incorrect, then how does a vacuum bottle keep things hot or cold?
You remember your college physics correctly. Space is a vacuum, and heat can only be exchanged through radiation. However, that is a quite powerful means of exchanging heat. Have you ever stood in front of a campfire on a very cold winter night? While facing the fire you may feel roasted in your face, while your back feels frigid. The fire radiates heat at you, and your back radiates heat into the cold night. Of course, the cold air around you plays a role, but if there is no wind, the major heat exchange is radiation.
In space this is turned to the extreme. Without any star or planet nearby the temperature of space (as defined by radiation) is 3 K (-270 centigrade), the temperature of the ubiquitous background radiation from the Big Bang, i.e. extremely cold indeed. A spacecraft is roasted on the side that faces the sun and very effectively cooled on the opposite side.
The amount of heat that a spacecraft radiates into space and receives from the Sun can be controlled by the makeup of its surface. And this is the second secret of the vacuum bottle (or thermos): while the vacuum suppresses heat exchanges by conduction and air convection, exchange by radiation is suppressed by the shiny metallic coating of the bottle. This shiny coating reflects the heat radiation like a mirror and keeps it either inside the bottle (if the content is hot) or outside (if the content is cold).

and

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[color="red"]How Does a Spacecraft Dissipate Heat?[/color]
If vacuum is used in thermos bottles to keep heat or cold from leaving, how can a spacecraft get rid of any excess heat or cold in the vacuum of space?
There are three ways of transferring heat: convective, diffusive, and radiative.

• Convection transfers heat by moving matter, usually a gas, around. A fan blowing on you is convective cooling.
  
• Diffusion is the transfer of heat through contact, like putting your hand on an ice cube.
  
• Radiative transfer uses photons (light or infrared photons) to transfer heat.

A thermos bottle gets rid of convective heating or cooling with a vacuum, and only a small amount of diffusion happens through the top and the glass wall. The silvering of the glass helps limit radiative heating or cooling. But the thermal radiation is ALWAYS there, and that is what a spacecraft uses. To get rid of heat, you can point thermal radiators at the dark sky, and to warm up you can point at the Sun or Earth. The Sun warms the Earth through radiation, not convection or diffusion.
Dr. Eric Christian

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 August 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Calling it Ghost Heat 2.0 is *much* more accurate than referring to it as energy draw. At least the term ghost heat implies something magical and not grounded in science or reality. It accurately describes the heat penalty. The term energy draw has absolutely no affiliation with the mechanic and how it works.

[Y E O N N E]

Escef, on 09 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

It autocorrected and I didn't catch it. Poo happens.

Honestly, this whole thread is about PP whining about the name of a mechanic and not the execution of its in-game function. It's one of the absolute dumbest things to start a fight about.

From now on, I will refer to "energy draw" as the "Peanut Butter & Jelly Power System". Because that will hopefully demonstrate how asinine this is.

It's QQ over its name in relation to its in-game function. It is not without merit. I mean, remember ghost damage? Yeah, that name had nothing to do with the mechanic, which cut the range and did nothing to the damage value.

Deliberately misleading labels are bad.

[Spartan 04]

Reno Blade, on 09 August 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Just think of the Gyroscope and myomers to require more power from the engine to compensate the recoil of ACs and Missiles and then you can use Energy Draw for all weapons.
Done

I have no comment on the new system because I have no idea what it implies. I do like speculating on in-universe explanations for shiat, though. Regarding the ghost heat in MWO/MW in general, I just assumed it had more to do the Mech's internal heat pumps being overwhelmed by too many of the same mode of heat dissipation at the same time:

Laser Ghost Heat: Too many radiative and high-electricity consumption devices being fired at once turns the whole inner and outer casing (and cables) hot from entropy losses and simultaneous power cable draw
Ballistic Ghost Heat: Propellant exhaust from too many sources overheats the hydraulic pumps and lines (which I assume would be integrated into the Mech itself) and recoil compensators
Missile Ghost Heat: Too many missiles fired at once causes too much heat build up from the simultaneous hot gas backwash.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

Please stop calling the new, upcoming heat penalty "Energy Draw" because it has nothing to do with drawing energy from a reactor. Operating the reloading mechanism of an AC/20 does not consume anywhere close to the amount of electrical power needed to fire two PPCs at once and accelerate those hydrogen nuclei to relativistic speeds.

Call it "Damage Cap"
Call it "Alpha Limit"

But, please, don't use the term Energy Draw anymore. It's not correct.

"Ghost Heat" is an accurate term because it describes phantom heat that comes from nowhere and should not exist.

Damage Cap or Alpha Limit are accurate terms that describe the function of this mechanic. There is no relationship between weapon damage and electrical consumption.

I made this thread so people stop fruitlessly speculating that this is a step toward adding more sim features such as electrical management.

ENERGY DRAW!! ENERGY DRAW ENERGY DRAW ENERGY DRAW!!!!!
https://youtu.be/X90qKQAMh8A?t=2m7s

[dervishx5]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

ENERGY DRAW!! ENERGY DRAW ENERGY DRAW ENERGY DRAW!!!!!
https://youtu.be/X90qKQAMh8A?t=2m7s

I was wondering if you got [REDACTED] again since you weren't posting earlier today, lol.

[Bishop Steiner]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

I was wondering if you got [REDACTED] again since you weren't posting earlier today, lol.

why would I? Blood Wolf and company are doing more than enough pointless spamming. If there's an actual interesting topic posted..... I might bother commenting (more than a little trolly snark anyhow, lol)

I'm liking spending my time on those OTHER Battletech Game forums..the ones where Devs actually read posts, interact respectfully with the players, etc.

This place is just SSDD, same hamster wheel of futility it's been for 4 years.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 August 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

why would I? Blood Wolf and company are doing more than enough pointless spamming. If there's an actual interesting topic posted..... I might bother commenting (more than a little trolly snark anyhow, lol)

I'm liking spending my time on those OTHER Battletech Game forums..the ones where Devs actually read posts, interact respectfully with the players, etc.

This place is just SSDD, same hamster wheel of futility it's been for 4 years.

Well, thank you for spending your time here in my humble thread.


Down with Energy Draw!

Long live Alpha Limit!

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 August 2016 - 03:05 PM.

[Lightfoot]

As I pointed out since closed beta, MWO's mechs are too weak, mitigate damage poorly. Instead of just making the mechs tougher they lower their damage output to Quake character levels with one nerf after another. Ghost heat, Gauss Rifle charge-up, slo-mo PPCs, AC20's, etc. Now "Energy Draw".

I don't think the mechs will ever feel armored at this point, but that is what they need most. Battlemechs are heavily armored robot fighting vehicles that fire their numerous weapons in volleys called group-fire. If they can't do that it's not MechWarrior.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

Well, thank you for spending your time here in my humble thread.


Down with Energy Draw!

Long live Alpha Limit!

Well, I figured yours was at least a NEW complaint vs the same ol same ol, lol. Besides I haven't Humperdinked anyone in ages.......

[Brain Cancer]

We could call it the Ghostheaters reboot.

[Gas Guzzler]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

Well, thank you for spending your time here in my humble thread.


Down with Energy Draw!

Long live Alpha Limit!

Was ape dong an autocorrect issue? Lmao.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I just don't understand why they never prorated damage to begin with.