521 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 08:20 AM, said:

Some people in some Assaults - esp. when not skilled/fully skilled Variant - will have Problems doing/maintaining that against a good Light Pilot .

Then it isn't a good protip, backing up against a wall has it's own issues if the enemy has JJs, generally they will just try to get height on you since most assaults have terrible pitch, which is just as bad. The best protip is to really just git gud at twist/turning or as people in my unit prefer to call it, wiggling.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Then it isn't a good protip, backing up against a wall has it's own issues if the enemy has JJs, generally they will just try to get height on you since most assaults have terrible pitch, which is just as bad. The best protip is to really just git gud at twist/turning or as people in my unit prefer to call it, wiggling.

Yes, shake your Atlas's dickbutt.

[Besh]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Then it isn't a good protip, backing up against a wall has it's own issues if the enemy has JJs, generally they will just try to get height on you since most assaults have terrible pitch, which is just as bad. The best protip is to really just git gud at twist/turning or as people in my unit prefer to call it, wiggling.

I didnt anticipate this conversation going the "mine is better" route tbh . But heh, you win, okay ?

Let me just say: you just switched the goalposts ( "if the enemy has JJs" ) to maintain your point . And even WITH JJs, its not always possible to get behind that enemy if he is up against sufficient cover . At any rate, a simple counterstrafe does not work anymore if yo do it .

For the Light to have to use its JJs to get behind you, is much more complex than simply running in circles around its Target, and really a different Situation than the one I was describing/referring to .

Nevertheless: ok, you win, yours is the best . Happy ?

Edited by Besh, 16 August 2016 - 08:38 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Let me just say: you just switched the goalposts ( "if the enemy has JJs" ) to maintain your point .

I did, but most of the meta lights have JJs for reasons like this, because being able to get out of areas or abuse vertical angles is important. Before the rescale, the only meta light without JJs was the Oxide, and it doesn't play like traditional lights (it's more like a medium).

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

And even WITH JJs, its not always possible to get behind that enemy if he is up against usfficient cover .

True, but very rare this is the case. It also depends on how many enemies are around him and whether you can get to his backside without getting shot by friendlies which is probably the best deterrent.

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

AT any rate, a simplecounterstrafe does not work anymore . For the Light to have to use its JJs to get behind you, is much more complex than simply running in circles around its Target, and really a different Situation than the one I was describing/referring to .

Nevertheless: ok, you win, yours is the best . Happy ?

Maybe, all I'm trying to say is that backing up to cover your back isn't always going to save you and isn't really a pro thing, it is what bads do when they don't know any better.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

dervishx5, on 16 August 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Unfortunately we live in a society that faults the lack of success not with the individual, but with society itself.

In the South, we call that "passing the buck."

[Besh]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I did, but most of the meta lights have JJs for reasons like this, because being able to get out of areas or abuse vertical angles is important. Before the rescale, the only meta light without JJs was the Oxide, and it doesn't play like traditional lights (it's more like a medium).


True, but very rare this is the case. It also depends on how many enemies are around him and whether you can get to his backside without getting shot by friendlies which is probably the best deterrent.


Maybe, all I'm trying to say is that backing up to cover your back isn't always going to save you and isn't really a pro thing, it is what bads do when they don't know any better.

*sigh*

Just no. Its got nothing to do with "what bads do if they dont know any better" . Also, "Meta Lights" ??? Allow me to frown on that...

Its one thing to disagree with someones opinion . To devaluate a perfectly fine tactical move which works pretty well in a lot of Situations for Pilots of any Skill lvl., and especially when having to deal with more than one opponent, for the sole puprose of adamantly trying to proove that someone's advise is BAD advise....is something else . Not to mention that you have moved away from the very specific Situation I was referring to totally - therefore making all your replies actually irrelevant in that regard .

I honestly dont know what to say to your conversation technique other than, have to make sure you are not only RIGHT, but also SUPERIOR ???

Edited by Besh, 16 August 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

*sigh*

Just no. Its got nothing to do with "what bads do if they dont know any better" . Also, "Meta Lights" ??? Allow me to frown on that...

Its one thing to disagree with someones opinion . To devaluate a perfectly fine tactical move which works pretty well in a lot of Situations for Pilots of any Skill lvl., and especially when having to deal with more than one opponent, for the sole puprose of adamantly trying to proove that someone's advise is BAD advise....is something else . Not to mention that you have moved away from the very specific Situation I was referring to totally - therefore making all your replies actually irrelevant in that regard

I lost my post due to forums being special but I will say this.

Backing up to a wall to prevent a light from out maneuvering you is a stop-gap solution for pilots. It works against light pilots who don't know how to get around it (provided it isn't the rare exception where you can't abuse height) or the few lights that don't have JJs. It still isn't going to get you very far, if a player really want's to git gud, they need to learn how to actually pilot an assault and learn how to counter turn/twist.

[Andi Nagasia]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

I lost my post due to forums being special but I will say this.

Backing up to a wall to prevent a light from out maneuvering you is a stop-gap solution for pilots. It works against light pilots who don't know how to get around it (provided it isn't the rare exception where you can't abuse height) or the few lights that don't have JJs. It still isn't going to get you very far, if a player really want's to git gud, they need to learn how to actually pilot an assault and learn how to counter turn/twist.

Usually a Assault should have an Escort, be it an ECM/AMS/Anti-Light Mech,
the worst thing for Assaults is to be left behind by the team, and it is the Teams Fault,
you never hear of Front line assaults getting Gimped by Lights Packs,

i usually only run 8armor on Rear STs and 10 on the CT,
even if your being circled their is a Tactic that can be used to Increase your Turning,
-
Turning following a Light(yes the light pilot will eventually out turn you)
then Quickly Twist the Other Way(Leg Movement) wail moving your arms(Mouse Movement) as well,
you will twist twice as fast and it reduce the time the Light has to get a back shot,
-
some times this will catch lights off Guard and they will try to slow and turn around,
it this happens remember the 3 Anti Light Rules(1)Legs (2)Legs (3)Legs,

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 August 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Usually a Assault should have an Escort

That's what the main body is for, generally. Ideally an assault should be positioned in the middle of the main body because being on a side tends to encourage lights to touch you in your nether regions but you aren't in the front taking all the focus damage either. Light mechs however should not be escorting (they should be doing the same thing the enemy lights are), if you really are worried about lights then a Streak mech should be pulling that duty.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Besh, on 16 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

I didnt anticipate this conversation going the "mine is better" route tbh . But heh, you win, okay ?

Let me just say: you just switched the goalposts ( "if the enemy has JJs" ) to maintain your point . And even WITH JJs, its not always possible to get behind that enemy if he is up against sufficient cover . At any rate, a simple counterstrafe does not work anymore if yo do it .

For the Light to have to use its JJs to get behind you, is much more complex than simply running in circles around its Target, and really a different Situation than the one I was describing/referring to .

Nevertheless: ok, you win, yours is the best . Happy ?

Running around in a light mech entails spamming JJ's and being erratic, if you arent using those tools then you really arent light mech-ing.

Eve mech without JJ's should be changing position all the time and moving in un predictable ways, using cover to spread dmg and even small ledges to move yourself in a vertical plane.


Also, lots of mechs backs can still be shot while they "THINK" they are up against a wall.


Hitboxes, its pays to know them.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 August 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

tt this happens remember the 3 Anti Light Rules(1)Legs (2)Legs (3)Legs,

Legs aren't always that optimal, it depends on your weapons.

For example torsos when you have PPCs and Gauss are often best against Cheetos and Janners because pitch can be an issue and the torso is normally easier to hit.

[Andi Nagasia]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

Legs aren't always that optimal, it depends on your weapons.

For example torsos when you have PPCs and Gauss are often best against Cheetos and Janners because pitch can be an issue and the torso is normally easier to hit.

True, it also depends on mech as well, Jenner=CT,

[Rushmoar]

JohnnyWayne, on 15 August 2016 - 02:58 PM, said:

I read some posts in this thread and came to the conclusion that all rank 1 players i saw said, that lights are too weak and the ACH is the only mech that is at an ok point.

I,ll go with this. And does it really matter if it is better then other lights.

First off, why can't light mechs play different rolls like sniper, brawler, harasser, etc.

Second, Cheetahs make better brawlers then snipers. Think sniper cheetahs are pretty bad. Ravens for example are nice snipers.

Third and most important. Mechs that do more damage make more c-bills. So blame PGI for the reward system we have and not the Cheetah. Only way for a light to farm money is to do the same thing an assault does to farm money.

Also if all the lights played the same way, this will be a very boring and stale game for the 35t and under crowd.

Edited by Rushmoar, 16 August 2016 - 03:44 PM.

[Drunken Skull]

That's assuming that the assault mech and the light mech both have a low ping, and that the Assault mech hasn't been left behind by nascar's.

What if the ping is horrible, and the light mech is proceeding to warp, and when I say warp I mean litterally disappearing on the left, re-appearing behind, then again vanishing to be on the right and so forth, with weapons fire and damage appearing from thin air?

What is the assault mech's best course of action then? Spray and prey? Simply shut down? Shut down and then exit the game? Or just power off the whole computer by removing the power cord? Attempting to break the keyboard in half maybe?

I have seen this a number of times recently, and not just with light mechs. In a recent game two of us were chasing down a lone surviving heavy that was only moderately fast, and it took a good 3 minutes for the direwolf and archer to kill him, the shot's simply weren't registering, and all the client was showing us was lag. We eventually legged and killed it, but it was quite the farce.

Speed tanking is a sketchy thing to balance and get right, especially where ping can vary from under 100 to over 500 seemingly randomly and at any time.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 16 August 2016 - 07:11 PM.

[RestosIII]

Drunken Skull, on 16 August 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

That's assuming that the assault mech and the light mech both have a low ping, and that the Assault mech hasn't been left behind by nascar's.

What if the ping is horrible, and the light mech is proceeding to warp, and when I say warp I mean litterally disappearing on the left, re-appearing behind, then again vanishing to be in front and so forth?

What is the assault mech's best course of action then? Simply shut down? shut down and then exit the game?, or just power off the whole computer by removing the power cord. Attempting to break the keyboard in half maybe?

Get a proper internet connection, maybe? Not run dial-up?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Drunken Skull, on 16 August 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

What if the ping is horrible, and the light mech is proceeding to warp, and when I say warp I mean litterally disappearing on the left, re-appearing behind, then again vanishing to be in front and so forth, with weapons fire and damage appearing from thin air?

You're moving goal posts, it sucks if any mech starts warping, not just lights.

[FupDup]

Ultimately, I think that the quote "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king" is relevant here.

The majority of the lights in MWO are blind.

The Arctic Cheetah is one-eyed.

Most mediums, heavies, and assaults are two-eyed.

Thus, when only looking at the light class in a vacuum, the Cheetah does appear to be the king...but when we look at the whole game, the picture changes greatly.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

I know EXACTLY what this thread needs:

Spoiler

[Drunken Skull]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

You're moving goal posts, it sucks if any mech starts warping, not just lights.

You referring to this goalpost here on the previous page? Exactly where did I move it to?

Drunken Skull, on 15 August 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

But I do see a situation here where an Assault mech can be hampered beyond the point it can even retaliate against a single light mech, let alone a wolf pack. The light mech is speed tanking at 150kph unhindered, the Assault mech has slowest movement and aiming in the game, exacerbating the effect of the speed tank, throw in some high ping, a pinch of Lag and warping for seasoning, and its a perfect Disaster Sou flee for the Assault. When High ping and warping is involved it truly has moved into the realm of "exploit". Some Skidding and Rough Terrain modifiers would be the perfect thing to "tone it down" a little, just saying.

Several people have posted about tactics to avoid light mechs doing the "circle of death" in a lone isolated assault, I'm just wondering what tactics exist for when high ping makes the "hard" impossible?

Drunken Skull, on 16 August 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

That's assuming that the assault mech and the light mech both have a low ping, and that the Assault mech hasn't been left behind by nascar's.

What if the ping is horrible, and the light mech is proceeding to warp, and when I say warp I mean litterally disappearing on the left, re-appearing behind, then again vanishing to be on the right and so forth, with weapons fire and damage appearing from thin air?

What is the assault mech's best course of action then? Spray and prey? Simply shut down? Shut down and then exit the game? Or just power off the whole computer by removing the power cord? Attempting to break the keyboard in half maybe?

Edited by Drunken Skull, 16 August 2016 - 08:23 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 16 August 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

I know EXACTLY what this thread needs:

Spoiler

This is not Spiderman...