819 replies to this topic

[RickDiasPK]

RavenKnight86, on 16 August 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Edit: Also I didn't know you were PGI staff and knew for a fact they were ignoring this topic now.

I know you were being silly, but I want to respond to this anyway: They aren't ignoring it. I just got done speaking with customer service, who... asked me to drop by the thread again to see Alex's remarks from about 13 or so pages back.

My opinion remained unchanged. The issue has been pointed out to PGI, they doubled down on their bad decision. Then they stood by it again upon asking me why I asked for a refund. That should explain it all.

So I got refunds for everything I legitimately could, then uninstalled MWO. This'll likely be my last post here since I'm now effectively an ex-customer, but see you all around I guess.

EDIT: One last thing before I go, since I noticed someone being all 'I'm a founder and I think you are being a whiner' a page or two back. I'm also a founder and I'm bailing on the game over this. So enough of you waving your founder status around as some kind of banner of authority.

Edited by RickDiasPK, 17 August 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[MovinTarget]

So basically, PGI should put disclaimers on all the various pages right now to the effect of:

"Purchasing this Mech/Pack/DooDad Prior to <insert appropriate date here> will not qualify the recipient for any possible loyalty rewards announced in the 2017 year. They can contribute to any applicable, unredeemed 2016 loyalty rewards, check here <insert link> for more details"

If they had done something like this from the beginning, perhaps people *might* have read it and *might* have thought about deciding the timing of their purchases... and if customers ignored that warning, then at least PGI could point to it later and say they tried to spell it out for them.

That doesn't resolve all the concerns voiced here, but honestly, since there is no way of knowing a year ago what the rewards would be and how people would qualify for them, I'm not sure how much more could be done... If they modify the Loyalty rewards now, they'll catch heat for doing so from those that plunked down money in the past week just to qualify and *that* would be more dangerous than what they have now because that would involve accusations of a true bait-n-switch with legal implications as opposed to right now it is more a public perception/trust issue (which wouldn't go away if they just caved to pressure either).

Because there was never any fine print that said "Purchase of the Hero mech for Pack X will contribute to your eligibility for our end-of-year loyalty rewards"

They made a decision about what qualifies and its rubbed peeps the wrong way and they'll have to live with the consequences. I only hope they learn from this.

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 August 2016 - 06:03 PM.

[mikerso]

PGI thanks for the easy way to check my eligibility on my profile content tab.

For those ranting about not getting the rewards, get over yourselves. Just because you bought season tickets doesn't mean your team has to win the super bowl.

I have played the game since right after the founders rewards. Got first year loyalty rewards. I barely missed year two top tier for ID, and couldn't afford Clans. This year I might qualify for both.

It would have been nice to get last year's top, but I didn't because of when I bought the packs. That is not PGI, but myself. This time I planned ahead.

It is not their fault you opened your wallets.

Either way thanks PGI for the freebies.

[Zordicron]

Here is my 2 cents as a (former) whale:

I don't care, I mean the mechs in question will see c-bill release down the road.

-The rewards are for people that spent real money on mechs.
-People that spent real money on mechs, more then likely have quite a few mechs- especially anyone that was part of last years loyalty program.
-When you have a lot of mechs, unless you are in some kind of OCD state, you are less inclined to go out of your way to aquire more mechs(loyalty ones) by spending real money on moe mechs.

In short, the long term whales, I dunno maybe I am alone here- the fire is gone from our bellies. I seriously had doubts when i clicked the link to check my eligibility if I was going to have the 100 matches played completed. I did, but I know for sure most of them were from the very earliest part of the qualifying date. Basically, I couldn't care if I got a reward mech or not, when I know if I like it I can just buy it for cbills later anyway. I am certainly NOT going to pick up a HGN 2C pack just because they offer a couple bonus mechs as a loyalty reward.


I mean look, the concept is good, and I am not complaining about the free stuff they hand out. However, I feel a lot of the angst in this thread and just in general in the playerbase stems less from feeling left out of a couple free mechs, but more a general sense of hopelessness the game will evolve into.... well anything. Despite the work done this year, despite the promises of things to come, it feels like it fell flat and frankly too many other low hanging fruits have come around the last few months.

PGI thinks they don;t have any competition for a Battletech/Mechwarrior game.
They are correct. Star Ocean has been a lot of fun though. Fallout 4's monochrome green HUD feels more like gritty Battletech then this Battletech FPS does. Uncharted 4 is breathtaking. I killed Handsome Jack, in HD, more times then I can remember. Final Fantasy 15 comes out in a few months. FF12 HD remake is slated for next year.

Maybe those aren't Mechwarrior. But they certainly have taken over my games time from PGI's stale rooty shooty robots game. Maybe Russ should think on that next time he wants to lord his monopoly sentiments over his players.

[ExAstra]

RickDiasPK, on 17 August 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

EDIT: One last thing before I go, since I noticed someone being all 'I'm a founder and I think you are being a whiner' a page or two back. I'm also a founder and I'm bailing on the game over this. So enough of you waving your founder status around as some kind of banner of authority.

I did it merely as a point to the people who are implying that (all) of us Founders are upset with this or that only "new" players are fine with it.
Or that only "new" players think some people are being entitled and whiny. I'm not waving it as a flag of authority, the people who are spewing the nonsense of "what about US FOUNDERS, where's OUR APPRECIATION?" are acting whiny and then trying to debase the arguments of others using seniority.

The argument falls apart by me being on the other side - hence the relevance.

Edited by ExAstra, 17 August 2016 - 07:18 PM.

[RavenKnight86]

Actually I never referenced Founders. I was referencing those long time whales who have been burnt out and are feeling betrayed that rewards are being given for just getting the C-bill add-on packs cause most long time buyers would rather get the heroes and reinforcements instead.

[Kaveli]

wish my marauder preorder would have counted for the IS top tier. it was done on 9/30/15....lame.

[Zuesacoatl]

RavenKnight86, on 16 August 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

Dee Eight, maybe instead of telling people to stop complaining you could learn to sympathize with those who have been here MUCH longer than you and spent possibly way more than you. I know my support of this game is probably way over what you spent and if I have a legitimate gripe about the loyalty stuff this year I should be able to express that on the Company's forums without some late comer telling me to stop complaining. And you know why they implemented early adopter's? To test the waters and see how packs would sell and give those who purchased early a little extra for funding the creation of the Mechs. I know personally the early adopter awards don't mean much to me nowadays as I already have enough Mechs, c-bills, Mechbays, and modules that the little bit they give with Early Adopter's sometimes isn't worth it.

Then hear it from someone that has been here since the beginning, let it go, get over it. You missed the boat, go buy something that qualifies you. Not that hard to understand. I am a founder, have spent a boat load of money, more than many would be comfortable with spending on a digital game, and just dropped another 80 to finish the qualifiers for these rewards. I understand what PGI is doing, and like my whale of a wallet has done before, i will support them with another round of spending. Frak, a bunch of man babies on these forums....

[ExAstra]

RavenKnight86, on 17 August 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Actually I never referenced Founders. I was referencing those long time whales who have been burnt out and are feeling betrayed that rewards are being given for just getting the C-bill add-on packs cause most long time buyers would rather get the heroes and reinforcements instead.

They're not betraying you.

All right - I'll try to be as clear as I can. I understand that you guys are bummed, irked, etc. I am a bit, too - I've illustrated that in earlier posts. I've spent a lot of money on this game and recently decided I'd close my wallet until the Mad Cat MkII comes out or the Nova Cat (no, Night Gyr isn't close enough). So I'm pretty bummed I'm not getting those two Summoners, or that ECM Stalker. Really, truly, bummed.

But PGI has already stated that they will take the feedback presented about this year's loyalty program and perhaps change the way the program is laid out next year. They can not and should not change the rules for this year, because they unfortunately boxed themselves into a corner. They released the qualifications and hundreds of people immediately upgraded standard packs to Collector packs in order to qualify. Changing the qualifications now to suit people like you (remember, AND ME!) would not be fair to those people. It would be a PR nightmare, Support would have a massive influx of work, it would just be bad.

They can't do anything about it this year - they can't make a situation where everyone wins.

And to be honest, their original mindset was not that hard to understand. They adopted some community advice from the last time. Yes, they have changed their release patterns since then and this rewards program doesn't necessarily reflect that accurately. But they want to reward people who paid top dollar for mechs. In this case, that means a lot of money for a few mechs, not a lot of money for a lot of mechs. You buy the standard+hero packages because they're a good deal - PGI wasn't planning on rewarding you for "getting a good deal". They wanted to reward those who paid a premium for the same product. That means the people who bought the Collectors packs, not the Standard+Hero. Dollar value is nearly the same, yes - that has been covered time and again in this thread.

Maybe, hopefully, next year PGI will consider a slight change in their rewards program. They have already said that it would at least be discussed. But whining (excuse the word if you find it insulting, I'm just honestly not sure what else to call what is going on in this thread) about not qualifying in this thread will accomplish nothing for you.

Speaking your mind and saying that you think the system should be different and is a little unfair is one thing. But saying that it's an underhanded scheme/ploy to drain more money out of people with dangling carrots is rude and unfair to the developers. This is a gesture of goodwill to the paying customers - not all games do stuff like this. I'd like them to continue doing it.
Edit: Accidentally double quoted you sorry

Edited by ExAstra, 17 August 2016 - 10:11 PM.

[RavenKnight86]

I never stated they betrayed anyone. I said some feel betrayed. There is a big difference between an actual betrayal and feeling that way, I know. However just because PGI said they are aware of how some people feel and MAY change it in the future shouldn't keep people from letting PGI know in an appropriate way on on their forums how they feel about this year's reward system.

Plus some could make the point that upgrading with hero and add-on's (which you would pay $50, $10 more than a Collector's pack) is about the same deal as upgrading to Collector's. I mean the premium time itself is worth $12, which then makes the cockpit items and C-bill mech worth less than $8, while just adding the Hero is $15.

Also I have never stated it is some underhanded ploy. I just keep merely trying to re-iterate every paying customer has a right to voice their opinion without being shouted down and told they are entitled. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about that concept?

Edited by RavenKnight86, 18 August 2016 - 03:38 AM.

[JaidenHaze]

MovinTarget, on 17 August 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

So basically, PGI should put disclaimers on all the various pages right now to the effect of:

"Purchasing this Mech/Pack/DooDad Prior to <insert appropriate date here> will not qualify the recipient for any possible loyalty rewards announced in the 2017 year. They can contribute to any applicable, unredeemed 2016 loyalty rewards, check here <insert link> for more details"

If they had done something like this from the beginning, perhaps people *might* have read it and *might* have thought about deciding the timing of their purchases... and if customers ignored that warning, then at least PGI could point to it later and say they tried to spell it out for them.

That would not have prevented the whole "Top Tier" problem most people claim they have. They get a Cataphract or Hellbringer for their purchase of any number of standard pack mechs, with or without any number of add-ons (Reinforcement or Hero). This wouldn't have changed a single thing.

PGI changed the way they structured Mech packs months after the last 2015 Loyalty Program, so there was no way they could have anticipated it and changing it in the middle would have resulted in a similar outcry, just by different people.

Kaveli, on 17 August 2016 - 08:56 PM, said:

wish my marauder preorder would have counted for the IS top tier. it was done on 9/30/15....lame.

About the Deadline: Most people dont understand that they could just wait. Anything you will preorder NOW will NOT count towards the 2017 Loyalty Program. Same as the last year with the Marauder. Also: You got your reward last year. There is no sorcery here. You got rewarded for your loyalty last year. If you want to preorder, for example, the Marauder IIC now, you have to choose. If you pre-order now, it will count in 2016 and you possible qualify for the pre-order bonus. Or you can order it after the 2016 loyalty program end, so it counts toward 2017, if they choose to do this again. There is no guarantee for that, you should keep that in mind.

[Dee Eight]

ExAstra, on 17 August 2016 - 10:10 PM, said:

But PGI has already stated that they will take the feedback presented about this year's loyalty program and perhaps change the way the program is laid out next year. They can not and should not change the rules for this year, because they unfortunately boxed themselves into a corner.

Not about the collector pack = top tier thing no, but they did in fact make ONE important change to this year's qualifications... they took comments about the Steam performance packs and added those to the MC reward qualifications. Maybe next year they'll include a seperate rewards for basic and top-tier steam pack buyers. The packs themselves are still enormous values though. so much so that I'm looking at getting a steam account and downloading the steam MWO just to buy the packs, linking them to my MWO account, and then uninstalling the steam version.

[Dee Eight]

RavenKnight86, on 18 August 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

Plus some could make the point that upgrading with hero and add-on's (which you would pay $50, $10 more than a Collector's pack) is about the same deal as upgrading to Collector's. I mean the premium time itself is worth $12, which then makes the cockpit items and C-bill mech worth less than $8, while just adding the Hero is $15.

Except... its the hero is merely an add-on as are the reinforcements. Its not basic+hero = another tier level + then you add reinforcements. Basic is one tier level, collector's is the top tier level. Hero and Reinforcments are the same add on items for both tier levels. And you may not view an (S) mech with custom camo as being worth it to a player but I myself happen to like them and use them, and it frees me to sell the non (S) version for c-bills.

[MovinTarget]

JaidenHaze, on 18 August 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

That would not have prevented the whole "Top Tier" problem most people claim they have. They get a Cataphract or Hellbringer for their purchase of any number of standard pack mechs, with or without any number of add-ons (Reinforcement or Hero). This wouldn't have changed a single thing.

I think I mentioned this:

MovinTarget, on 17 August 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

That doesn't resolve all the concerns voiced here, but honestly, since there is no way of knowing a year ago what the rewards would be and how people would qualify for them...

<stuff>

Because there was never any fine print that said "Purchase of the Hero mech for Pack X will contribute to your eligibility for our end-of-year loyalty rewards"

JaidenHaze, on 18 August 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

About the Deadline: Most people dont understand that they could just wait. Anything you will preorder NOW will NOT count towards the 2017 Loyalty Program. Same as the last year with the Marauder. Also: You got your reward last year. There is no sorcery here. You got rewarded for your loyalty last year. If you want to preorder, for example, the Marauder IIC now, you have to choose. If you pre-order now, it will count in 2016 and you possible qualify for the pre-order bonus. Or you can order it after the 2016 loyalty program end, so it counts toward 2017, if they choose to do this again. There is no guarantee for that, you should keep that in mind.

MovinTarget, on 17 August 2016 - 05:55 PM, said:

"Purchasing this Mech/Pack/DooDad Prior to <insert appropriate date here> will not qualify the recipient for any possible loyalty rewards announced in the 2017 year. They can contribute to any applicable, unredeemed 2016 loyalty rewards, check here <insert link> for more details"

If they had done something like this from the beginning, perhaps people *might* have read it and *might* have thought about deciding the timing of their purchases... and if customers ignored that warning, then at least PGI could point to it later and say they tried to spell it out for them.

Its called "fine print" and lots of companies use it to cover their @$$, PGI should too...

The choice of name "top tier" is very misleading in this case, yes it applied to packs in the past more clearly but comparatively, the "top tier" Marauder, etc would be Base + Hero + Collectors, not a subset. They have not shared their logic in their decision, nor are they obligated.

So I am curious, did anyone actually buy things over the course of the year *specifically* to qualify for loyalty rewards that weren't even announced?

A lot of the furor seems to be based on, "My choices did not qualify me for free stuff that no one knew about at the time I made my choices." And I am really not trying to be snarky, I am just trying to understand the anger when this is something no one could anticipate (unless you *knew* for a fact there would be loyalty rewards at all) and its basically free stuff you now want that you didn't know existed a little over a week ago...

[JaidenHaze]

MovinTarget, on 18 August 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

The choice of name "top tier" is very misleading in this case, yes it applied to packs in the past more clearly but comparatively, the "top tier" Marauder, etc would be Base + Hero + Collectors, not a subset. They have not shared their logic in their decision, nor are they obligated.

Thats because you compare to different things here. Right now, its not "good" to have just 2 "tiers" and as many addons. I know it may be misleading but the packs and add-ons are two seperate things. I think a clearer separation would be better, so its not just 2 columns full of options.

But that doesnt change the fact that we have two tiers and to qualify for Top Tier, you have to get 2x the small pack (CE of single Mech packs) or one big pack (Origins, Resistance and so on).

And what you name "top tier" with CE+Hero+Reinforcement(s) could be named Ultimate Tier for the next year. Such as buy X number of Ultimate Tier backs and get ALL THIS for free.

But then again, its a different package. Top Tier only says, you have to get the highest pack. CE is the highest pack. Ultimates are just bundles that combine the CE PACK and all ADD-ONs. Basically, is saves you time.

[C E Dwyer]

Argond, on 15 August 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

PGI has profit if player purchase ANY type of product. Some players purchase nothing.
80 USD are the 80 USD and not depends from what kind of pixels was sold =/

I pre-ordered Phoenix Hawk collectors pack because of camo, but not all packs have (S) variant camo too nice to upgrade pack.

Incorrect, even the base product costs money to produce, they have to sell a bottom line number to break even, and then anything over that number is profit, how many over the break even mark have to be sold to accutally make them worth producing, has to be higher than the base line.

They might sell ten over the break even line, for profit, but it's certainly not enough to make the profit margine 'worth it' and we'll never know what that figure is.

Like wise the special camo cost time and man, well as it's Lauren doing the work Woman hours, or to be PC production hours.
If none buy, or enough units aren't sold, making that camo, will effect the break even base line. and the over all profit, this all figures into the reasons P.G.I chose this way.

[MovinTarget]

JaidenHaze, on 18 August 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

Thats because you compare to different things here. Right now, its not "good" to have just 2 "tiers" and as many addons. I know it may be misleading but the packs and add-ons are two seperate things. I think a clearer separation would be better, so its not just 2 columns full of options.

But that doesnt change the fact that we have two tiers and to qualify for Top Tier, you have to get 2x the small pack (CE of single Mech packs) or one big pack (Origins, Resistance and so on).

And what you name "top tier" with CE+Hero+Reinforcement(s) could be named Ultimate Tier for the next year. Such as buy X number of Ultimate Tier backs and get ALL THIS for free.

But then again, its a different package. Top Tier only says, you have to get the highest pack. CE is the highest pack. Ultimates are just bundles that combine the CE PACK and all ADD-ONs. Basically, is saves you time.

Bottom line is, yes, they need to be clearer about how things work.

Cathy, on 18 August 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

Incorrect, even the base product costs money to produce, they have to sell a bottom line number to break even, and then anything over that number is profit, how many over the break even mark have to be sold to accutally make them worth producing, has to be higher than the base line.

They might sell ten over the break even line, for profit, but it's certainly not enough to make the profit margine 'worth it' and we'll never know what that figure is.

Like wise the special camo cost time and man, well as it's Lauren doing the work Woman hours, or to be PC production hours.
If none buy, or enough units aren't sold, making that camo, will effect the break even base line. and the over all profit, this all figures into the reasons P.G.I chose this way.

This is why I suspect the Collectors packs are their "top tier" for the single mechs. It represents the least additional work (a camo) for another $20. Hero is only $15 ahd has new camo and geo...

[RavenKnight86]

But here's the thing so many are missing (though in fairness they are admittedly new to this game), in previous years all Mech Packs were tiered in such a way that the highest tier included all Mechs in that pack. So if I was to buy Resistance 2 the Top Tier would have been the Mauler package and included a total of 12 Mechs for $80 (or 16 if you snagged the Early Adopter rewards). However this year the rewards are for 2 $40 packs which gives you a total of 8 Mechs (two which are duplicates), while someone could spend $555 for every pack sold this past year on basic packs, heroes, and add-ons and not qualify for the Top Tier but someone who has spent a measly (in comparison) $160 would qualify for everything. This math right here is where so much angst is coming from. I mean a few people have even posted here they have cancelled every pre-order they have and don't plan on pre-ordering in the future. A company as small as PGI can not afford to lose long time customers over an oversight on their part.

[Thomas G Wolf]

Customer Appreciation Rewards MY arse!

I have been a loyal supporter of this game from the beginning, from the Leg founders pack to the last IS pack plus all the Mechs pack I bought the lot, the only thing which I refuse to by are the Top new packs because I do not like getting screwed over by PGI (I DO NOT NEED THE SAME FRIGGING MECH TWICE it is not worth 20$ PERIOD) so I get none of the big Rewards, even though I have bought the hero mechs for my packs, ok then PGI as of Today my wallet is closed to you as I feel not the slightest bit of appreciation from you.
If you had had the common deciency to reward loyalty and had been fair eonough to allow the Hero mechs to count towards the BIG Rewards I might have stayed on and spent money here but now I just feel cheated, well done guys you lost one of yours whales, (PS I have OVER 2 years worth of preium time and enough mechs to never have to spend another cent here so stop treating you older customers like dirt and a few might actually stay)

[CyanEyd]

I for one am delighted by this, as I love free stuff! More so, because apparently I qualify for a Hellbringer with a fantastic load out! Feel free to thrown in a couple of Supply Cache Keys, PGI!
More than a few of my fellow Mechwarrior have expressed that more balanced game play would be preferable to all these gifts....I think the balance between lights and assaults could be tweaked. Should it be so easy for some hotshot in a Locust to circle a Kodiak continously and take him out without sustaining any damage to the light?