367 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

5100 is "nearing", wow such lol xD

Edited by Lily from animove, 14 August 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[RavensScar]

pyrocomp, on 14 August 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

To speak frankly, the Kodiak is not the top mech and most probably won't be nerfed.

The few top players make it look like that, but the best for average player are Warhawk and Mauller. Take a look at drop-off of the score curves, extrapolate a bit and Kodiak gets to like 7th place somwhere at the hands of 300th ranked player near. The 100 tonners actually make a very tight group there (surprisingly as other weights are reaaly devised). So the Kodiak has its merits, but they are most probably hard to master. Or its buids are less easy to use. Not sure. There is no variant/buid breakdown available.

But. Results of this event show two interesting things. All weights of the assault mechs may do good and are comparable in terms of scoring system presented. Assaults are divided into two unequal groups: 'doing fine' and 'kill me please'. This is even more emphasised if the first 25 players on each chassis are excluded from the sample.



So I'd refrain from saying that Kodiak is really OP. It has something marginally better than other Assaults. What is that something, I cannot tell.


EDIT: typos

This is a great analysis, but an additional factor that it doesn't consider is the fact the Kodiak isn't yet out for CB. This implies that there will be (far?) fewer players in Kodiaks. As pointed out, this could lead to a score inflation at the top end (personally not convinced) but it could also lead to a more rapid drop-off - ie. a steeper curve.

[Aresye]

Teer5, on 13 August 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Is it theorethically possible to reach 9000?

It is theoretically possible.

You just need to get 12 solo kills, win + survive, and do a minimum of 2400 damage for each of your 10 matches.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

pyrocomp, on 14 August 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

But. Results of this event show two interesting things. All weights of the assault mechs may do good and are comparable in terms of scoring system presented. Assaults are divided into two unequal groups: 'doing fine' and 'kill me please'. This is even more emphasised if the first 25 players on each chassis are excluded from the sample.



So I'd refrain from saying that Kodiak is really OP. It has something marginally better than other Assaults. What is that something, I cannot tell.

Just looking at the graph it is obvious that one line has completely separated itself from the pack.

How far above everything else does it need to be to be considered "OP"

I'm not sure how you can lump the kodiak in with the other 'doing fine' mechs.

[pyrocomp]

The Nerf Bat, on 14 August 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Just looking at the graph it is obvious that one line has completely separated itself from the pack.

How far above everything else does it need to be to be considered "OP"

I'm not sure how you can lump the kodiak in with the other 'doing fine' mechs.

Ignore left side - it's a region of a few. Look on the right side where all those average players are.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

pyrocomp, on 14 August 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Ignore left side - it's a region of a few. Look on the right side where all those average players are.

He ignored the 1st 25
You want to ignore the first 225?

Ignore enough facts then any point becomes valid.

[pyrocomp]

The Nerf Bat, on 14 August 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

He ignored the 1st 25
You want to ignore the first 225?

Ignore enough facts then any point becomes valid.

Ahem. I ignored first 25.
And anything to the left matter only if you are capable of getting into the leadearboard or anywhere close. So, yep, it is not that OP. If it is OP you can grab one and blast everything into the oblivion.

[Drunken Skull]

Ignorance is bliss...

[Tarl Cabot]

Hit the Deck, on 14 August 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Ideally, all those curves should converge to a point at infinity. The higher scorers ('Mechs) have naturally more slope.

Anomalies of curves with far greater slope (high standard deviation) could indicate that their players are less competitive with each other or there are simply less people who play those 'Mechs.

It's interesting that there seem to be two distinct groups.

Then the weapons should be balanced and not the platform ('Mechs).

Isn't that what happened with the Highlander/Victor?

ERPPC//AC velocities crippled, most AC ranges changed from 3x to 2x / Velocities sliced away/Gauss Rifle Charge timer, cockpit shakes then JJ minor change then it saw a major castration, not a small snip but "Hey, calf fries!!!".

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 15 August 2016 - 05:12 PM.

[Davers]

JC Daxion, on 13 August 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:

This quote reminds me of all the people that said the timber was balanced for years... then got its nerfs, and is still a top
mech, but no where near as OP as it once was

Why even go back that far? When the Kodiac was broken and firing 4 UAC 10s with no ghost heat people claimed it wasn't broken, just a "good mech".

[Quintus Verus]

Well just to throw a wrench in the tournament scores. There is someone leading a chassis that opened their account on August 11th, which means its someone that started a new account just to farm tier 5's. I haven't gone through every top 10, but I be surprise if their weren't more. I recognize the perennial top 25 folks, so I like to check out names that come out of the blue.

Edited by Quintus Verus, 14 August 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Mad Strike]

Good job ******* , now everyone will pick Kodiaks.

[MOBAjobg]

I'm so sure that S3B is kaffeangst.

I'd seen before in one of my solo T1 public quick game that Victoria Seymore had dealt damage in access of 1800.

It has been mentioned that VictoriaSeymore = LORD KAFFEANGST ggclose™.

So, it's possible to achieve better score in T2 to T3 and much higher score in T4 to T5 games.

By the way, I'm #84 with a score of 2899 if anybody is wondering and does not intend to improve my position.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 14 August 2016 - 08:25 PM.

[process]

The event is a perfect storm for the Kodiak, probably the KDK-3 specifically:

• XL400, making it faster than other 100 tonners and similarly armed assaults.
  
• Dakka builds for maximum DPS, in the right hands and situations better than laser boats.
  
• Lots of meat everywhere for score padding.

Considering the KDK-3 doesn't have any substantive quirks, I don't see how it could be nerfed. If anything its performance is an argument for decoupling engine size from agility.

Edited by process, 14 August 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Lily from animove, on 14 August 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

5100 is "nearing", wow such lol xD

Yep and Battlemaster at 4,688 and 15 tons lighter.

[kesmai]

Grats kaffe, well done.
Now go for the Victor for the next days and show it to us!

[Dee Eight]

The scoring isn't to do with a particular mech, but the wholesale group queue farming actions of selected players. Remember its not damage or match score being counted, but kills...and not just killing blows...but solo KMDD kills. 150 damage is a mere 10 points. Winning the match is 10 points (5 for losing), Surviving is 10 (dying is 5). Killing blows and assists are equal...10 points each. But Solo kills are 30 and KMDD are 20...and its a best 10 games total. So to break 5k, you're averaging 500 points per game.

When becomes MORE amusing is when you use the leaderboard function to look up the players...many are accounts with very few games played. So either its cheating via aimbots or farming of willing targets, or PGI expects folks to believe that someone puts up 10 MIRACULOUS one-a-year type games, 10 times, in a row, in only a few hours of play. That S3B fellow leading the kodiak board...when I first noticed him on top, it was a score of 4425, and he had 12 total games... 10 wins, 2 losses, 52 kills, 1 death. By the time he got to the current 5157 score he was at 24 wins, 3 losses, 100 kills and 5 deaths. He's now played another 14 games and 10 were wins, and 37 more kills and 5 more deaths. No change in the total score so either he's trying to increase the total, or he's going for another mech scoreboard. But think about the 4425 mark.... 10 wins out of 12...with 52 kills... that's 5.2 kills per game, in matches where presumably they're NOT all morons on the other team, every time. 52 Solo KMDD Killing Blows is 3120 pts. 10 survival wins is 200 pts. Damage total needed to account for the other 1105 pts is 16,875... in ten games. Now think about what was needed to increase the total by 700 points.

There were some folks in the last event from the same world champ team, who were top 5 on multiple mechs, with ridiculously high scores similar to numbers we're seeing out of the kodiaks, several on the same mech. Emailing PGI doesn't seem to have made any difference because they're right back at it in this event.

I had one game yesterday, I was in the basement of the HPG... tucked into a corner in a dark coloured mech... a dire wolf walks in, turns 110 degrees to his left right into me, and one-shot with a LBX-10 and 20 combined, blows my head off. As I am spectating my team goes up 5 kills to 2...then Mr. Dire comes along and caps six of them the same way...end of the game he had 7 kills, 2 assists, only 436 damage done, and as many headshots as most players achieve in a 3 month span, he does in one game. I emailed PGI with screen caps...again...lord knows if they'll actually do anything about it.

Edited by Dee Eight, 14 August 2016 - 11:03 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Dee Eight, on 14 August 2016 - 10:54 PM, said:

The scoring isn't to do with a particular mech, but the wholesale group queue farming actions of selected players. Remember its not damage or match score being counted, but kills...and not just killing blows...but solo KMDD kills. 150 damage is a mere 10 points. Winning the match is 10 points (5 for losing), Surviving is 10 (dying is 5). Killing blows and assists are equal...10 points each. But Solo kills are 30 and KMDD are 20...and its a best 10 games total. So to break 5k, you're averaging 500 points per game.

When becomes MORE amusing is when you use the leaderboard function to look up the players...many are accounts with very few games played. So either its cheating via aimbots or farming of willing targets, or PGI expects folks to believe that someone puts up 10 MIRACULOUS one-a-year type games, 10 times, in a row, in only a few hours of play. That S3B fellow leading the kodiak board...when I first noticed him on top, it was a score of 4425, and he had 12 total games... 10 wins, 2 losses, 52 kills, 1 death. By the time he got to the current 5157 score he was at 24 wins, 3 losses, 100 kills and 5 deaths. He's now played another 14 games and 10 were wins, and 37 more kills and 5 more deaths. No change in the total score so either he's trying to increase the total, or he's going for another mech scoreboard.

There were some folks in the last event from the same world champ team, who were top 5 on multiple mechs, with ridiculously high scores similar to numbers we're seeing out of the kodiaks, several on the same mech. Emailing PGI doesn't seem to have made any difference because they're right back at it in this event.

Says the person with many thousands of games under his belt but is tier 4. What you are prolly seeing is a tier 1 player doing up an alt, spending $20 on kodiaks and farming lower tier players to get to the top of the leader board.

Why can this happen, cause PGI made it so.

[Navid A1]

While we have players that can pull such scores even in solo queue,
I agree that group queue and alt accounts are kinda giving us unrealistic numbers.

We have had that in the past during a faction play leaderboard event, where 1 player used sync-group drops to farm unbeilivable scores.
People noticed and PGI removed the guy from the boards.

[Joey Tankblaster]

pyrocomp, on 14 August 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

To speak frankly, the Kodiak is not the top mech and most probably won't be nerfed.

The few top players make it look like that, but the best for average player are Warhawk and Mauller. Take a look at drop-off of the score curves, extrapolate a bit and Kodiak gets to like 7th place somwhere at the hands of 300th ranked player near. The 100 tonners actually make a very tight group there (surprisingly as other weights are reaaly devised). So the Kodiak has its merits, but they are most probably hard to master. Or its buids are less easy to use. Not sure. There is no variant/buid breakdown available.

But. Results of this event show two interesting things. All weights of the assault mechs may do good and are comparable in terms of scoring system presented. Assaults are divided into two unequal groups: 'doing fine' and 'kill me please'. This is even more emphasised if the first 25 players on each chassis are excluded from the sample.



So I'd refrain from saying that Kodiak is really OP. It has something marginally better than other Assaults. What is that something, I cannot tell.


EDIT: typos

This graph is not very reliable since most of it shows extrapolated data. Second, the event is still running.

What we should look on is the data we have and this is just 75 players per chassis. When you do this you might see one particuar mech that outshines all others by a huge margin.

Edited by Joey Tankblaster, 14 August 2016 - 11:06 PM.