58 replies to this topic

[FrontGuard]

TKSax, on 15 August 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

PGI has said Solaris will not happen until the upgrade/change the game engine. So until we are on Cry5/Unreal4 no solaris.

Personally, I hated the free for all that was MWLL Solaris. I would prefer to see 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 team battles to be parts of Solaris.

This is what I really want also, 1v1, 2v2...
that way there is no chance of teams forming, even though temporary, and truly solo people never have a chance.
Also the outcome would be very straight forward with little room for claiming cheating or the like.

[Spleenslitta]

TKSax, on 15 August 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

PGI has said Solaris will not happen until the upgrade/change the game engine. So until we are on Cry5/Unreal4 no solaris.

Personally, I hated the free for all that was MWLL Solaris. I would prefer to see 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 team battles to be parts of Solaris.

I kinda hated it too. But it was not the gamemode. It was those open maps.
I want some actual cover and cool looking arena rather than all that flat open space.
An arena balanced so that both long and short range weapons are usefull in as close to equal measurements as possible.

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 15 August 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Does 24man Last Man Standing = Hide and go seek for Mechs? Seriously the last man standing would also be the Last Man To Come Out Of Hiding And Shoot That Other Guy Who Was Fighting

That is where map and game design come in.

But having said that, I want the most underhanded tactics anyone could ever dream of to be allowed as long as they are within the defined rule sets. May the chaos be epic.

[Mystere]

FrontGuard, on 15 August 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

... that way there is no chance of teams forming, even though temporary, and truly solo people never have a chance.

But that is the best part. Just imagine, players will be making on the spot temporary alliances of convenience, but knowing fully well that the inevitable betrayal will come. As such, the decision one has to make is when, where, and how to back stab your "ally". <maniacal >

[Templar Dane]

I want 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 etc

[Spleenslitta]

Templar Dane, on 15 August 2016 - 11:48 AM, said:

I want 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 etc

I have heard something that might become a problem with that. Someone said it would take up a tremendous amount of bandwith or whatever.
Something about the servers becoming overburdened because of more seperate matches going on at the same time with the same amount of players.

Got no idea if it's true. I'm not even close to being an expert on such matters.

[FrontGuard]

Mystere, on 15 August 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

But that is the best part. Just imagine, players will be making on the spot temporary alliances of convenience, but knowing fully well that the inevitable betrayal will come. As such, the decision one has to make is when, where, and how to back stab your "ally". <maniacal >

Yes, I see your point totally... and for you guys who are fast thinkers and can make or break an alliance that quickly you deserve credit. unfortunately I have no such advanced social skill and I would be the dude you gang up on and make quick work of. just have to be honest. One thing I can say for sure is I would totally enjoy 1v1 tournaments. To me nothing is more exciting than a duel.

[roboPrancer]

There could be a couple ways to achieve in a FFA. Realistically you should get points for damage dealt, definitely kills/kills secured, and survival. I think that only giving the glory to the highest achiever in 12 man FFA is thinking too narrowly.

[TheArisen]

FrontGuard, on 15 August 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

not necessary... just have everyone show up on radar.
in other words no hiding possible.

Hmm that could make it extra hard to be stealthy.

[Jackal Noble]

We won't.

[LordNothing]

first of all solaris should just be qp. just make some solaris themed modes and maps. you might have to make voting 2 stage (mode then map instead of both at once), since some maps wouldnt be available in certain modes and vise versa. as for modes:

4v4v4v4v4v4 lance free for all / last lance standing. with or without respawn (deck based). to prevent hiding, all inactive players are revealed on map. this could also be 8v8v8.

dual tourny. it would have 4 rounds single elimination with winners moving to the next round: 12 duals -> 6 duals -> 3 duals -> 3 player ffa. duals happen in parallel in walled off arenas on a single map, single server instance. i figure 5 minutes a round, if no death then highest health % wins. uses a drop deck, one mech per round, use in any order. your rewards go up for each level you survive into. if you are eliminated you may stay in the game and make cbill bets on remaining rounds.

dual tourny would also have an insane mode where instead of the lowest damage moving on and spawning in a new arena with a fresh mech, the walls are simply removed and the sub arenas merged, and any still alive players have to duke it out. this version only allows one mech, so rolling damage is essential to victory. i expect this to promote underhandedness like people sitting out a dual to double team the survivors of the next.

survival, this would be the pure free for all mode. deck based respawn. last one with a mech wins. afks and hiders will be revealed. perhaps also have a limited respawn version with a deck.

ffa. unlimited respawns (either deck based or lets you choose from your entire inventory). hiders will be revealed. i kind of think this should be a constant running server with a map rotation. you can join and leave at will. its pretty much quake with mechs. it would be kind of its own bucket, and will allocate as many servers as needed to meet demand. but its kind of an instant access mode. but its dynamic and makes use of the available players, even if there is just 4 guys on one server. no opportunity wastage like in other modes that make you wait for a match maker or other players.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 August 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[Peter Townsend]

SmoothCriminal, on 15 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Correct - would only work with respawns...

Another reason not to have solaris

[Aresye]

Unpopular opinion time:

IMO, Solaris should be the dedicated competitive mode for MWO, built similarly in structure to the competitive modes found in other games, such as CS:GO or Overwatch.

Joke all you want about how this game is already "arena shooter esports catering BS," but the fact of the matter is...it isn't. There is absolutely nothing competitive about Quick Play or Faction Warfare, which is why we have community managed leagues such as MRBC, RHoD, MWA, NBT, etc.

The problem is there just isn't enough diehard competitive players to promote 12v12 gameplay. That's why the 12man queue failed. Hell, it's hard enough managing 8v8 for MWOWC, with the majority of teams having already dropped due to being unable to manage the completely unrealistic schedule that was expected of them.

It also contributes to why group queue is such a crap fest. Want to play with your buddy and try to get him into the game? Too bad, you're going up against SJR, Lords, EmP, etc. multiple games in a row, because nobody is available to scrim them, they don't have enough to do private matches, and they sure as hell ain't waiting 30+ minutes for a Faction Play match. The end result is a situation that nobody enjoys.

Solaris though, is literally the perfect opportunity to implement an ACTUAL competitive mode for MWO, while simultaneously remaining lore friendly.

Smaller teams (5v5 or 6v6 would be perfect), better matchmaking (easier to group similarly sized groups and skill levels when the MM only has to worry about 5 or 6 players), less tryhards in public queue (most of them would prefer to play Solaris), and it gives an actual "realistic" platform that PGI could branch into esports with (if done well).

IMO, the worst thing PGI could do with Solaris would be to turn it into "Casual Queue #4." Yes, it should be available to solo players as well, but with the caveat that they understand they are expected to play as a team, and try their absolute best to win.

Sorry to **** on those who hope Solaris will be an immersive, lore-based experience, but let's be honest here. FW is what was supposed to be the immersive, RP mode. If immersion is needed (and it desperately is), then FW should be improved to satisfy that crowd, not "try again" with a completely new, separate mode, and continue to leave nothing for competitive players other than 3rd party leagues.

[TheArisen]

LordNothing, on 15 August 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

first of all solaris should just be qp. just make some solaris themed modes and maps. you might have to make voting 2 stage (mode then map instead of both at once), since some maps wouldnt be available in certain modes and vise versa. as for modes:

4v4v4v4v4v4 lance free for all / last lance standing. with or without respawn (deck based). to prevent hiding, all inactive players are revealed on map. this could also be 8v8v8.

dual tourny. it would have 4 rounds single elimination with winners moving to the next round: 12 duals -&gt; 6 duals -&gt; 3 duals -&gt; 3 player ffa. duals happen in parallel in walled off arenas on a single map, single server instance. i figure 5 minutes a round, if no death then highest health % wins. uses a drop deck, one mech per round, use in any order. your rewards go up for each level you survive into. if you are eliminated you may stay in the game and make cbill bets on remaining rounds.

dual tourny would also have an insane mode where instead of the lowest damage moving on and spawning in a new arena with a fresh mech, the walls are simply removed and the sub arenas merged, and any still alive players have to duke it out. this version only allows one mech, so rolling damage is essential to victory. i expect this to promote underhandedness like people sitting out a dual to double team the survivors of the next.

survival, this would be the pure free for all mode. deck based respawn. last one with a mech wins. afks and hiders will be revealed. perhaps also have a limited respawn version with a deck.

ffa. unlimited respawns (either deck based or lets you choose from your entire inventory). hiders will be revealed. i kind of think this should be a constant running server with a map rotation. you can join and leave at will. its pretty much quake with mechs. it would be kind of its own bucket, and will allocate as many servers as needed to meet demand. but its kind of an instant access mode. but its dynamic and makes use of the available players, even if there is just 4 guys on one server. no opportunity wastage like in other modes that make you wait for a match maker or other players.

I'm not a big fan of respawns, a whole new level of complexity would be brought on because PGI would have to have a system to keep an individual's/team's respawn safe.

[Dread Render]

Aresye, on 15 August 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Unpopular opinion time:

IMO, Solaris should be the dedicated competitive mode for MWO, built similarly in structure to the competitive modes found in other games, such as CS:GO or Overwatch.

Joke all you want about how this game is already "arena shooter esports catering BS," but the fact of the matter is...it isn't. There is absolutely nothing competitive about Quick Play or Faction Warfare, which is why we have community managed leagues such as MRBC, RHoD, MWA, NBT, etc.

The problem is there just isn't enough diehard competitive players to promote 12v12 gameplay. That's why the 12man queue failed. Hell, it's hard enough managing 8v8 for MWOWC, with the majority of teams having already dropped due to being unable to manage the completely unrealistic schedule that was expected of them.

It also contributes to why group queue is such a crap fest. Want to play with your buddy and try to get him into the game? Too bad, you're going up against SJR, Lords, EmP, etc. multiple games in a row, because nobody is available to scrim them, they don't have enough to do private matches, and they sure as hell ain't waiting 30+ minutes for a Faction Play match. The end result is a situation that nobody enjoys.

Solaris though, is literally the perfect opportunity to implement an ACTUAL competitive mode for MWO, while simultaneously remaining lore friendly.

Smaller teams (5v5 or 6v6 would be perfect), better matchmaking (easier to group similarly sized groups and skill levels when the MM only has to worry about 5 or 6 players), less tryhards in public queue (most of them would prefer to play Solaris), and it gives an actual "realistic" platform that PGI could branch into esports with (if done well).

IMO, the worst thing PGI could do with Solaris would be to turn it into "Casual Queue #4." Yes, it should be available to solo players as well, but with the caveat that they understand they are expected to play as a team, and try their absolute best to win.

Sorry to **** on those who hope Solaris will be an immersive, lore-based experience, but let's be honest here. FW is what was supposed to be the immersive, RP mode. If immersion is needed (and it desperately is), then FW should be improved to satisfy that crowd, not "try again" with a completely new, separate mode, and continue to leave nothing for competitive players other than 3rd party leagues.

This is the best idea for implementation I have heard yet.
However...
I want 1v1 also... got to have it. I want to duel.

[Spleenslitta]

Aresye, on 15 August 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Smaller teams (5v5 or 6v6 would be perfect), better matchmaking (easier to group similarly sized groups and skill levels when the MM only has to worry about 5 or 6 players), less tryhards in public queue (most of them would prefer to play Solaris), and it gives an actual "realistic" platform that PGI could branch into esports with (if done well).

Whoa...you want to have teams in Solaris? Solaris was always about the gladiators capability to scrap anyone in their sights through sheer skill....alone.

With free for all Solaris the MM don't have to worry at all. Throw the MM out the window, spray it with kerosene and set it on fire.
12 or 24 players are selected and thrown into a match. Done. MM not needed.

[TheArisen]

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Whoa...you want to have teams in Solaris? Solaris was always about the gladiators capability to scrap anyone in their sights through sheer skill....alone.

With free for all Solaris the MM don't have to worry at all. Throw the MM out the window, spray it with kerosene and set it on fire.
12 or 24 players are selected and thrown into a match. Done. MM not needed.

Well there were small teams. Besides, the craziness of 4v4v4v4v4v4 or 8v8v8 would be awesome. Of course, a free for all, etc would be necessary as well.

[Spleenslitta]

TheArisen, on 16 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Well there were small teams. Besides, the craziness of 4v4v4v4v4v4 or 8v8v8 would be awesome. Of course, a free for all, etc would be necessary as well.

True enough about that part. I thought he was thinking about a boring 5vs5.
But there are two problems that might show up from this.

1) When there is a player that doesn't play according to a teams standard in normal 12vs12 mode the complaints rain ingame...and some of that carry over to the forums.
Because there is only 4 players on a team those complaints could multiply since that one player has more influence on the teams fighting ability.

2) Many say putting togheter a team is hard enough for the MM with the current QP. Imagine MM trying to balance 4v4v4v4v4v4 matches.
I don't know what will happen....ain't got a clue but i'm worried.

[Aresye]

Spleenslitta, on 16 August 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Whoa...you want to have teams in Solaris? Solaris was always about the gladiators capability to scrap anyone in their sights through sheer skill....alone.

With free for all Solaris the MM don't have to worry at all. Throw the MM out the window, spray it with kerosene and set it on fire.
12 or 24 players are selected and thrown into a match. Done. MM not needed.

When I was loremaster for CWI, I'd host 2-3 Trial of Bloodright competitions each year, trying to remain as close to the lore as possible. The slots to compete were given to those who met the minimum requirements and were on a first come, first serve basis, however the last slot was always given to the winner of a Grand Melee. I've had lots of experience hosting large FFAs and 1v1s, in addition to participating in many of them.

What makes for good entertainment in the actual Solaris world does not necessarily make for good entertainment in a video game. FFAs are basically nothing more than a giant dice roll, and 1v1s are not really as exciting as you think, often coming down to which player decides to out-meta the other player.

2v2s, 3v3s, and 4v4s aren't that much better, as it's really just 2 death balls charging at each other, and we can already see this in the scouting mode of FW, where the team that sticks together and fights as 4, usually will win the match. There's no incentive for small teams of 4v4 or less to split up and take any form of map control.

Once you make it 5v5 however, map control starts to become important. You can try to death ball the other team, but the additional firepower of that 5th player makes it very risky, as 5 players providing overlapping firepower from different positions can easily focus down a death ball push if they know what they're doing.

Basically, when it comes down to team sizes, here's generally what contributes the most to winning a match with various sized groups:
1v1: Mechlab/Meta Knowledge
2v2: Mechlab/Meta Knowledge
3v3: Sticking Together + Focus Fire
4v4: Sticking Together + Focus Fire
5v5: Map Control + Teamwork + Focus Fire
6v6: Map Control + Teamwork
7v7: Map Control + Teamwork + Practice
8v8+: In-Depth Strategy + Teamwork + Practice

The problem with anything below 5v5 is there's very little depth, which makes for a very poor viewing experience, and would get very stale for the players involved (ex: do you feel scouting mode in FW offers exciting gameplay?) The problem with anything above 6v6 is there's too much depth, to the point you really have to practice in-depth strategies with the same players, making it less accessible for those who wish to drop solo.

[Gas Guzzler]

They could have been working on Solaris for the past several months but instead spent it working on Energy Draw.