172 replies to this topic

[Peter2k]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

They aren't switching game engines in the middle of the game's life cycle. Cryengine is here to stay.

Then update to a newer version then
Except Russ said in the town halls it would be around the same amount of work
And he's thinking about it and weighing both for pros and cons

Yet to hear anything new from the engine discussion

It's just that unreal engine is extremely widely used for some good reasons

I've also yet to see any real game (SC still looks more like a showroom for starships) that looks great on a cryengine that runs well and isn't coming from CryTech itself

I think epic also changed the sales model they used
Me thinks they want royalties these days instead of upfront cash

Some last food for thought
DX12 got some great things, just as vulcan I guess
But
It also puts more work into the hands of the developers
That's not something I'm necessarily keen on seeing for MWO
If they can't fix they're particles system or hud so it's not a fps hog in all those years then I'm not sure they can do any really advanced features
Like async compute n stuff
Well without them being bugged

Edited by Peter2k, 17 August 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[dario03]

Gryphorim, on 17 August 2016 - 02:43 AM, said:

Does anyone remember back in closed beta when the changed TO Cryengine?
That caused all manner of problems, including the disco bug, numerous networking issues and god knows what else.
It was 6 months of no other real progress leading up to the new engine, and like 3 months of unstable gameplay after.
I think it was an earlier Unreal Engine build that they moved away from, as well.

I only remember a update of the Cryengine version.

[Johnny Z]

I would like to know what Final Fantasy XV is using and Infinite Warfare. Star Citizen wouldn't be using Cryengine if it wasn't good. They had enough backing to use any engine.

Wild guess? I bet MechWarrior online stays with Cry Engine because I bet Cry engine backs them. If they are smart. Because MechWarrior Online has a better design than Star Citizen. I bet Cryengine backs them both.

That is unless some other engine makes a better deal.

By better deal I mean doing engine design for the game custom and also providing techs.

That's the kind of stuff going on deciding an engine I think.


I was wrong about Fallout 4 using 1 mb graphics its using between .5 and 5 mb, I just checked and the 5 mb isn't photo realistic but looks really good.

Either way MechWarrior Online mechs could look photo realistic with enough video memory. So this game has some long term staying power if it wants.

Yes I know it isn't all about video memory just making a comparison.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 03:34 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I don't think PGI can afford to do this, it would mean devoting 6+ months and in the meanwhile development on other features would be very slow. Is there enough support from the fanbase to slug through a process like that? Is the license long term enough for it to pay off? Do they even have the money to cover the dip in revenue it would cause during the migration?

I think the best bet for pulling off something like that would be a major cooperation with another studio that has more goodwill, along with scaling up the ambitions of the game and prolonging the license for another 5 years. Essentially rebooting the game under new or joint leadership. But what reasonable business would enter into that sort of cooperation with PGI given their reputation?

Also remember, a new engine would only add potential, not automatically add any new content. The game after migration would essentially be exactly the same until PGI manages to actually take advantage of it, that is after the whole staff has finished learning the new engine and all the bugs are sorted out. I'm pretty sceptical.

Edited by Sjorpha, 17 August 2016 - 03:51 AM.

[Deathlike]

If an engine upgrade were to happen, we would just be going through "buy another mechpack" phase for at least 12 months with minimal changes on other fronts (mainly maps, that would probably have to be redeveloped as well).

I'm not sure how you could possibly pitch this to those of us that are still around.

On PGI's end, it may be too much work to not do it at all (aka a secret "no").

Edited by Deathlike, 17 August 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

If an engine upgrade were to happen, we would just be going through "buy another mechpack" phase for at least 12 months with minimal changes on other fronts (mainly maps, that would probably have to be redeveloped as well).

I'm not sure how you could possibly pitch this to those of us that are still around.

On PGI's end, it may be too much work to not do it at all (aka a secret "no").

They could hire Unreal to port the whole thing over for them... Anything is possible. A very common kind of contract in construction is called "cost plus". Very simple, cost per hour for the employee plus extra for the company. This is also one of the most lucrative kind of contracts and is really open ended and generaly more expensive. But only a fool would do it any other way in this situation.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 04:05 AM.

[Deathlike]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

They could hire Unreal to port the whole thing over for them... Anything is possible. A very common kind of contract in construction is called "cost plus". Very simple, cost per hour for the employee plus extra for the company. This is also one of the most lucrative kind of contracts and is really open ended and generaly more expensive. But only a fool would do it any other way in this situation.

I'm pretty sure that's not how things work in the industry.

Porting things over is done by yourself more often than not. There may be tools that do some of the conversion for you, but the majority of that work is done by the developer of the game that wants to port their game.... and NOT by engine makers.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 August 2016 - 04:06 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

I would like to know what Final Fantasy XV is using and Infinite Warfare. Star Citizen wouldn't be using Cryengine if it wasn't good. They had enough backing to use any engine.

Wild guess? I bet MechWarrior online stays with Cry Engine because I bet Cry engine backs them. If they are smart. Because MechWarrior Online has a better design than Star Citizen. I bet Cryengine backs them both.

That is unless some other engine makes a better deal.

By better deal I mean doing engine design for the game custom and also providing techs.

That's the kind of stuff going on deciding an engine I think.


I was wrong about Fallout 4 using 1 mb graphics its using between .5 and 5 mb, I just checked and the 5 mb isn't photo realistic but looks really good.

Either way MechWarrior Online mechs could look photo realistic with enough video memory. So this game has some long term staying power if it wants.

Yes I know it isn't all about video memory just making a comparison.

FFXV uses squares own engine, The Luminous Studio Engine

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

They could hire Unreal to port the whole thing over for them... Anything is possible. A very common kind of contract in construction is called "cost plus". Very simple, cost per hour for the employee plus extra for the company. This is also one of the most lucrative kind of contracts and is really open ended and generaly more expensive. But only a fool would do it any other way in this situation.

That would be akin to a developer going here...make our game for us.......and land us where we are now, with nobody remaining that knows how the code works.

[Johnny Z]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 17 August 2016 - 04:05 AM, said:

FFXV uses squares own engine, The Luminous Studio Engine

That's the other option. PGI makes their own engine. Not impossible but a challenge I bet. Who knows.

Star Citizen hired a good portion of Cryengine programers...

Common business practice this kind of thing. Definitely not out of the question.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 04:08 AM.

[Deathlike]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

That's the other option. PGI makes their own engine. Not impossible but a challenge I bet. Who knows.

PGI is not an engine developing company.

They are a modmaking company (using existing engines and develop games with it).

So, this would never happen.

[Johnny Z]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

PGI is not an engine developing company.

They are a modmaking company (using existing engines and develop games with it).

So, this would never happen.

Depends how much using someone elses engine costs and how much it would cost to make their own.

Everyone is tired of new Windows maybe microsft is unearthing their programmers to make a game engine?

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 04:19 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Unicorn dreams.....



Reality is you get the horn.

[El Bandito]

Instead of wasting so much money on a new engine, they should use it to hire a really good programmer.

[Deathlike]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Depends how much using someone elses engine costs and how much it would cost to make their own.

Do you realize it would take at least a year plus to develop your own engine? This also means little to no optimizations from the initial go. Such games would have actual alphas and betas.

There are games that use their own in-house engine, and it needs actual developers to maintain it full time and improve it. PGI doesn't have a real dedicated programmer (Paul is not a real programmer, just a mod maker). They have guys that can do a lot of little things from each area, but not a core programmer to develop real changes.

That's before we talk about money in sunk costs to develop an engine.

[Johnny Z]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

Do you realize it would take at least a year plus to develop your own engine? This also means little to no optimizations from the initial go. Such games would have actual alphas and betas.

There are games that use their own in-house engine, and it needs actual developers to maintain it full time and improve it. PGI doesn't have a real dedicated programmer (Paul is not a real programmer, just a mod maker). They have guys that can do a lot of little things from each area, but not a core programmer to develop real changes.

That's before we talk about money in sunk costs to develop an engine.

For sure. But long term their own engine is best to of course. Someone elses engine is doing things this game doesn't need and that sort of thing.

It wouldnt work for them to make their own and put this game on hold.

Edited by Johnny Z, 17 August 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Peter2k, on 17 August 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Then update to a newer version then
Except Russ said in the town halls it would be around the same amount of work
And he's thinking about it and weighing both for pros and cons

There ya go. This is why we won't see a new engine or updated engine. It's too much work for their team. They need to work on adding to this game, not porting assets to another engine and starting over.

[Deathlike]

Johnny Z, on 17 August 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

For sure. But long term their own engine is best to of course. Someone elses engine is doing things this game doesn't need and that sort of thing.

It wouldnt work for them to make their own and put this game on hold.

PGI has spent $0 for a real long term programmer. Engines take a long time to develop in the first place and isn't trivial. You clearly don't understand how much time, effort, and money this would entail.

This is even before we talk about developing the engine to handle the map format, mechs, and existing content. It's NOT trivial.

This game would be on hold indefinitely if they had to create their own engine.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 August 2016 - 04:44 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2016 - 04:43 AM, said:

Engines take a long time to develop in the first place and isn't trivial. You clearly don't understand how much time, effort, and money this would entail.

What?!? No way! Switching game engines is simple, it's as easy as switching out a light bulb.

[Deathlike]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2016 - 04:49 AM, said:

What?!? No way! Switching game engines is simple, it's as easy as switching out a light bulb.

Don't feed the actual trolls in this thread. They don't understand your sarcasm.

[Peter2k]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2016 - 04:43 AM, said:

There ya go. This is why we won't see a new engine or updated engine. It's too much work for their team. They need to work on adding to this game, not porting assets to another engine and starting over.

Not saying it's good, since it's not in the case of MWO
Can't see them not taking as long as years just to work out the bugs they would introduce

I'm saying Russ is thinking openly enough about it to mention it on 2? Townhalls


DX12 in MWO would be a boon for systems running AMD CPU's (can handle draw calls a lot better + better use of many cores)
Having a heavily overclocked Skylake makes me not care any more
My fps is good enough for the unoptimized game MWO has been like forever


Not seeing graphics get better any more
PGI's understanding of performance passes has been in many cases to just reduce graphics fidelity even on very high settings