59 replies to this topic

[Captain Tristan The Lucky]

(I do not claim to represent anyone else)

We are currently as a house near non existent.

Last in almost every group and faction stat, and with a population of maybe 2-3 dozen truly active players in the FWLM. It has grown to the point where not only is there no incentive for us to drop into faction play, but no incentive for players to join the faction at all. Indeed our numbers continue to dwindle as the last of our players slowly trickle away.

I will admit that the blame for this may partially lie with PGI, but we cannot simply pass the blame here. I personally feel the lack of a centralized strong leadership uniting our capable unit leaders has more to blame, but honestly the issue is a complex one and i cannot pretend i have an answer.

I am putting out this thread to ask not only my fellow Marik Loyalists, but also mercs and players from other factions what advice they could offer us about our current predicament.

I look forward to any and all feedback.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Ehh... Not sure I agree with your numbers there. The Widows alone have two dozen fully active members on our roster, including a half-dozen fresh recruits gained in the last couple weeks, and we're typically only a small part of the regular activity on the Marik TS hub, which has been increasing again of late. The community overall has had its ups and downs, as with any large community, and we've had a slow spell, but we seem to be coming out of it.

Now, I do recognize that we're not having much success in CW, but this is as much a reflection on PGI's handling of CW than anything else, because CW just isn't that much fun, certainly not compared to the wait times we have to get into a match, and not having any major Clan border, we're not given very many people to fight against.

Our community as a whole has also not been one to attract nor generate much in the way of high-comp players, just the nature of our culture and the kinds of players we tend to attract and foster. Furthermore, all the high meta tends to fall with Clan tech, so most of the high comp teams tend to gravitate to those factions.

These two coupled together mean that we generally don't have a strong showing on the leaderboards, nor in CW, but that doesn't mean we're in decline or failing as a faction. We just tend to not be a faction that cares overmuch for that.

I do agree that unit leaders and community leaders could (and should) step up both recruitment and activity efforts, but this sounds too much like a call for a "Captain-General" or some other such organized structure for my tastes.

[Kifferson von doober]

population goes up sometimes, population goes down sometimes. alot of peeps are on holiday at the mo, i've just got back from mine.
We were never one of the larger houses but i'd imagine the other houses have quiet periods too

[shameless]

not having a clan border? you've had a jade falcon border over 2 weeks now. Attack them, they will defend...

[Karl Marlow]

And they did defend. Sadly apathy and, apparently, flavor text got in the way of any sustained coordinated assault.


It has nothing to do with the clans. It's just an excuse. It's always excuses with the leadership always what we can't do and how much the game 'sucks'. We can't get good fights because we don't border clans even though we've had a border for well over a month. We can't fight because we don't have the numbers even though Merc units come down here routinely begging for marik to drop with them. We can't organize drops because organized drop somehow have flavor text associated with it. However the hell that is even supposed to matter. We can't fight because FW isn't fun even though it is essentially the same thing as quick play. you blow up enemy pixels. WE can't play because it takes too long even when we have a clan border giving us near instant drops. Excuse after excuse after excuse.

When was the last 'official' Marik op? The Liao war? Even then it took 2 weeks to go through the beauricratic nonsense and at the end of the day there was still one unnamed unit leader who wanted to continue doing nothing.

Don't like CW? when was the last time Marik has done anything together outside of CW? The Megamek tournament 2 years ago? The calender is near empty. We don't do MMM anymore. There is a general drop bay Sunday Roadbeer aparantly set up a couple years ago. Hell the calender isn't even displaying the correct patch day. Not the it matters. Unit leaders have let their players become so disengaged that the website is a ghost town. Which I'm sure leaves a great impression on all the new peeople we send there to navigate that labrynth to set up their Teamspeak tag.

You want to fix the problems? Stop making excuses and start motivating your players. Be the cheerleader. Start providing content. Run a contest. Do an event. Start being leaders.

[Monkey Lover]

I will do cw if my unit wants to but im not pushing for it. I could list my reasons but they don't matter much. It is my view CW is dying not Marik. This is a pgi issue i hope they will fix it but by the looks of the roadmap im guessing not anytime soon.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 August 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[AmazingOnionMan]

From where I'm sitting the main problem is that the FW-mode is terminally unfun. Sure, it occasionally rocks, but most of the time it is just soul-destroying.
The second main problem is that when I do decide to drop in FW (when the FWLMTS manages to scrounge up a 12-man), we still don't manage to to actually do something, as we don't have the manpower to push an offensive.
So I drop when I'm shanghai'ed or when the mood strikes me. It doesn't take all that many drops before I tire. As this is very much my own subjective take on FW the fault may very well lie with me, but I'm still going to point a quivering finger at PGI and their disregard of functional gamedesign. When most of the enjoyment of a game is gabbing with your teammates through a 3rd party product, something has gone very wrong.

[Captain Tristan The Lucky]

In response to llithi Dragon, i know that the Black Widows are active as are MGA, the 1FWG and indeed the 13OH, we usually run a 6 to 8 man most nights in our Unit teamspeak separate from the FWLM (roughly 14 or so active members by my count). But even then this does not account for the seemingly almost instant loss of most of the many people who join the FWLM. Numerous applications come in every day yet upon visiting Marik teamspeak it is (as Thomas Marik said) a Ghost town. Clearly we are not unattractive as a faction but there seems to be little to stay for.

Individual units seem to be growing such as the 13th and the Black widows, but the faction isn't. Whatever it may be we have to face the music because even Davion and Liao have more players than we do. And this sickening bureaucracy which seems to hardly even exist anymore is certainly not helping either, and that is what i meant by good leaders yet a lack of centralized leadership, no coordination and no quick decisions. I'm happy to saddle the burden of a solution as long as i am not the only one.

Edited by Captain Tristan The Lucky, 18 August 2016 - 08:13 AM.

[WANTED]

I wouldn't go off anything related to Marik or any IS House for that matter. FW is dead for most IS as the merc units are 90 percent in Clan ( mostly Ghost Bear at the moment) and Jade is clearly won so many IS pugs are not logging in at this point. Wish they would reset already and give win to Jade. It's like letting a wounded old dog live when the humane thing to do is euthanize.

Edited by WANTED, 18 August 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Tristan, Thomas,

You guys both are talking about this "bureaucracy" thing like there's some ponderous and overbearing governmental structure in the FWLM that we have to slog through to do anything.

I don't really understand what you mean, because one of the fundamental principles of the FWLM is that there IS NO huge, ponderous, overbearing governmental structure. We barely even HAVE a governmental structure, which was specifically designed to be an administrative body for the community, running the website and TS and providing basic community organizational and moderation services.

We have a semi-official "War Council", that is primarily comprised of unit leaders (and other prominent, interested members of the community) that kinda-sorta semi-directs our overall efforts in CW, but it has never maintained any official, binding power or authority (and the bulk of the War Council's "authority" comes from the specific authority the unit leaders that are a part of it have over their individual units).

I certainly agree that the unit leaders should step up efforts in recruiting for the FWLM, and promoting activity within the FWLM, but we don't need any central, organized governmental structure to do so. And you'll never get enough independent members and member units to join in on any kind of strong central government, because the lack of such, and our ability to coordinate with each other and work together without it, has been one of the fundamental pillars of the community.

There are real things that we can do to address our lagging community problem, things that don't require fundamentally changing a core pillar of our community's culture, and that you'll actually be able to get enough support/cooperation for to enact. Let's discuss those things, and what we can do to improve community recruitment and activity.

But first, before we can ever decide on any real course of action to correct our problems, or at least alleviate them, we have to actually correctly identify them. Let's start there, and identify the problems our community is having, and what the root causes of those problems are. THEN we can start figuring out the best ways we can go about resolving those problems.

[S T I N G S]

Ilithi Dragon, on 18 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Tristan, Thomas,

You guys both are talking about this "bureaucracy" thing like there's some ponderous and overbearing governmental structure in the FWLM that we have to slog through to do anything.

I don't really understand what you mean, because one of the fundamental principles of the FWLM is that there IS NO huge, ponderous, overbearing governmental structure. We barely even HAVE a governmental structure, which was specifically designed to be an administrative body for the community, running the website and TS and providing basic community organizational and moderation services.

We have a semi-official "War Council", that is primarily comprised of unit leaders (and other prominent, interested members of the community) that kinda-sorta semi-directs our overall efforts in CW, but it has never maintained any official, binding power or authority (and the bulk of the War Council's "authority" comes from the specific authority the unit leaders that are a part of it have over their individual units).

I certainly agree that the unit leaders should step up efforts in recruiting for the FWLM, and promoting activity within the FWLM, but we don't need any central, organized governmental structure to do so. And you'll never get enough independent members and member units to join in on any kind of strong central government, because the lack of such, and our ability to coordinate with each other and work together without it, has been one of the fundamental pillars of the community.

There are real things that we can do to address our lagging community problem, things that don't require fundamentally changing a core pillar of our community's culture, and that you'll actually be able to get enough support/cooperation for to enact. Let's discuss those things, and what we can do to improve community recruitment and activity.

But first, before we can ever decide on any real course of action to correct our problems, or at least alleviate them, we have to actually correctly identify them. Let's start there, and identify the problems our community is having, and what the root causes of those problems are. THEN we can start figuring out the best ways we can go about resolving those problems.

As a former Marik I see the frustration that is being shown.

I think what Thomas is trying to say is that you can't say that you don't have an incentive to play, and that you can't just use excuse after excuse to get out of playing. I know Thomas loves CW and he wants the gamemode to be good. But, even a month ago when I left Marik there were no matches with 0 people queued to invade Davion/CJF. And it doesn't matter how much you recruit or how much you are actively playing if you are not playing anything that gives you something after the match is over

[ShaneoftheDead]

Some Thoughts:

Lucky has very good point that the FWLM had much stronger leadership in the past that did events that lead to a better feeling of "community". Monday Marik Madness anyone? I always thought that the end of that... was the start of the decline of the FWLM. It was killed by PGI changing the match making to 3,3,3,3. Could it brought back now? Maybe. Or other events could be done. Suggestions?

I disagree about having a "sickening bureaucracy". I don't understand what makes Lucky think that and I'll need more explanation. Is it sickening because it does not exist?? Or because we can barely hold a UCC meeting? I don't know.

Server Population is down. The reasons for that are numerous. Old Game, fickle players, etc. However, I have never really understood why the 13OH continue to stay away. Yes, you were forming at a particular bad time administratively for the FWLM and I understand why McEvedy initially got your own server, but I believe that problem is gone now. Why not come back and bolster the ranks? As they say, nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. At the moment there are 7 clients on the 13OH server and 28 on the FWLM server. 1/5th of the possible clients are staying away from the FWLM server on purpose. The 13OH can do what it likes and if I have offended McEvedy, we can meet at Apple-bees and the first round is on me as the start of an apology. I just think this issue is ironic coming from a 13OH member.

OnionMan has an very good point. FW is just not that much fun for some of us. Yes, no clan border is a huge issue, but even if we did... FW is just not much fun in it's current incarnation. Perhaps if PGI redesigned it so smaller units could see constant results as larger units but on a smaller scale? Don't know. I just know that big units make impacts on the map and small units see their planets fall even though they win. And when you lose a match, a big screen declares that you are awarded zero loyalty points... because losing is not loyal, I suppose. And I know that most players get more satisfaction in QP because you don't Ghost Drop in QP, and you don't wait 10 minutes for a match in QP, and you don't commit 30 minutes to each match in QP. 10-15 minute length for QP is a huge advantage. I think it's psychological...like how kids cartoons are that short and so are most youtube videos. Scouting was huge in this as it brought less wait time and shorter actions, but the rewards are not really worth it. I do not know what to do to make FWLM members more excited about FW, mostly because I just can't get that excited about it myself.

Edited by ShaneoftheDead, 18 August 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Oh, Illithi... we do have a Captain-General... His name is Stingr4y.

[Captain Tristan The Lucky]

Yeah, the "barely" is kinda what i was getting at by sickening in regards to the UCC in recent times, sorry for the somewhat proactive and antagonistic language initially, bad day at the office you might say. And i'm fairly certain Jamie isn't annoyed at y'all Shane, we do however have about 10 months paid for on the teamspeak so it would be a bit of an insult to the guys who donated to throw it away.

Honestly i am happy with the feedback we are getting here so far, any ideas or opinions that end up helping our purple bird grow are only going to make it more fun for us after all.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Tristian, I totally understand. I'm missing about 50% of the UCCs myself. And it is difficult to impossible to coordinate things if we the leadership does not step up and lead. So, my bad. I also noticed that our Steam site was neglected for a few months. It had some long unanswered questions. I'll try to keep a better eye on it in the future. There, I have it bookmarked now.

[ShaneoftheDead]

Is it TIME? What say YOU?

Edited by ShaneoftheDead, 18 August 2016 - 06:01 PM.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Hey, I can totally understand rough days at work.

I don't have a whole lot of time for suggestions right now (I have to be up extra early tomorrow), but one big one is activity in the general bays.

All of the units have their own channels (or TS servers in some cases), and we tend to drop in our own places with our own units. Understandable. The guys in our units are good friends, and we tend to mesh well and play well together, etc. However, when we just play by ourselves down in our own channels, that leaves little activity up in the general bays, giving the image of our server not being very active at all, and leaving the few guys not in a specific unit (or whose unit doesn't have many people on at the time) stuck without a big group. Every unit I've played with in the FWLM welcomes anyone who jumps into their channels looking for a group, but not many people actually try that, for various reasons.

We really need to encourage our players to drop in the General Bays more often, and mix and mingle with the other units. The FWLM was at its best when our units co-mingled constantly, and one of the several reasons why we've declined is because our units have tended to be more and more isolationist (in a passive kind of way).

Even just a few guys can make a big difference there. I just took a couple Widows up to join a small group in Bay 1 earlier this evening, and before long we had a full group, then 14, then 16, dropping in quick play with 3-4 guys just sitting in channel, doing their own drops, etc. and enjoying the conversation while waiting for a slot to open in the main group. That was just with me and initially one other Widow. Then a couple other Widows joined up, and a few other FWLMers came on, and we had a great, rockin' group going, and were building a solid dynamic, too, with more wins than losses.

Another thing that unit leaders can do is encourage ventures into LFG, which is a great way to pick up new recruits. In fact, I recommend making that some kind of event or regular practice for the FWLM, just grabbing a few guys in a group in the general bays and popping into LFG to bring guys into the TS. You'll get people from all the factions, but you'll have fun, and you'll get a steady number of new recruits.

As for the UCC, I apologize for not making the last one, but it was my birthday and I was home on leave. I know Catamount tried to make them while he was running the Widows when I was on deployment, but he works retail, so it can be hard for him to make events on Saturday evenings. I'm back now, though, and Dread is back as well (we're Co-COs, spoken coco!), so between the three of us we should be able to have someone show up to the UCC. I may or may not make the next one, my schedule that weekend is uncertain, but I'll make sure we have at least one officer show up.

CW I'll have to touch on later.

[Captain Tristan The Lucky]

We have somewhat of a unanimous agreement that a crowd attracts a crowd so far which is good. And the revival of the Marik monday madness of which i have heard much sounds like a great idea. I remember when i made the suggestion a few months back to have a few 13OH vs 1FWG matches and that was a hell of a lot of fun for all involved so events in general sound good.

Although we are pretty laid back in our unit styles i know a fair number of us do hunger for an element of competitiveness. Even if it is only every now and again. This we cannot gain from community warfare for the reasons above. But we definitely could arrange some friendly inter unit matches to scratch that itch

Edited by Captain Tristan The Lucky, 19 August 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[Lily from animove]

surrender to the wolves, we bring you all the shiny lostech back and then trash some jade parrots and steiners.

[Captain Tristan The Lucky]

The only people i want to trash is Liao , can you offer something on that front?