337 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Appogee, on 18 August 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

I am asking a different question. I am asking: why does it work that way?

How are you able to fire a weapon when you don't have any energy in reserve? And why does firing when you are low on energy cause a Mech to get hotter?

(Why not make it that, when you are out of energy, you can't fire. That would at least be logical.)

Your looking for a concrete realistic reason?

Good luck.

[Trollfeed]

I bet the same guys are crying loudest that prevented implementing limited weapon size for hardpoints. Their argument has always been that any rules for limiting weapons will limit build diversity and wreck this game. In reality all what they want is to make boats. Don't really understand how it's "diversity" when every used mech has 57 damage laser vomit.

What I hope this power draw system accomplishes is revitalizing mechs with less hardpoints and we will probably see more build and mech diversity when only deciding factor for choosing mechs isn't how bloated you can make its alpha strike.

[Appogee]

Jaqir, on 18 August 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

Consider the energy limit "a safety feature". You can bypass it with override, but that'll but more stress on your engine than it's designed to safely handle, causing more heat. You're not running out of juice as such, you're just using a lot more than you should in order to keep the warranty from going void.

Thank you! I needed this

[Old-dirty B]

Appogee, on 18 August 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

I am asking a different question. I am asking: why does it work that way?

How are you able to fire a weapon when you don't have any energy in reserve? And why does firing when you are low on energy cause a Mech to get hotter?

(Why not make it that, when you are out of energy, you can't fire. That would at least be logical.)

The heat penalty allows players to still alpha strike, even when on low or even no energy but that there has to be a penalty... and the heat system is a way to penalize in that regard.

[Jaqir]

People should also keep in mind that these are the initial TEST values, on a TEST server. The values will be changing based on TEST results and constructive feedback. Don't gun down the whole system just because something's draining far too much to be useful as-is.

[Appogee]

Trollfeed, on 18 August 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

I bet the same guys are crying loudest that prevented implementing limited weapon size for hardpoints.

Did anyone actually cry about sized hardpoints?

I don't recall PGI ever entertaining the idea, or any players crying about it.

I think sized hardpoints would make this a far better and more balanced game than it's turned out to be. It wouldn't be that hard to introduce it now, even. (Not that PGI will ever do it.)

[Colonel ONeill]

Pat Kell, on 18 August 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

**This is the end of the brawlers as we know it*** come on, sing along guys.

Let's see if this game will survive another PPCGauss meta.

[DGTLDaemon]

Well, I don't know about the IS, but on the clan side, it now looks like:

- dual UAC10 builds are dead;
- triple UAC5 builds are dead;
- LPL builds of any kind are dead.

So it appears that we'll have a completely new meta when the Energy Draw system goes live. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not sure what Russ was smoking when he called the new system "very subtle" For me, it's a total overhaul that will invalidate pretty much every mech in my deck. Interesting times, indeed...

[Gas Guzzler]

Colonel ONeill, on 18 August 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

Let's see if this game will survive another PPCGauss meta.

They'll just combine ghost heat with Energy Draw, add a little exponential heat gain, and call it good.

[Tiantara]

DGTLDaemon, on 18 August 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

Well, I don't know about the IS, but on the clan side, it now looks like:

- dual UAC10 builds are dead;
- triple UAC5 builds are dead;
- LPL builds of any kind are dead.

So it appears that we'll have a completely new meta when the Energy Draw system goes live. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm not sure what Russ was smoking when he called the new system "very subtle" For me, it's a total overhaul that will invalidate pretty much every mech in my deck. Interesting times, indeed...

- And i see many Timbers with 3LPL builds and 4 medium lasers who don't blow up after 2 shots on Caustic, many dakka warhawks and kodiaks, smart spliced dual UAC builds (even UAC20). System need to tweak a little, but it really make some mech work as a new. But yes... it's wipe out all we know and calculate about each weapon and component. Lucky - my builds still works. Not all, but most. If something went wrong with them - that would be really bad. Also - anyone who use builds with heatmanagement in 1.2 - 1.6 range can remain calm. Their mech become more playable and with piloting skill, live longer.

[Old-dirty B]

DGTLDaemon, on 18 August 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

Well, I don't know about the IS, but on the clan side, it now looks like:

- dual UAC10 builds are dead;
- triple UAC5 builds are dead;
- LPL builds of any kind are dead.

...

I wouldn't go that far to say these are dead, they will have to adapt though. A dual uac10 build, has an alpha strike of 20 and is able to do that twice in a rapid succession. The energy draw system allows 20 damage per second or 30 per 1.5 second, after the initial alpha of 20 energy / damage, 10 energy / damage remains, wait 0.5 seconds and the second alpha can be outputted (via double tap). Wait 1.5 seconds (well within the cooldown) and you can do the whole sequence again. This seems not much different from the ghost heat era.

Another thought, while all mechs now have the ability to alpha strike with +/- 30 damage, the bigger mechs have the flexibility (weight wise) to allow multiple weapon groups capable of a outputting 30 damage. The increased cooldown for all weapons gives these multi alpha strike builds the "room" to make use of that.

Edit: Mechs with a lot of energy hardpoints seem to me most suited to do that since energy weapons tend to be relative small and light. For example, a laser vomit Timberwolf with a pretty big alpha strike (60-ish) is now able to do a smaller alpha strike (30-ish) twice within 1.5 seconds where a lot of (smaller) mechs barely manage to do a single alpha strike within that same time frame.

Edited by B3R3ND, 18 August 2016 - 11:36 PM.

[Colonel ONeill]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

They'll just combine ghost heat with Energy Draw, add a little exponential heat gain, and call it good.

At least I do know now, why they realeased almost no info before this post. This Energy draw will break so many weapons and builds.

[Trollfeed]

Appogee, on 18 August 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

Did anyone actually cry about sized hardpoints?

I don't recall PGI ever entertaining the idea, or any players crying about it.

I think sized hardpoints would make this a far better and more balanced game than it's turned out to be. It wouldn't be that hard to introduce it now, even. (Not that PGI will ever do it.)

Wayyyy back in times of closed beta and before. It was heatedly discussed in forums and there were some very vocal people who were against it because they wanted their gauss vomit catapult.

[DGTLDaemon]

B3R3ND, on 18 August 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

I wouldn't go that far to say these are dead, they will have to adapt though. A dual uac10 build, has an alpha strike of 20 and is able to do that twice in a rapid succession. The energy draw system allows 20 damage per second or 30 per 1.5 second, after the initial alpha of 20 energy / damage, 10 energy / damage remains, wait 0.5 seconds and the second alpha can be outputted (via double tap). Wait 1.5 seconds (well within the cooldown) and you can do the whole sequence again. This seems not much different from the ghost heat era.

The whole point of a dual UAC10 build was to output an alpha strike of 40 (double-tap) at the risk of getting a jam - the "high risk, high reward" sort of thing. Having to space those shots by 0.5 seconds invalidates the concept of double-tapping, because you no longer have the benefit of putting both shots into the same enemy mech part, while still running the risk of a jam...

[Reno Blade]

Yes, finally !
A working penalty system which still allows risky shots, but increases TTK by encouraging spreading the damage!

I am very hyped, as I wanted such a system for a long time, even suggested something like this at one point.
Hopefully with this in place, medium mechs with less hard points (such as PHawk) will have a place compared to all these boats.

I just wish the limit would be less than 3x LL/LP, so we don't see every mech running 3x LL/LP. (e.g. 26-28 Energy pool)

It seems many people are already afraid their precious boats will no longer work, but the penalties are quite low it seems.
Even if your Alpha will exceed a bit, the penalty is only 0.5 of the damage over 30, so you could even use 3x CLP with quite low penalty.

Now as I am on the road and can't play, could someone please check this feature with the override?

Quote

"If your Energy is depleted you can not shoot anymore, if you don't override"

This would prevent accidential Noob death by spamming buttons too fast after another, right?

Edit:
I see so many people cry "build X is dead now"... c'mon test the builds in action before dooming them.
As Winters said, 2x UAC10 will only give you 5 extra heat at max (and less if your double tab is slower).

I even think the limit is too generous and each point damage over the 30 should be full 1x instead of 0.5x to heat.

Edited by Reno Blade, 19 August 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[meteorol]

It's somewhat suprising you can alpha 5 LPL two times under the new system when it was aimed at limiting high alpha builds.

Also, AC 5 nerf is way too harsh. Lets test 1.9 or 2.0 sec for starters.
0.75 for srm is too much, this will hit brawlers too hard compared to long range builds. Put it at 0.5.

[jweltsch]

meteorol, on 19 August 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

It's somewhat suprising you can alpha 5 LPL two times under the new system when it was aimed at limiting high alpha builds.

Also, AC 5 nerf is way too harsh. Lets test 1.9 or 2.0 sec for starters.
0.75 for srm is too much, this will hit brawlers too hard compared to long range builds. Put it at 0.5.

Range needs to be accounted for in the energy draw system otherwise there will be no merit to short ranged weapons.

[Dee Eight]

So.... under the current ghost heat, my Kodiak KDK-5 with five MPLs and four SPLs and two ERSL... if all got fired together the ghost heat penalty brings them to total of 116 heat. Under energy draw..the total heat with penalty is 60 (44 damage over the 30 cap = 22 heat penalty, added to the 38 heat the weapons produce normally). So 56 less "spooky" heat.

OR

An Alpha strike from my Spirit bear on the other hand, 4xSRM6 + Ultra/10 + 2 ERML... current system...no ghost heat...so just the 16+3+12 = 31 heat total of the weapons (34 if I double-tap the ultra cannon). Under spooky heat 2.0... that's an 72 point alpha strike, but 48 of the damage is from cluster weapons so they count for 36 in the spooky math instead, so its a net 30 over the limit...so 15 spooky heat.

Did I get that right... high energy alphas work better now and missile/dakka/energy ends up worse off with energy draw ?

Someone above me mentioned an awesome with 4 PPCs... current system, not counting any quirks 4 PPCs together totals nearly 68 heat (smurfy's tables weren't updated to reflect the 9.5 heat for regular PPCs so they show 69.92) and under the spooky 2.0 its 43 heat which means it goes from a 30 point penalty to a 5 point penalty. Meanwhile a Jenner IIC with six SRM6 which is currently a 4 point heat penalty will instead become a 12 point penalty.

And this is supposed to be a better system ? For whom exactly ?

Edited by Dee Eight, 19 August 2016 - 12:26 AM.

[BoldricKent]

From what i read... it seems it would be right to set energy cap based on engine size, so larger engines
can raise 30 heat cap to certain amount. I would also suggest adding a bit of bonus for standard engines versus xl engine.
Ballistic seems to taken another hit compering to energy weapons.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Did you notice this?

Gauss Rifles


• The Gauss charge mechanic has been removed.
• Gauss Cooldown has been increased to 6.71.
• Max Range has been reduced from 1980 to 1320.
• ‘Mechs are now restricted to equipping no more than 2 Gauss Rifles*. ‘Mechs with more than 2 Gauss Rifles already equipped will be considered Invalid, and will be unable to launch into matches.