- Well, I tested my builds and some builds i have in mind (mostly of mech i want to buy soon).
1. System looks good. Like soft buffer between damage and heat. As I understand - now weapon heats mech as it should, and all what comes over energy points - generates additional heat. That makes some cold build more playable and useful.
2. The lowest amount of energy points can be 20 (for 20-25t mech). But that affect most of build presented in store. So, let it be about 25 points as lowest possible. Than small mech also split a little alphas and takes less heat. The highest - about 45. No more, because heavy and assault mech have more hardpoints, weapons and should be forced to split damage in half with 1 second delay.
3. Ballistic, especially with low amount of ammo. Yeah - like AC20, UAC20, LB10\20-X. Im fine with energy points in using laser, and points equal to damage... but ballistic damage 20 takes 20 energy points - feels not right. Best choice is chain ballistic heat to energy points, and same do with energy weapons (yes, it makes LPL take 7 energy points instead of 10, and Clan ERPPC 14 - but with 40 points for heavy\assault mech that should be ok), keeping non-ghost heat as is if energy points not depleted fully.
4. About rockets... More logical would be count 1 rocket as 1 energy point. So, slow firing LRM feels no difference but close combat don't loose brawlers. Why so? Because of easy destructible ammo and some of weapons. Forcing to put less srm weapon ends with many mech walking without ammo or weapon. As I see on test. Still many weapons wrecked under slightly scratched armor (I don't say about mech, where weapon have no armor on it and easy rips off after 2 light shots). Also with map full of longrange landscapes srm already become less useful. In light mech that "OP" would be capped by 25 energy points, what makes more mixed builds.
5. About bar refill time. I can imagine situation when that 1 second delay could be prolonged. Even can understand - why. But if so - it must stay in range from 1 second to max 1.8 second. Not more. In that range + weapon cooldown pilot have enough time to use pilot skill, tactic or get help from teammates. If delay become longer - all mechanic could wreck into pieces.
6. Heat. Some weapons which should generate less heat with less range and slightly more power - now have more heat in heat bar. Like a sample - medium pulse lasers which have 1 damage more than simple medium laser with same heat and shorter range. Now, with new system they burn engine out and make a questionable use of twice heavy weapon with shorter range. Maybe take off 0.5 of tonnage or less heat would help... I'm still thinking.
7. Also issue with c.a.s.e. shows back. Battle become longer and now easy to lost all ammo. That module need more tweaks to make it useful again. Not only protect from explosion (which doesn't happen in many cases) but also provide additional health to ammo (and, maybe, Gauss to protect that glass cannon)
8. Gauss. I love charging mechanic... and I love bringing back instant shot too, Many players put more than 2 gauss on mech only because of easy lost of it. Gun on mech which have nothing but a Gauss - need more protection. Like +8\+11% to health of gun. It already have not much ammo and with mix build works fine. Now - sometimes friendly fire can strip you fully. 1 lucky shots in back wreck gauss in a seconds. Some of pilots who have only 1 gauss and few small lasers just disconnects. That looks bad.
9. At first time idea of shortening gauss range make me feel sad. But I remember about AC2\UAC2... Nice move. I like that. Useless gun became more playable. Anyway - Advanced Zoom now seems less cool as it as before. Shooting small mech in loooong range was fun. Sniper fun. Player who can wait, can see, can feel movement of target. A little bit romantic on my taste.
10. LPL now 10 damage, when clan still 13. In test battles that feels like disbalanced situation. Yes, IS have no penalty (couse 3 x 10 = exact 30 points) and clans gets a little penalty (3 x 13 = 36 points). Even so - deathwolfs come back and seems not blowing after 1 shot. Hope shortening their range change situation.
11. best part of all - split alpha. If nothing ruins from now - it should change dynamic of game and battle, force player to search tactic and give them time to find cover if caught fire.
Hmm... That's all.
0
Energy Points, Heats, Ranges And Alphas.
Started by Tiantara, Aug 19 2016 12:13 AM
33 replies to this topic
#2
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:06 PM
Tiantara, on 19 August 2016 - 05:01 PM, said:
- We all forgot about easy destructive components like heatsinks. In the middle of combat many mech loosing not only weapon, but theirs coolers systems. Only one that thing make a really tweaky making changes in weapon, instead of adding quirks to mech or change whole heat-system (not mentioning some advice to chain it with engine power what really ridiculous move).
The main base of game was and still now 4 corner mechanic. Armor, speed, heat efficient, firepower.
Pilots of small mech build them around fast-jetlike-engines, use light armor, light structure in cost of free hardpoint and add as much weapon as they can on free hardpoints. Medium balanced between speed, armor and firepower. Some of the now hot even with not so big alpha. Yeah - I mean IS medium. Which with XL engine vs clan weapon become running bombs. heavy and assault always mentioned to be mix-build. For provide longrange support and mid-short brawling. You can make them slower and powerful but place slower, less-weight engine.
Make energy pool chained with engine capacity make some of mech "invalid" or unplayable. Or worse, make all slow except Clan Mech with fixed engines what bring here dis-balance , 'cose IS mech to take same energy pool. speed and maneuver as their enemy - would be forced to have less weapon and... for what need pool if you have no weapon?
Best choice to review some of models in each class and take max possible alpha with heatmanagement = 1.
That number of firepower cut in half and get possible energy pool.
So what we got than.
Light mech - energy pool = 25-20 (20-35t)
Medium mech - 20-25 (40-55t)
Heavy mech - 25-30 (60-75t)
Assault mech - 30-35(80-100t)
That force to split alpha in two, use more grouped weapons or chainfire, leave some time to maneuver and pilot skill using.
But in same time take a little revision to calculating energy.
Like:
1 point per missile (missile weapon) (15 = 15 energy points, 2 = 2 energy points)
damage x 0.5 per shoot (ballistic weapon) (AC2 = 1 energy point, AC20 = 10 energy point.)
damage = energy point (energy weapon) (ERLL laser 9 DMG = 9 energy points)
Why so? Because ballistic\missile users already punished by risk of ammo explosion. C.a.s.e. not always help. Also ammo runs off really quickly (that why not so many trial mech with ballistic weapon, new player can loose all weapons in first few min of battle and become empty. Bad impression). There need balance - laser - ballistic.
I even think about mechanic when weapons have their own heat measurement which fills as fast as frequently you use them right after cooldown. (like that - cooldown takes time, in green status you can fire as always. In red - weapon unaccessible. In yellow - you can fire it again but get heat penalty) Now nearly same I see here but more global - for all weapon you have on mech.
The main base of game was and still now 4 corner mechanic. Armor, speed, heat efficient, firepower.
Pilots of small mech build them around fast-jetlike-engines, use light armor, light structure in cost of free hardpoint and add as much weapon as they can on free hardpoints. Medium balanced between speed, armor and firepower. Some of the now hot even with not so big alpha. Yeah - I mean IS medium. Which with XL engine vs clan weapon become running bombs. heavy and assault always mentioned to be mix-build. For provide longrange support and mid-short brawling. You can make them slower and powerful but place slower, less-weight engine.
Make energy pool chained with engine capacity make some of mech "invalid" or unplayable. Or worse, make all slow except Clan Mech with fixed engines what bring here dis-balance , 'cose IS mech to take same energy pool. speed and maneuver as their enemy - would be forced to have less weapon and... for what need pool if you have no weapon?
Best choice to review some of models in each class and take max possible alpha with heatmanagement = 1.
That number of firepower cut in half and get possible energy pool.
So what we got than.
Light mech - energy pool = 25-20 (20-35t)
Medium mech - 20-25 (40-55t)
Heavy mech - 25-30 (60-75t)
Assault mech - 30-35(80-100t)
That force to split alpha in two, use more grouped weapons or chainfire, leave some time to maneuver and pilot skill using.
But in same time take a little revision to calculating energy.
Like:
1 point per missile (missile weapon) (15 = 15 energy points, 2 = 2 energy points)
damage x 0.5 per shoot (ballistic weapon) (AC2 = 1 energy point, AC20 = 10 energy point.)
damage = energy point (energy weapon) (ERLL laser 9 DMG = 9 energy points)
Why so? Because ballistic\missile users already punished by risk of ammo explosion. C.a.s.e. not always help. Also ammo runs off really quickly (that why not so many trial mech with ballistic weapon, new player can loose all weapons in first few min of battle and become empty. Bad impression). There need balance - laser - ballistic.
I even think about mechanic when weapons have their own heat measurement which fills as fast as frequently you use them right after cooldown. (like that - cooldown takes time, in green status you can fire as always. In red - weapon unaccessible. In yellow - you can fire it again but get heat penalty) Now nearly same I see here but more global - for all weapon you have on mech.
Copy here to not loose the idea...
#3
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 20 August 2016 - 09:45 PM
- After playing more and trying hot builds (which i don't like - below 0.80 heatmanagement) and cold (about 1.2 - 1.57 heat management) I got an idea...
What if mech simply have heat points registred once weapon fired. Make for all mech heat bar equal of Energy Draw but represent coldness of mech. Like:
You have overall points of cold in bar. Lets say - light 20 - medium 35 - heavy 45 - assaults 55.
Each time you bring alpha to battle you spend that points on weapons and become hotter. You can spend it in chain fire and after some delay get them back from heatsinks. Or you can flush them all at one shot - and wait until heatsinks start works and refill cold bar back to full.
Refilling not start immediately after spending points but only after last weapon in alpha stops fire + some delay
Refiling in chain fire starts after last weapon in chain stop fire + a little delay and refill in real time according to overall refill speed.
That makes visible how much heat you can produce and what happens when cold bar went read after depleting. Also it can make Cool Shot to be a coolant booster or small re-filler.
That can make more clear using of heatsinks (less delay to starting produce cold) and also clear heat cap of each mech where all below heat management = 1 can hurt mech or force to use chain fire or group by group use (possible make a cap for alpha). Also it can bring to live mech with small amount of weapon hardpoints and make them playable again.
What if mech simply have heat points registred once weapon fired. Make for all mech heat bar equal of Energy Draw but represent coldness of mech. Like:
You have overall points of cold in bar. Lets say - light 20 - medium 35 - heavy 45 - assaults 55.
Each time you bring alpha to battle you spend that points on weapons and become hotter. You can spend it in chain fire and after some delay get them back from heatsinks. Or you can flush them all at one shot - and wait until heatsinks start works and refill cold bar back to full.
Refilling not start immediately after spending points but only after last weapon in alpha stops fire + some delay
Refiling in chain fire starts after last weapon in chain stop fire + a little delay and refill in real time according to overall refill speed.
That makes visible how much heat you can produce and what happens when cold bar went read after depleting. Also it can make Cool Shot to be a coolant booster or small re-filler.
That can make more clear using of heatsinks (less delay to starting produce cold) and also clear heat cap of each mech where all below heat management = 1 can hurt mech or force to use chain fire or group by group use (possible make a cap for alpha). Also it can bring to live mech with small amount of weapon hardpoints and make them playable again.
Edited by Tiantara, 20 August 2016 - 09:47 PM.
#4
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 21 August 2016 - 03:50 PM
- Well continuing test of mech and their builds.
So what I discover right now:
1. Good idea of massive alpha limiter up to 30 points. For some class that even to much, and few mech with high firepower (lets call it firepower) can split its alpha into smaller portion with delay of 1.5 seconds.
2. Most of builds useless now in live server now working better on PTS. Because have less heat with proper chainfire or right used alpha. Some even can be a little hotter and still take a part in battle, not shutdown after each move.
3. Nearly all builds based on 1.3 and higher heat management (with less powerful alphas) now can battle longer and use many of piloting skills and strategy.
4. Nearly all builds with heat management 1 - 1.2 can use chainfire longer due higher cooldown of all weapon. So, cooldown can be raised a little.
5. Small mech with bad cooling systems now live and run longer. Using chainfire in powerful light now got sense. Using small alpha = 20 have sense and energy pool can be lowered for light to 20-25 points.
6. Medium mech with great power become a little hotter if push all fire in one burst. Splitting helps. Energy pool of 25-30 points have sense.
7. Heavy mech with more "impact" weapon become a little better than mech with long eyes contact. So - one shot ballistic have its advantage now over laser.
8. UAC become hotter than AC. And forced to use chainfire instead of burst fire or portion fire. With lowered cooldown become a little slow... but... it depends. Also, jammed gun seems rises heat as well. I don't think that is good idea.
9. Clan mech. Now loosing side torso or 1\3 of heatsinks deliver great "nerf" impact to damaged clan mech. Now I describe how it goes. Damaged mech without 1\3 heatsinks (thanks to srm, ssrm, lbx, lrm or any multi-damage weapon) become much hotter and forced to use chainfire instead of alpha or half-alpha. After death of one of side torso - mech have overheat even with chainfire. So now pilots softly forced to use less weapon, more Targeting computers and heatsinks. You can say - what are you talking about Tia?? Less weapon?? Yes. Less. Because of targeting computer you get higher crit chance and longer range. Better result.
10. IS mech. Cold mech (with already few weapon hardpoints) become more useful especially if all its firepower under 30 point limit of ED. I mean mech like Dragon Flame. With 2(ER)LL+1SRM6+AC2 and no heatsink with heat management = 1.33(1.27) its become playable again. And with nice stock speed. And same situation with many non-used mech. And I like it. What sense to buy mech if it could work only after hard work... and still bad? Player need that chance to buy mech and grow with it polish skill. Some other looks better with mix builds as well as single weapon model. Mix builds bring on field more tactic and fun. More pilot skill. And they works. Still - XL mech more fragile...
11. Weapons. I love that soft pushing to way of using few long guns and pack of mid-short range weapons. Like in normal battle - first word after long gun. Than - with shortening range, in battle brings medium gun and shortrange. Good. And that works. Not always, but... Also - SSRM become more useful vs light and fast targets. Putting rockets in right proportion in your mech good idea.
12. Role of light \ medium mech. Light become a piranha. They can eat you if you bad at aiming or have no weapons to protect your mech. If you have that weapon - they not so big problem. Mediums now seems like assault protectors. With greater speed than assaults - they can hunt some running around light and try to kill. Light with rocket still dangerous. But mostly because of high Energy points pool (30 now). If they got only 20-25 points - situation got better. Builds with smaller rocket pack seems faster. Anyway - ammo not unlimited.
13. Overheating and shutdown. Now overheating bring less harm. But you still can easy to kill mech with override. For your greed you punished by shutdowned mech. The more overheat you got - the longer you can do nothing. Here all ok.
14. Maps. To stress mech I used normal temperature maps and hot. On cold map all mech looks better, and all build which works on cold map - blows on hot. So keep in mind - best mech = mech with heat management above 1.1 coefficient. I even thinking about adding warning message - your heat management lower than 1.1 and that can bring you into overheating in battle when you use all your firepower. Something like that.
Also cold map for PUG quick game nice, because its just a brawling arena in case of 89% battle - without coordination, tactic and clear plan. Builds \ skills can help, but not always. So making all mech competitive - good move.
In same time most of FW maps pretty hot. And with right tactic most of builds must work (Sorry, I cant test it because PTS have no FW mode. Just calculate rough).
15. Heavy mech. Not a surprise that some model even after putting all weapon you can find have firepower 27-36 max. All other, who have firepower bigger than 70 have ED limit of 30. Split your damage and have no penalty. But be ready to a slower fire rate. In that case mech with firepower = 30 become popular again. I think. Right?
Conclusion.
Energy Draw mechanic need some tweaks. Some weapon maybe need more or less heat points or less penalty (like chained UAC and enormous heat gen from jammed gun). Make new fire pattern based on 1\2+1\2 of fire power or 2\3+1\3 - looks nice. You can even group weapon into 3 part and make every 1.5 second small impact of all 78-90 firepower. But you still have heat - don't forget about it! Using only ED pool won't make you avoid heating.
Play with some forgotten mech was a fun, not a pain. That's good.
And I go test further.
So what I discover right now:
1. Good idea of massive alpha limiter up to 30 points. For some class that even to much, and few mech with high firepower (lets call it firepower) can split its alpha into smaller portion with delay of 1.5 seconds.
2. Most of builds useless now in live server now working better on PTS. Because have less heat with proper chainfire or right used alpha. Some even can be a little hotter and still take a part in battle, not shutdown after each move.
3. Nearly all builds based on 1.3 and higher heat management (with less powerful alphas) now can battle longer and use many of piloting skills and strategy.
4. Nearly all builds with heat management 1 - 1.2 can use chainfire longer due higher cooldown of all weapon. So, cooldown can be raised a little.
5. Small mech with bad cooling systems now live and run longer. Using chainfire in powerful light now got sense. Using small alpha = 20 have sense and energy pool can be lowered for light to 20-25 points.
6. Medium mech with great power become a little hotter if push all fire in one burst. Splitting helps. Energy pool of 25-30 points have sense.
7. Heavy mech with more "impact" weapon become a little better than mech with long eyes contact. So - one shot ballistic have its advantage now over laser.
8. UAC become hotter than AC. And forced to use chainfire instead of burst fire or portion fire. With lowered cooldown become a little slow... but... it depends. Also, jammed gun seems rises heat as well. I don't think that is good idea.
9. Clan mech. Now loosing side torso or 1\3 of heatsinks deliver great "nerf" impact to damaged clan mech. Now I describe how it goes. Damaged mech without 1\3 heatsinks (thanks to srm, ssrm, lbx, lrm or any multi-damage weapon) become much hotter and forced to use chainfire instead of alpha or half-alpha. After death of one of side torso - mech have overheat even with chainfire. So now pilots softly forced to use less weapon, more Targeting computers and heatsinks. You can say - what are you talking about Tia?? Less weapon?? Yes. Less. Because of targeting computer you get higher crit chance and longer range. Better result.
10. IS mech. Cold mech (with already few weapon hardpoints) become more useful especially if all its firepower under 30 point limit of ED. I mean mech like Dragon Flame. With 2(ER)LL+1SRM6+AC2 and no heatsink with heat management = 1.33(1.27) its become playable again. And with nice stock speed. And same situation with many non-used mech. And I like it. What sense to buy mech if it could work only after hard work... and still bad? Player need that chance to buy mech and grow with it polish skill. Some other looks better with mix builds as well as single weapon model. Mix builds bring on field more tactic and fun. More pilot skill. And they works. Still - XL mech more fragile...
11. Weapons. I love that soft pushing to way of using few long guns and pack of mid-short range weapons. Like in normal battle - first word after long gun. Than - with shortening range, in battle brings medium gun and shortrange. Good. And that works. Not always, but... Also - SSRM become more useful vs light and fast targets. Putting rockets in right proportion in your mech good idea.
12. Role of light \ medium mech. Light become a piranha. They can eat you if you bad at aiming or have no weapons to protect your mech. If you have that weapon - they not so big problem. Mediums now seems like assault protectors. With greater speed than assaults - they can hunt some running around light and try to kill. Light with rocket still dangerous. But mostly because of high Energy points pool (30 now). If they got only 20-25 points - situation got better. Builds with smaller rocket pack seems faster. Anyway - ammo not unlimited.
13. Overheating and shutdown. Now overheating bring less harm. But you still can easy to kill mech with override. For your greed you punished by shutdowned mech. The more overheat you got - the longer you can do nothing. Here all ok.
14. Maps. To stress mech I used normal temperature maps and hot. On cold map all mech looks better, and all build which works on cold map - blows on hot. So keep in mind - best mech = mech with heat management above 1.1 coefficient. I even thinking about adding warning message - your heat management lower than 1.1 and that can bring you into overheating in battle when you use all your firepower. Something like that.
Also cold map for PUG quick game nice, because its just a brawling arena in case of 89% battle - without coordination, tactic and clear plan. Builds \ skills can help, but not always. So making all mech competitive - good move.
In same time most of FW maps pretty hot. And with right tactic most of builds must work (Sorry, I cant test it because PTS have no FW mode. Just calculate rough).
15. Heavy mech. Not a surprise that some model even after putting all weapon you can find have firepower 27-36 max. All other, who have firepower bigger than 70 have ED limit of 30. Split your damage and have no penalty. But be ready to a slower fire rate. In that case mech with firepower = 30 become popular again. I think. Right?
Conclusion.
Energy Draw mechanic need some tweaks. Some weapon maybe need more or less heat points or less penalty (like chained UAC and enormous heat gen from jammed gun). Make new fire pattern based on 1\2+1\2 of fire power or 2\3+1\3 - looks nice. You can even group weapon into 3 part and make every 1.5 second small impact of all 78-90 firepower. But you still have heat - don't forget about it! Using only ED pool won't make you avoid heating.
Play with some forgotten mech was a fun, not a pain. That's good.
And I go test further.
Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2016 - 05:31 PM.
#5
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- Knight Errant
- 9,942 posts
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- LocationDueling on Solaris
Posted 21 August 2016 - 05:11 PM
Well its in depth thinking like this topic that will get the fine tuning of this new "power draw" done. Lots of info in this topic, nice. I am sure the guys and girls making this game are doing similar.
I look forward to next weeks update of the test server to see whats next for power draw.
I look forward to next weeks update of the test server to see whats next for power draw.
Edited by Johnny Z, 21 August 2016 - 05:17 PM.
#6
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 21 August 2016 - 05:23 PM
Johnny Z, on 21 August 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:
Well its in depth thinking like this topic that will get the fine tuning of this new "power draw" done. Lots of info in this topic, nice. I am sure the guys and girls making this game are doing similar.
I look forward to next weeks update of the test server to see whats next for power draw.
I look forward to next weeks update of the test server to see whats next for power draw.
- Same here... I love to try new and see how it works under different conditions. So, new update must be really interesting.
My main goal is to check mech which was abandoned because of it's lack of hardpoind small overall firepower comparing to its armor and size. Also builds which run in condition of 1 heat management (which i think have sense to use as base point of calculation for firepower or adequate alpha), lower or higher.
If something I found helps somehow - it's good.
#7
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 23 August 2016 - 08:44 AM
- Well for some reason I switch back to live servers to check some thoughts. And what a surprise I got there... Meeting Staker with 3 type weapon groups used switch between them to do non-stopping damage one after another (with change of range on a fly) was a little... deadly. Instead of burst fire (common for stalker user) I got 3-4 portion of well adjusted damage based on trajectory of my move. Some fire pattern from PTS really works in real battle on Live Server and seems more promising. Also used tactic of piloting around to make him overheat... faild. I was killed.
1 point to ED. battle become more dynamic in same time less deadly as before.
1 point to ED. battle become more dynamic in same time less deadly as before.
#8
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- Liquid Metal
- 2,496 posts
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Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM
What do you mean by "as it should".
Fluff states otherwise.
tt rules state otherwise.
mechwarrior 1-4 state otherwise.
But if you feel its ok then i wont stop you from that.
And yeah, everything but mixed lasers and nerfed cd ac5 works better on pts than live.
4 uac10 dakka got better because everyone loves kdk3
3 ppc because everyone loves ppfld, **** me theres awesome build which can fire 4x4ppc alphas before overheating yea 160 dmg in 16 seconds...
gauss can be fired without charge which tbh i prefer
lpl boats work better because blr wasnt meta enough
clans got shafted by ed as their weaponry got higher dmg and range for the price of longer burn and heat. So now they got hotter longer burning lasers which are more limited in numbers than is ones. Guys ill understand anyone who says that pgi hates clans, now it is justified opinion in my eyes.
8 lrm5 compared to 3 on live, archer 5w rejoices, unless you were like me and packed 8 srm4.
Fluff states otherwise.
tt rules state otherwise.
mechwarrior 1-4 state otherwise.
But if you feel its ok then i wont stop you from that.
And yeah, everything but mixed lasers and nerfed cd ac5 works better on pts than live.
4 uac10 dakka got better because everyone loves kdk3
3 ppc because everyone loves ppfld, **** me theres awesome build which can fire 4x4ppc alphas before overheating yea 160 dmg in 16 seconds...
gauss can be fired without charge which tbh i prefer
lpl boats work better because blr wasnt meta enough
clans got shafted by ed as their weaponry got higher dmg and range for the price of longer burn and heat. So now they got hotter longer burning lasers which are more limited in numbers than is ones. Guys ill understand anyone who says that pgi hates clans, now it is justified opinion in my eyes.
8 lrm5 compared to 3 on live, archer 5w rejoices, unless you were like me and packed 8 srm4.
Edited by davoodoo, 23 August 2016 - 12:40 PM.
#9
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 23 August 2016 - 12:55 PM
davoodoo, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:
What do you mean by "as it should".
Fluff states otherwise.
tt rules state otherwise.
mechwarrior 1-4 state otherwise.
But if you feel its ok then i wont stop you from that.
Fluff states otherwise.
tt rules state otherwise.
mechwarrior 1-4 state otherwise.
But if you feel its ok then i wont stop you from that.
- Welcome to my post!
"As it should" means - what heat is numbered on weapon - that heat you get when fire from it within ED pool. Not like "if you get 2 same guns you got that heat, if you got 5 same guns you got that heat and so on. I clearly feel heat, not some jumping heat from what number of same or differ gun I have in mech.
Something like this. In first day (and whole night) I test my builds, which become little less hot as was before and more effective in same time. Second day I got most useless mech and forgotten model to forge them a little. They become less useless in some (not all) situation.
Easy to say - that now looking on Heat management number I really feel that in mech taken into battle than before.
HM = 1.2 - Live server - hotter from 10% till 23% from what I expect to see in final. Strange heat splash after heat comes to 40%.
HM = 1.2 - PTS - nearly what I think I would get. Equally cold mech usefull in most of map (Except Therma and Volcano in Caustic...) Heat grow without surprising splashes.
Roughly - When I make cold mech within 1.2-1.7 heat management I expect cold mech or at least less suffer from overheat in exchange of speed or firepower. And see in result some enormous splash of heat in normal map - confuse me. Now I see them a little rare. I got from mech what I want without any surprises. Maybe for someone it's bad (like who like to risk and lower heat management to 0.90). I don't know. That why I testing another common and uncommon builds even strange on first look.
Edited by Tiantara, 23 August 2016 - 12:57 PM.
#10
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 24 August 2016 - 01:51 AM
- So, PTS got update and some weapon changes.
1. In the first place I can say that I really miss numbers of overall firepower of installed in mech weapon in MechLab Mech info
I need to see what is exact sum of all weapon power. Not come off and see mech info outside. Besides of Energy Draw which now not equal to power of weapons. That about builds with gauss, AC, srm and LBX weapons on mech. So, in mech lab must be placed whole number of all weapon power. Maybe below list of installed weapon.
Or player need to keep around calculator to see how much firepower he have instead of how many Energy Draw all that consume. Especially when damage not equal Energy Draw.
2. In weapon info must be placed record right after Damage - Energy consume = (number). That make easier way to combine builds with knowledge how many energy draws use weapon in use.
3. Builds based on AC20+4ML become hotter. I run some of them and faster cooldows seems nice. But here comes another problem. On hot map mech got higher chance to get damage after 73% heat. If earlier you got overheat and shutdown on mech, now you definitely got damage from heat. In situation when second part of weapon was fired by mistake... well... it make unwanted damage. Energy consumption can be lowered from 24 to 22... In ED = 30 it make same result but less harm to hot brawlers
4. Seems the Energy pool for all mech still the same. Changing pool for each class would be better idea than upping heat penalty up to 1 for each weapon. Even if only way was to change penalty value - change it from 0.5 to 0.7 make more room to avoid damage but in same time get overheat-shutdown.
5. SRM spread... well.. Not bad, if as well their range got +20-25m. Also strange to see how rockets fly in one side of mech... but damage got another. In testing Grounds 4xSRM4 hit right shoulder of Centurion... but damage apply to CT and left leg. Kinda... strange to see that rockets fly in one way but hit came to another.
6. AC\UAC consume energy faster... But still leave some room to choose - burst all of them or got to ammo-saving mode and use chainfire.
7. Yeah snipers get and impact. Now they fire slower, leave time for mid-close range mech come closer. Now placing mech for snipe and protection of that mech become part of strategy.
8. Gauss. I love that gun since first day when MW:O become available to play. I even remember my first gauss Atlas... yeah... Well. IS gauss become sturdy. Clan become fragile as glass.
Well... or I something got wrong or... chance must be lowered to at least 96%. And I can say why.
After few try in Academy War zone, I found that slight overheating with Gauss cannon can force it to explode if you turn on Override...
I test it several times and always got same result. Problem is... damage apply.
IS mech got damage only to center torso structure. Where only reactor and few small weapons.
Clan mech got damage to random torso part. Hand, leg, side torso... Even small heat damage to section with gauss make it explode and do additional damage, force to loose whole part of mech. So... Override not do damage it kill you instantly if your gauss placed in torsos. Or take with it all lasers in hands.
Well, that is not all. If your armor lost 30% and got crit-hit from another gauss - your gauss dead.
If armor have only 15% - any LBX, SRM, LRM - can rip gauss easier than before. In some case I got gauss explosion with nearly whole armor because... yeah - gauss long and can take damage directly just from LRM rain. few lucky missiles and... BOOM!
All that make Gauss useless like it was long time ago on old nice Atlas. Simply to say - your gauss now can break even if something just shake you armor strong enough. Feels like I fueled mech with nitroglycerin bottles. I'm afraid even move mech now from landing zone.
9. In another case - C-ERPPC can easy to take place of gauss. Same energy consumption. Have no chance to explode, got splash damage... looks cool and take dow ECM. Just place as much heatsink as you can.
So, that all i can find after some test right after getting patch and do some battle \ test grounds \ academy.
All new discoveries would be placed here to not make more posts.
UPD.
One more thing... Even tuning of ED refill speed lowered to 10 from 20 point per second do less harm to many builds and brawlers than increasing number of used by weapon energy and heat penalty.
Also... in original post of Energy Draw was that part of info...
I test it on many mech, but still be able to fire whatever I want without turning on override. No flashing icon. Just go further but with heat penalty.
Seems that bar must have additional 20 points of red zone when you use weapon outside of limit without any icons under. Similar to speed - all above your limit. All under - how much you go outside of it. Make that red zone flash and... all simple. Pilot can be warned about using weapon in critical mode.
1. In the first place I can say that I really miss numbers of overall firepower of installed in mech weapon in MechLab Mech info
I need to see what is exact sum of all weapon power. Not come off and see mech info outside. Besides of Energy Draw which now not equal to power of weapons. That about builds with gauss, AC, srm and LBX weapons on mech. So, in mech lab must be placed whole number of all weapon power. Maybe below list of installed weapon.
Or player need to keep around calculator to see how much firepower he have instead of how many Energy Draw all that consume. Especially when damage not equal Energy Draw.
2. In weapon info must be placed record right after Damage - Energy consume = (number). That make easier way to combine builds with knowledge how many energy draws use weapon in use.
3. Builds based on AC20+4ML become hotter. I run some of them and faster cooldows seems nice. But here comes another problem. On hot map mech got higher chance to get damage after 73% heat. If earlier you got overheat and shutdown on mech, now you definitely got damage from heat. In situation when second part of weapon was fired by mistake... well... it make unwanted damage. Energy consumption can be lowered from 24 to 22... In ED = 30 it make same result but less harm to hot brawlers
4. Seems the Energy pool for all mech still the same. Changing pool for each class would be better idea than upping heat penalty up to 1 for each weapon. Even if only way was to change penalty value - change it from 0.5 to 0.7 make more room to avoid damage but in same time get overheat-shutdown.
5. SRM spread... well.. Not bad, if as well their range got +20-25m. Also strange to see how rockets fly in one side of mech... but damage got another. In testing Grounds 4xSRM4 hit right shoulder of Centurion... but damage apply to CT and left leg. Kinda... strange to see that rockets fly in one way but hit came to another.
6. AC\UAC consume energy faster... But still leave some room to choose - burst all of them or got to ammo-saving mode and use chainfire.
7. Yeah snipers get and impact. Now they fire slower, leave time for mid-close range mech come closer. Now placing mech for snipe and protection of that mech become part of strategy.
8. Gauss. I love that gun since first day when MW:O become available to play. I even remember my first gauss Atlas... yeah... Well. IS gauss become sturdy. Clan become fragile as glass.
Quote
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Well... or I something got wrong or... chance must be lowered to at least 96%. And I can say why.
After few try in Academy War zone, I found that slight overheating with Gauss cannon can force it to explode if you turn on Override...
I test it several times and always got same result. Problem is... damage apply.
IS mech got damage only to center torso structure. Where only reactor and few small weapons.
Clan mech got damage to random torso part. Hand, leg, side torso... Even small heat damage to section with gauss make it explode and do additional damage, force to loose whole part of mech. So... Override not do damage it kill you instantly if your gauss placed in torsos. Or take with it all lasers in hands.
Well, that is not all. If your armor lost 30% and got crit-hit from another gauss - your gauss dead.
If armor have only 15% - any LBX, SRM, LRM - can rip gauss easier than before. In some case I got gauss explosion with nearly whole armor because... yeah - gauss long and can take damage directly just from LRM rain. few lucky missiles and... BOOM!
All that make Gauss useless like it was long time ago on old nice Atlas. Simply to say - your gauss now can break even if something just shake you armor strong enough. Feels like I fueled mech with nitroglycerin bottles. I'm afraid even move mech now from landing zone.
9. In another case - C-ERPPC can easy to take place of gauss. Same energy consumption. Have no chance to explode, got splash damage... looks cool and take dow ECM. Just place as much heatsink as you can.
So, that all i can find after some test right after getting patch and do some battle \ test grounds \ academy.
All new discoveries would be placed here to not make more posts.
UPD.
One more thing... Even tuning of ED refill speed lowered to 10 from 20 point per second do less harm to many builds and brawlers than increasing number of used by weapon energy and heat penalty.
Also... in original post of Energy Draw was that part of info...
Quote
2. Critical Energy Indicator
The Critical Energy Indicator lights up when you have exceeded the amount of Energy currently available in your Energy Status Bar.
When this indicator lights up, you have incurred a Heat Penalty.
When the Critical Energy Indicator is lit you will not be able to able to fire any weapons, unless you activate Override.
The Critical Energy Indicator lights up when you have exceeded the amount of Energy currently available in your Energy Status Bar.
When this indicator lights up, you have incurred a Heat Penalty.
When the Critical Energy Indicator is lit you will not be able to able to fire any weapons, unless you activate Override.
I test it on many mech, but still be able to fire whatever I want without turning on override. No flashing icon. Just go further but with heat penalty.
Seems that bar must have additional 20 points of red zone when you use weapon outside of limit without any icons under. Similar to speed - all above your limit. All under - how much you go outside of it. Make that red zone flash and... all simple. Pilot can be warned about using weapon in critical mode.
Edited by Tiantara, 24 August 2016 - 02:07 AM.
#11
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 04:07 AM
- Yeap. Goodby HBK-4G. Now you become less effective and with fast loosing AC in your shoulder you become useless in case of Scouting. Same with AC20 CTF-OXP, which got more heat and in same time keeps high chance to loose weapon. As well as all other mech with too exposed weapon.
But I'm testing others.
But I'm testing others.
#12
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- The Blade
- 3,459 posts
Member
- LocationGermany
Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:10 AM
Tiantara, on 24 August 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:
- Yeap. Goodby HBK-4G. Now you become less effective and with fast loosing AC in your shoulder you become useless in case of Scouting. Same with AC20 CTF-OXP, which got more heat and in same time keeps high chance to loose weapon. As well as all other mech with too exposed weapon.
But I'm testing others.
But I'm testing others.
Why do you think so?
You can use all weapons with no issue in alternating weapon groups.
Open with AC20, wait 1s then finish with the lasers.
twist away for 2 seconds to shield and then repeat.
Only 1 second difference in between than what we have now.
#13
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:13 AM
- Well.
Instead of new patch changes, better be:
- Change Energy Draw pool for each class. But seems it harder to do. Maybe 30 point is fixed and can't be change independently for each class...
or
- Change speed of refill Energy Draw pool from 1sec per 20points to 1.5sec.
or
- Change amount of refilling points to Energy Draw from 20 point per 1sec to 10-15 point.
Good in new PTS
Adding for longrange weapon longer cooldown was a good idea.
Changing energy use for AC\UAC - nice.
Adding ticking bomb like c-Gauss gun - was awful idea.
Make AC20 take 24 points of ED - not good. Better lower it to 22. Why? Because it not used in cold wide open maps anyway, but on hot small maps it already punish pilot by heat and range
Instead of new patch changes, better be:
- Change Energy Draw pool for each class. But seems it harder to do. Maybe 30 point is fixed and can't be change independently for each class...
or
- Change speed of refill Energy Draw pool from 1sec per 20points to 1.5sec.
or
- Change amount of refilling points to Energy Draw from 20 point per 1sec to 10-15 point.
Good in new PTS
Adding for longrange weapon longer cooldown was a good idea.
Changing energy use for AC\UAC - nice.
Adding ticking bomb like c-Gauss gun - was awful idea.
Make AC20 take 24 points of ED - not good. Better lower it to 22. Why? Because it not used in cold wide open maps anyway, but on hot small maps it already punish pilot by heat and range
Edited by Tiantara, 24 August 2016 - 05:22 AM.
#14
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 05:22 AM
Reno Blade, on 24 August 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:
Why do you think so?
You can use all weapons with no issue in alternating weapon groups.
Open with AC20, wait 1s then finish with the lasers.
twist away for 2 seconds to shield and then repeat.
Only 1 second difference in between than what we have now.
You can use all weapons with no issue in alternating weapon groups.
Open with AC20, wait 1s then finish with the lasers.
twist away for 2 seconds to shield and then repeat.
Only 1 second difference in between than what we have now.
- All style of play HBK-4G was in shooting AC20, pause of 0.5sec, use 3ML (under heat control), than again use AC20 before that cannon was ripped from mech off by 2-3 lucky shoots from any clan mech. Also HBK not so good in shielding in my taste. 2sec enough to wreck HBK by any other medium mech - like Griffin.
But yes... I'll try him more in another map.
#15
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:36 AM
- Any hot clan mech with heat management less than 1.36 must never use override. Even with all basic and elite skills heat splash from 80% to 100% and over - do greater damage than it was before if ED depleted and you fire up something like.. 4C-ERML. So practice to push override button for some seconds to still deliver damage can ends by death.
#16
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- Ace Of Spades
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Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 12:21 PM
- Lets come to builds.
Map for test (on my taste better show problem with heat and do greater impact if you have overheat) - Caustic Valley
So, lets begin.
Light mech (Im not into light mech because i'm not good in piloting on high-speed)
Arctic Cheetah
Weapon 5xC-SPL
ECM + 2xDHS
Alpha 1 = 26% heat \ Alpha 2 = 40% heat (so you can get 4-5 alphas before overheating)
Chainfire = non-stopping fire (good on speed run and damage all you see) with 1% heat every 0.90sec
Conclusion - works nice for chainfire you can add 1 laser above.
Weapon 6xC-ERML
ECM + 1xDHS
Alpha 1 = 85% heat (or a litle more if you run) alpha 2 = overheat or death.
Chainfire = about 4% heat per second.
Conclusion - build was hot, still hot and can be used only as extreme toy. Hot maps kill you.
Weapon 2xC-ERML
ECM + C-Narc + 1xDHS
Conclusion - Unlimited alpha, cold build, not for damage but for highlighting targets on 600m and make some pinpoint damage to mid-ranged mech.
Locust 3M
Weapon 4XML
4xDHS
STD engine 160
Alpha 1 = 34% heat Alpha 2 = 53% Alpha 3 = 72% Alpha 4 = 90%
Chainfire - bad idea.
Conclusion - 2 after 2 laser shot can keep mech cold in same time make damage from different angle and faster that with wait of weapon cooldown. Same build shows well on Pirates Bane's but with ECM.
Locust - 1E
Weapon 5xML
4xDHS
XL engine 190
Alpha 1 = 40% heat Alpha 2 = 61% heat Alpha 3 = 80%
Chainfire - 2% per seconds. Can be used to damage several targets on the run without overheating too much.
Conclusion - Not bad build for hot maps with many places to hide.
Raven 3L \ 4X \ 2X
Weapon - 2xERLL
0xDHS \ 2xDHS
Engine Xl 295 \ 275
Alpha 1 = 29% heat Alpha 2 = 41% heat Alpha 3= 52% heat...
Chainfire - have no sense.
Conclusion - still best sniper build. A bit hotter on 3L and a little more cool on two others. With prolonged cooldown you got time to cool off your engine.
Wolfhound 1 \ 2 \ 1B
Weapon 1xERLL 3xML
5xDHS
Engine STD 210 (After resiz of mech using XL become pointless idea for me)
Alpha 1 = 29% heat. All other also not so hot.
Chainfire - I don't call that chainfire. You fire longrange laser if target too far from you and you bring back mediums when time to mid-range battle. Nearly all weapon in your torso, so you cant loose it to fast.
Conclusion - STD engine keeps you alive for long enough to do Zombie. As well you pretty cold on WLF-2 model. Two others get a little more heat.
Medium Mech (I have few models which I love to use in scout mission and quick game as well with some change in placing ammo)
But about them with heavy and assault mech in next comment...
Map for test (on my taste better show problem with heat and do greater impact if you have overheat) - Caustic Valley
So, lets begin.
Light mech (Im not into light mech because i'm not good in piloting on high-speed)
Arctic Cheetah
Weapon 5xC-SPL
ECM + 2xDHS
Alpha 1 = 26% heat \ Alpha 2 = 40% heat (so you can get 4-5 alphas before overheating)
Chainfire = non-stopping fire (good on speed run and damage all you see) with 1% heat every 0.90sec
Conclusion - works nice for chainfire you can add 1 laser above.
Weapon 6xC-ERML
ECM + 1xDHS
Alpha 1 = 85% heat (or a litle more if you run) alpha 2 = overheat or death.
Chainfire = about 4% heat per second.
Conclusion - build was hot, still hot and can be used only as extreme toy. Hot maps kill you.
Weapon 2xC-ERML
ECM + C-Narc + 1xDHS
Conclusion - Unlimited alpha, cold build, not for damage but for highlighting targets on 600m and make some pinpoint damage to mid-ranged mech.
Locust 3M
Weapon 4XML
4xDHS
STD engine 160
Alpha 1 = 34% heat Alpha 2 = 53% Alpha 3 = 72% Alpha 4 = 90%
Chainfire - bad idea.
Conclusion - 2 after 2 laser shot can keep mech cold in same time make damage from different angle and faster that with wait of weapon cooldown. Same build shows well on Pirates Bane's but with ECM.
Locust - 1E
Weapon 5xML
4xDHS
XL engine 190
Alpha 1 = 40% heat Alpha 2 = 61% heat Alpha 3 = 80%
Chainfire - 2% per seconds. Can be used to damage several targets on the run without overheating too much.
Conclusion - Not bad build for hot maps with many places to hide.
Raven 3L \ 4X \ 2X
Weapon - 2xERLL
0xDHS \ 2xDHS
Engine Xl 295 \ 275
Alpha 1 = 29% heat Alpha 2 = 41% heat Alpha 3= 52% heat...
Chainfire - have no sense.
Conclusion - still best sniper build. A bit hotter on 3L and a little more cool on two others. With prolonged cooldown you got time to cool off your engine.
Wolfhound 1 \ 2 \ 1B
Weapon 1xERLL 3xML
5xDHS
Engine STD 210 (After resiz of mech using XL become pointless idea for me)
Alpha 1 = 29% heat. All other also not so hot.
Chainfire - I don't call that chainfire. You fire longrange laser if target too far from you and you bring back mediums when time to mid-range battle. Nearly all weapon in your torso, so you cant loose it to fast.
Conclusion - STD engine keeps you alive for long enough to do Zombie. As well you pretty cold on WLF-2 model. Two others get a little more heat.
Medium Mech (I have few models which I love to use in scout mission and quick game as well with some change in placing ammo)
But about them with heavy and assault mech in next comment...
Edited by Tiantara, 24 August 2016 - 12:32 PM.
#17
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 24 August 2016 - 10:52 PM
- As we see a few example of laser light mech - ED make them opportunity to become a piranha mech. More useful in whole until SSRM kill them. Maybe I retest others models, but from all light I choose that because of more time playing on them and have more experience about weak and strong sides...
Now Medium Mech.
Just I say before - I post builds which I know and can say difference between how they work in Live, PTS1 and PTS2 servers.
Map - Caustic Valley.
CN9-AH
Weapon - 3xSRM4 \ 1xLB10-X
2xDHS
Engine STD 200
Split shots - LB10-X and 3SRM4 as well as alpha fits to ED pool of 30.
Conclusion - mech was changed from 3xSRM6 to 3xSRM4 to make it wield LB10-X. With changes made to SRM accuracy lower I think about make it Artemis. But later change my mind back. It works on pretty hot maps even better than on live server. With STD engine it can stay longer and lowered incoming damage by ED let him brawl more effective.
CN9-AL
Weapon - 4xMPL \ 2xSRM6+Art.
7xDHS
Engine STD 200
Alpha 1 = 50% Alpha 2 = 78% - Alpha 3 = shutdouwn
Chainfire - 4xMPL after pause 2xSRM6+Art. - less heat, with nearly same result.
Conclusion - Mech still hot even with 7xDHS. Heat go dow really slow, but prolonged cooldown of weapons give you a little time to cool off. In extreme situation you can blow 1-2 alphas, but most useful fire patter will be split fire with little delay about 0.5 sec. Also - artemis become really helpful. And yes, that mech from zombie.
Weapon - 2xLL \ 2xML \ 2xSSRM2
7xDHS
Conclusion - That build become strangely working now. Fire from LL and ML when you in range leave you pretty cold. In same time at more close combat you got SSRM2, which can add some damage to light mech and shake it. I know, SSRM2 not the best weapon, bun in some situation it can be useful. More than enough to take off some armor from light, confuse it and do damage with your main weapon. But there is a problem - ECM light mech... so...
CN9-A
Weapon - 2xMPL \ 3xSRM6
6xDHS
Engine STD 200
Alpha 1 = 40% Alpha 2 = 64% Alpha 3 = 87%
Chainfire same as CN9-AL
Conclusion - another mech with ability to rip off assault mech leg in 3-4 attack when moving around with possibility to shield from huge fire for some time. Now become a little less hot and in same time - you can take off some DHS if you change fire pattern to split fire as in CN9-AL
HBK-4H
Weapon - 1xGauss \ 2xML
Engine STD 250
Conclusion - Gauss Hunter as I it remember back to action. Without charging mechanic that BK reminds me Hollander mech, which I love from MechCommander strategy. No heat, few laser to support, pretty nice position of gauss in body. Well use in from-corner battle. Big gauss cooldown give you time to reposition mech and shield gun from attack of LRM or light mech. Taking place from flank you can help your teammates by taking down enemy weapons with high accuracy. But, you have only 30 shot, so make them right.
HBK-4G \ HBK-4H
Weapon - 1xAC20 \ 3xML
Engine STD 250
Conlusion - because of high heat I prefer use no alpha on them but chain AC20 with 3xML, so ED do small change to build at all. On PTS2 you need to wait a little longer than before, but it compensates by bigger weapon range and speed on both models bring HBK back to position of nice sturdy brawler who can kill Light and protect assault from them. Still worst than any SRM mediums. But I like it.
HBK-4SP
Weapon - 5xSPL \ 2xSRM6+Artemis
4xDHS
Engine STD 250
Conclusion - That mech was cold, still cold and still only close combat mech who live long only because of quirks. Without them - he junk. Best choice to take a piece from assaults if you get enough close to them. Split your weapon in two groups - laser and missile, fire group by group, go off battle when heat go up to 78% and continue in same pattern.
HBK-IIC-C \ HBK-IIC
Weapon = 1xC-LB20-X \ 2xC-ERML
7xC-DHS
Engine C-XL 250
Conclusion - All alpha fits to ED 30. You nearly have no face-to-face time and can do burst damage 20 to mech you see. As before - best for make non-armor pats of target suffer. It need some pilot skill to be not caught by light or walk in front big guns, but in exchange you got no worries about heat at all. Also you can take off some of heatsinks and put more ammo or laser. I prefer to use it on large targets and realy small, where spread damage helps rip off light mech leg. Also you have max armor for that pretty fragile mech.
HBK-IIC-B
Weapon - 4xSSRM6 \ 2xC-ERML
6xC-DHS \ BAP
Engine C-XL 250
Conclusion - You probably never alpha on that mech. After laser shot you got target lock on mech and spew 24 rocket searching for devastation. In that moment you starting shielding maneuver and wait when missiles cooldown. Or you can swith to chainfire and just dance around target. Both tactic works well on all servers but a little worse on PTS2 beacause of broken modificator.
They still consume 9 energy. 4xSSRM6 cooldown dont give you a chance to overheat. Pretty nice. Rocket chainfire make that build best anti-light mech build to protect assaults mech. OMG, I really see tactic in builds? I give up hope to see mech which can work on specific role and make in good. When some light best from another and in same time worst in case of batle with mech who specialize to kill them like medium and so on... Hope its not my imagination.
CDA-2A
Weapon - 6xML
Engine - XL 340
4xDHS
Conclusion - On PTS and PTS2 shows better than in live. No GH no overheat. Cooldown of laser give you time to cool of engine. In rare case you can go up to 78% of heat, and only in case of wrecked DHS. yeah, if you loose 1-2 DHS mech become hotter, but playable. Maybe I use it now more often. Also you can still choose pattern of 3ML+3ML to adjuct fire to chosen component of enemy when he turning for no to waste time.
CBR-27B
Weapon - 3xERLL
5xDHS
Engine STD 250
Conlusion - still nice sniper mech. Long cooldown give you time to put heat down and your enemy to come close. In brawling you'll be dead in 1-2 min. On range you can do more damage than Raven 3L and even take some LRM shots without any worry.
CBR-20 \ CBR-27
Weapon - 3xML + 2xLL \ 2xML + 2xERLL
5xDHS \ 7xDHS
Engine - STD 250.
Conclusion - CBR-20 have more than 30ED. Split fire helps you to deal with it. Even with 33ED you have nice alpha if need. CBR-25 playstile diferrent. You start with longrange and finish with mid range. Use alpha if it really need. Both mech builded around zombit mode. You can get wrecked both hands and side torso, but still have weapon to fight. So, pilots skill can help you.
NVA-B \ NVA-Prime \ NVA-S
Weapon - 6xC-ERML
10xC-DHS.
Engine - Fixed - C-XL 250
Conclusion - still hot mech. I choose fire 3 lasef after 3 from both hand or use corner shield. Also good build - 4xC-ERML + 4xC-MG. For my taste hotter build make high risk to become shutdown. Ah... and something more. DHS now dies more quickly than before. So, loosing 1\3 of them can make you mech really slow on fire because of heat.
SHC-Prime \ SHC-P \ SHC-B
Weapon - 2xC-ERLL + 1xC-ERML \ 2xC-ERML + 2xC-SSRM6
ECM
Engine - Fixed - C-XL 270
Conclusion - I love shadow Cat from moment I got them. Best snipers than Raven or Crab. Can mount ballistic (gauss, but i would not reccomend to that because of really bad implementation of C-Gauss 100% chance to blow. I mean it your gauss got hit from LRM - BOOM!) All variants works well. You have ECM and jump ability. You not affected by 30ED. You can snipe or you can run after medium and do damage under ECM cover.
BJ-1 \ BJ-1DC
Weapon - 2xAC2 + 4xMPL \ 6xML + 2xMG
3xDHS \ 8xDHS
Engine - STD 180
Conclusion - another cold mech. Both have strong side and weak side. BJ-1 now become nice long-mid range mech. BJ-1DC - more brawler with MG for critting open structure. I have no many time to play them because I simply dont like how they look. Yeah - I take mech by it's visual design more, than ability to fight sometimes. And tryimg to make them working. Like DRG-FLAME.
But, about heavy and Assault mech, my favorite class - in another comment in that post.
Now Medium Mech.
Just I say before - I post builds which I know and can say difference between how they work in Live, PTS1 and PTS2 servers.
Map - Caustic Valley.
CN9-AH
Weapon - 3xSRM4 \ 1xLB10-X
2xDHS
Engine STD 200
Split shots - LB10-X and 3SRM4 as well as alpha fits to ED pool of 30.
Conclusion - mech was changed from 3xSRM6 to 3xSRM4 to make it wield LB10-X. With changes made to SRM accuracy lower I think about make it Artemis. But later change my mind back. It works on pretty hot maps even better than on live server. With STD engine it can stay longer and lowered incoming damage by ED let him brawl more effective.
CN9-AL
Weapon - 4xMPL \ 2xSRM6+Art.
7xDHS
Engine STD 200
Alpha 1 = 50% Alpha 2 = 78% - Alpha 3 = shutdouwn
Chainfire - 4xMPL after pause 2xSRM6+Art. - less heat, with nearly same result.
Conclusion - Mech still hot even with 7xDHS. Heat go dow really slow, but prolonged cooldown of weapons give you a little time to cool off. In extreme situation you can blow 1-2 alphas, but most useful fire patter will be split fire with little delay about 0.5 sec. Also - artemis become really helpful. And yes, that mech from zombie.
Weapon - 2xLL \ 2xML \ 2xSSRM2
7xDHS
Conclusion - That build become strangely working now. Fire from LL and ML when you in range leave you pretty cold. In same time at more close combat you got SSRM2, which can add some damage to light mech and shake it. I know, SSRM2 not the best weapon, bun in some situation it can be useful. More than enough to take off some armor from light, confuse it and do damage with your main weapon. But there is a problem - ECM light mech... so...
CN9-A
Weapon - 2xMPL \ 3xSRM6
6xDHS
Engine STD 200
Alpha 1 = 40% Alpha 2 = 64% Alpha 3 = 87%
Chainfire same as CN9-AL
Conclusion - another mech with ability to rip off assault mech leg in 3-4 attack when moving around with possibility to shield from huge fire for some time. Now become a little less hot and in same time - you can take off some DHS if you change fire pattern to split fire as in CN9-AL
HBK-4H
Weapon - 1xGauss \ 2xML
Engine STD 250
Conclusion - Gauss Hunter as I it remember back to action. Without charging mechanic that BK reminds me Hollander mech, which I love from MechCommander strategy. No heat, few laser to support, pretty nice position of gauss in body. Well use in from-corner battle. Big gauss cooldown give you time to reposition mech and shield gun from attack of LRM or light mech. Taking place from flank you can help your teammates by taking down enemy weapons with high accuracy. But, you have only 30 shot, so make them right.
HBK-4G \ HBK-4H
Weapon - 1xAC20 \ 3xML
Engine STD 250
Conlusion - because of high heat I prefer use no alpha on them but chain AC20 with 3xML, so ED do small change to build at all. On PTS2 you need to wait a little longer than before, but it compensates by bigger weapon range and speed on both models bring HBK back to position of nice sturdy brawler who can kill Light and protect assault from them. Still worst than any SRM mediums. But I like it.
HBK-4SP
Weapon - 5xSPL \ 2xSRM6+Artemis
4xDHS
Engine STD 250
Conclusion - That mech was cold, still cold and still only close combat mech who live long only because of quirks. Without them - he junk. Best choice to take a piece from assaults if you get enough close to them. Split your weapon in two groups - laser and missile, fire group by group, go off battle when heat go up to 78% and continue in same pattern.
HBK-IIC-C \ HBK-IIC
Weapon = 1xC-LB20-X \ 2xC-ERML
7xC-DHS
Engine C-XL 250
Conclusion - All alpha fits to ED 30. You nearly have no face-to-face time and can do burst damage 20 to mech you see. As before - best for make non-armor pats of target suffer. It need some pilot skill to be not caught by light or walk in front big guns, but in exchange you got no worries about heat at all. Also you can take off some of heatsinks and put more ammo or laser. I prefer to use it on large targets and realy small, where spread damage helps rip off light mech leg. Also you have max armor for that pretty fragile mech.
HBK-IIC-B
Weapon - 4xSSRM6 \ 2xC-ERML
6xC-DHS \ BAP
Engine C-XL 250
Conclusion - You probably never alpha on that mech. After laser shot you got target lock on mech and spew 24 rocket searching for devastation. In that moment you starting shielding maneuver and wait when missiles cooldown. Or you can swith to chainfire and just dance around target. Both tactic works well on all servers but a little worse on PTS2 beacause of broken modificator.
Quote
C-SRM 6
• Energy Consumption decreased to 7.5 Energy total (from 9)
• Energy Consumption decreased to 7.5 Energy total (from 9)
They still consume 9 energy. 4xSSRM6 cooldown dont give you a chance to overheat. Pretty nice. Rocket chainfire make that build best anti-light mech build to protect assaults mech. OMG, I really see tactic in builds? I give up hope to see mech which can work on specific role and make in good. When some light best from another and in same time worst in case of batle with mech who specialize to kill them like medium and so on... Hope its not my imagination.
CDA-2A
Weapon - 6xML
Engine - XL 340
4xDHS
Conclusion - On PTS and PTS2 shows better than in live. No GH no overheat. Cooldown of laser give you time to cool of engine. In rare case you can go up to 78% of heat, and only in case of wrecked DHS. yeah, if you loose 1-2 DHS mech become hotter, but playable. Maybe I use it now more often. Also you can still choose pattern of 3ML+3ML to adjuct fire to chosen component of enemy when he turning for no to waste time.
CBR-27B
Weapon - 3xERLL
5xDHS
Engine STD 250
Conlusion - still nice sniper mech. Long cooldown give you time to put heat down and your enemy to come close. In brawling you'll be dead in 1-2 min. On range you can do more damage than Raven 3L and even take some LRM shots without any worry.
CBR-20 \ CBR-27
Weapon - 3xML + 2xLL \ 2xML + 2xERLL
5xDHS \ 7xDHS
Engine - STD 250.
Conclusion - CBR-20 have more than 30ED. Split fire helps you to deal with it. Even with 33ED you have nice alpha if need. CBR-25 playstile diferrent. You start with longrange and finish with mid range. Use alpha if it really need. Both mech builded around zombit mode. You can get wrecked both hands and side torso, but still have weapon to fight. So, pilots skill can help you.
NVA-B \ NVA-Prime \ NVA-S
Weapon - 6xC-ERML
10xC-DHS.
Engine - Fixed - C-XL 250
Conclusion - still hot mech. I choose fire 3 lasef after 3 from both hand or use corner shield. Also good build - 4xC-ERML + 4xC-MG. For my taste hotter build make high risk to become shutdown. Ah... and something more. DHS now dies more quickly than before. So, loosing 1\3 of them can make you mech really slow on fire because of heat.
SHC-Prime \ SHC-P \ SHC-B
Weapon - 2xC-ERLL + 1xC-ERML \ 2xC-ERML + 2xC-SSRM6
ECM
Engine - Fixed - C-XL 270
Conclusion - I love shadow Cat from moment I got them. Best snipers than Raven or Crab. Can mount ballistic (gauss, but i would not reccomend to that because of really bad implementation of C-Gauss 100% chance to blow. I mean it your gauss got hit from LRM - BOOM!) All variants works well. You have ECM and jump ability. You not affected by 30ED. You can snipe or you can run after medium and do damage under ECM cover.
BJ-1 \ BJ-1DC
Weapon - 2xAC2 + 4xMPL \ 6xML + 2xMG
3xDHS \ 8xDHS
Engine - STD 180
Conclusion - another cold mech. Both have strong side and weak side. BJ-1 now become nice long-mid range mech. BJ-1DC - more brawler with MG for critting open structure. I have no many time to play them because I simply dont like how they look. Yeah - I take mech by it's visual design more, than ability to fight sometimes. And tryimg to make them working. Like DRG-FLAME.
But, about heavy and Assault mech, my favorite class - in another comment in that post.
#18
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:45 PM
- Copy that here, for not to loose.
Spoiler
#19
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 25 August 2016 - 01:56 AM
- Since we got 100% chance for gauss to explode and do impact to mech structure...
I suggest lower that chance to 96% (or else each heat damage or lucky LRM make it boom)
In same time, since Gauss have longer cooldown, make chance of explode 88-90% when it charges and back to 96% when it ready to shoot.
That make gun really tool of pro-pilot and in same time change back from such fragile state when even sneeze can break it.
100% too much.
I suggest lower that chance to 96% (or else each heat damage or lucky LRM make it boom)
In same time, since Gauss have longer cooldown, make chance of explode 88-90% when it charges and back to 96% when it ready to shoot.
That make gun really tool of pro-pilot and in same time change back from such fragile state when even sneeze can break it.
100% too much.
#20
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- Ace Of Spades
- 815 posts
Member
Posted 25 August 2016 - 04:01 AM
- After some plays with overdepleted ED pool and some overheating on my Atlas and Dire Wolf... I got and idea about some visual add-on to HUD.
So. Don't took that too seriously its just an example based on screenshot.
I have no time to redraw whole HUD close to original.
A
- No heat, or little heat according to map temp.
- Full energy pool (30 ED points)
B
- Some heat (after alpha, chainfire, missile launch...)
- Depleted energy pool (0 ED points)
C
- Heat and overheat (and how much of it)
- Overdepleted energy pool (-10 \ - 18 ED points)
That can help understand how to play, what to use and in what danger your mech now.
We got penalty for overdepleted ED - let us see how much.
We god shutdown or override heat damage - let as information how much overheat we have. lets say - 115% = death of engine and 101% - damage and shutdown at exact 99% or 100% of heat.
Something like we have in MASC on Shadow Cats. We can use it, but in some overuse we got damage to legs.
Same here.
So. Don't took that too seriously its just an example based on screenshot.
I have no time to redraw whole HUD close to original.
A
- No heat, or little heat according to map temp.
- Full energy pool (30 ED points)
B
- Some heat (after alpha, chainfire, missile launch...)
- Depleted energy pool (0 ED points)
C
- Heat and overheat (and how much of it)
- Overdepleted energy pool (-10 \ - 18 ED points)
That can help understand how to play, what to use and in what danger your mech now.
We got penalty for overdepleted ED - let us see how much.
We god shutdown or override heat damage - let as information how much overheat we have. lets say - 115% = death of engine and 101% - damage and shutdown at exact 99% or 100% of heat.
Something like we have in MASC on Shadow Cats. We can use it, but in some overuse we got damage to legs.
Same here.
Edited by Tiantara, 25 August 2016 - 02:59 PM.
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