63 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

From what I've seen and what I've tested myself in the current implementation we can use larger alphas than before and get away with it, quite the opposite to the goal of this mechanic.

On River city test map: Mauler 1P with 4xERPPC and 20 DH, fire all 4 in the current game build and you get above 100% heat and shut down. Same build on the PTS, if you alpha you only go to 69% heat.

Surely this can't be intended?

[FupDup]

Unintended Consequences™.

The heat penalty could probably stand to be increased a bit.

[Hit the Deck]

It's true that some weapon combos are cooler now, many just works as well as before like some people have mentioned. Working as intended or not?

Anyway, I like that dual AC/20 is cooler now.

[Mechteric]

69% heat is still really hot, you would need some serious cool down time before doing another alpha. Instead you could have fire a pair, waited not even a second, then fired the other pair and not be anywhere near 69% right?

[Lily from animove]

I am not sure if firign lasers is an isntant power draw or drainign energy via beamduration, but try the following:

11 CRMPL DWF
10 CERMPL DWF with the rets heatsinks.

thats either 88 or 80 damage without shutting down. thats total overkill if you ask me.
also 4 LPL configs will work that way, less of an alpha and nt pinpoint but surely massive.

I would sugegst a truly penalising system, and make every exceeded ehat be 3 penalty heat on the heatscale.

CapperDeluxe, on 19 August 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

69% heat is still really hot, you would need some serious cool down time before doing another alpha. Instead you could have fire a pair, waited not even a second, then fired the other pair and not be anywhere near 69% right?

whe there is 20 enegry/second regeneration you will still tirgger alot heat with waiting less than a second, and it still makes a huge different on a twisting mech if it lands in a single PP fashion or not.

a 40damage alseralpha is not the same as a 40damage PPC alpha, PP vs hitscan. The system should be not dealing them equally. Yet the massive laserboaring in some cases maks HUGE alphas possible.

ne of the reasons is PGI's immense and DHS Scalable heatbar, which was the issue in the old system and eveals to be an issue AGAIN. and soemhow PGI isn't willing to touch that stupid cap.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 August 2016 - 05:37 AM.

[meteorol]

You can alpha 5 lpl twice now.

Just like 4srm 6 / lbx 20.

Difference is one of both has about 200m effective Range and even then spreads damage like hell.

[Lily from animove]

meteorol, on 19 August 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

You can alpha 5 lpl twice now.

Just like 4srm 6 / lbx 20.

Difference is one of both has about 200m effective Range and even then spreads damage like hell.

yeah ands thats just wrong, as it is.

[Yellonet]

CapperDeluxe, on 19 August 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

69% heat is still really hot, you would need some serious cool down time before doing another alpha. Instead you could have fire a pair, waited not even a second, then fired the other pair and not be anywhere near 69% right?

That got me up to about 57%-ish if I remember correctly.

[Znail]

They even mention this in the article, so it's hardly unintended. Higher alphas will be possible, but with a penalty to the sustained dps. But this system is on the other hand more restricted in that you can't get around it by mixing diffrent ghost heat groups. You could get some seriously large alphas in the old system without any penalty at all, when now you will face a penalty no matter what if you go above the limit.

Personally so do I think we will see a general reduction in alpha damage with the new system.

[Kurbeks]

Banshee can do 7LPL alpha now

Edited by Kurbeks, 19 August 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[Yellonet]

Some combo's seem to be hotter, at least if you do several alphas in a row, but the system still allow larger "first alphas". While everything might seem OK at first, 4 vs 4 is likely the biggest factor in keeping TTK manageable.

I'm pretty sure that if released this iteration of the game would be worse than the current one.
We need worse consequences for high alphas compared to the current game build.

Edited by Yellonet, 19 August 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

I think many of us we underestimated how well the current Live server Ghost Heat worked, since we have loaded our mechs with weapon setups around it to reduce the likelihood of generating ghost heat....

The question that could be asked, how much will PGI tinker with the PTS settings, or/and should they add actual movement penalties (2-3 thresholds)? I prefer a more manageable setup with actual heat scale effects causing other issues with a mech. So that if a mech is running from one location to another, does that player release a full alpha, understanding that its speed may be cut to 20-40% while its agility is reduce, or fire off a smaller set while preserving some of its speed?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 August 2016 - 06:37 AM.

[Yellonet]

Kurbeks, on 19 August 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Banshee can do 7LPL alpha now

So 70 points of damage.
Wth decent aim that has the potential to instagib a whole bunch of different mechs.
This is exactly what I thought the game didn't need. Ugh

[SilentScreamer]

Kurbeks, on 19 August 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Banshee can do 7LPL alpha now

Banshee 7 LPL x 10 dmg = 70 dmg
Nova 12 ERML x 7 dmg = 84 dmg

Looking at only damage the stock Nova Prime with 12 ER medium lasers still wins on Alpha, however the LPL have a shorter beam duration so damage will likely be more concentrated from the Banshee than the Nova.. Still not a good idea for veteran pilots to Alpha if it results in a shutdown.

The Energy Draw system currently seems to currently limit hybrid mech builds more than pure energy builds. The Heat Scale is still what stops me from constantly using Alpha in energy boats.

It'll be interesting to see what strange builds come from this system like the "Direstar" and "Boomphract".

[Gas Guzzler]

You guys are right we should drop the whole system.

[Lily from animove]

SilentScreamer, on 19 August 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

Banshee 7 LPL x 10 dmg = 70 dmg
Nova 12 ERML x 7 dmg = 84 dmg

Looking at only damage the stock Nova Prime with 12 ER medium lasers still wins on Alpha, however the LPL have a shorter beam duration so damage will likely be more concentrated from the Banshee than the Nova.. Still not a good idea for veteran pilots to Alpha if it results in a shutdown.

The Energy Draw system currently seems to currently limit hybrid mech builds more than pure energy builds. The Heat Scale is still what stops me from constantly using Alpha in energy boats.

It'll be interesting to see what strange builds come from this system like the "Direstar" and "Boomphract".

just witht he difference that thise LPL have more range and even a LOT less beamduration.

the issue is that those mechs are tunrining into ideal pokemechs. but its seriously no porblem if PGI adjusts the negative energy tio heat ratio, exceeding your energy limit should truly have a dramatical impact.

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

You guys are right we should drop the whole system.

not needed, well they coudl drop it and limit heat to 30, that woudl already affect a lot. if they truly insist on the ehat system together with energy draw.they just need to find the right penalty multiplier to prevent people going over the energy limit.

[Knighthawk26]

No one likes to be one shot killed. Some system to prevent that is needed and the current "ghost heat" setup does help, though it is not great. Time will tell whether the energy drain idea will improve this for the game.

A bigger problem than alpha striking is players cheating and using "aim bots" so that they hit 100% perfect CT or head while both mechs are moving at range. I would guess more players get frustrated by this than real alpha strike kills when a player sits still too long exposed and gets a dual gauss to the head. So let's hear about the players getting punished or banned for cheating. Put some numbers up on the forums so cheaters have something to fear and the rest of us can see that PGI takes this seriously as well.

[Yellonet]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 August 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

You guys are right we should drop the whole system.

No, the system just needs some tweaking, but even higher alphas than we have now is certainly not needed.

Edited by Yellonet, 19 August 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yellonet, on 19 August 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

No, the system just needs some tweaking, but even higher alphas than we have now is certainly not needed.

Except no one will be using those alphas, because they are absurd.

[Dee Eight]

Anyone test b33f's direstar out ? I believe pre-ghost heat he got 3 shots before he went boom.