167 replies to this topic

[Kaptain]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

everything you need to know
-total power 30
-replenichment 20/s
-all weapons exept spread splash 1draw/1damage
-splash en spread damage 0.75draw/1damage

now compare this to the multiple pages of tables you nead to calculate you GH..

Exactly. Thats far easier than exponential charts.

[Tiantara]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

thttp://mwomercs.com/news/2016/08/1613-energy-draw-public-test-session
you had to go past this page to download it, if u did not deem it nesesary to read the notes of the PTS then maybe you are not the kind of tester they are looking for...

- Last few hours seaching for quick game become too long... yeah... so now i can check most unpopular mech with different builds on testing ground and, when lucky enough - in quick game. I'm more interested in how playable become mech which now on live servers plays as junk. So - stock builds, less heatsink builds, power centered builds, slow\fast, mixed ranged and asymmetrical, cold (1.4-1.57 heat management) and hot (0,76 - 1.1 heat management). Interesting what got players who just buy new mech, take it in half of basic skills and play with others. And how that differs from what we have now.

[davoodoo]

Kaptain, on 21 August 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Exactly. Thats far easier than exponential charts.

You dont need to learn any charts everything is given to you in the mechlab...

ffs i go look at my 4 llas misery.

i see yellow "!" inside triangle, i click on it and i see
"WARNING: Firing more than 3 Large Lasers simultaneously will result in a heat spike higher than normal"

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[Tiantara]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b9b516de4e410d4

on the PTS this is not a bad build ... due to its mg's (dont forget the 25%cd reduction on them)

thats 6.24 heatles dps of the mg's alone on a mastered mech. in a world where every other weapon has been nerfed by 15% and alphas are much lower, yes that helps a load...

- With XL engine... What about make something strong but based on STD instead? ^_~
I always think that XL is risk factor for bringing more power but in same time higher chance to die not main goal for everymech.

[Tiantara]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

You dont need to learn any charts everything is given to you in the mechlab...

ffs i go look at my 4 llas misery.

i see yellow "!" inside triangle, i click on it and i see
"WARNING: Firing more than 3 Large Lasers simultaneously will result in a heat spike higher than normal"

- maybe add new one - red with "Warning: Fire more than 4(5) (weapon name) simultaneously will result an overheat and shutdown your mech". We already have message about risk of turning on override and no one complains that his mech blow up after overheat (or some one does?). You get message, if you agree - use it. If not - take less weapon.
Oh and we even have message if mech have not enough heatsinks (you mech too hot to operate, hehehe).

Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[L3mming2]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Players chose what kills effectively.

If boats are easy to use then they increase chance that your fire will hit enemy which in turn increases dmg done which decreases amount of time enemy stays alive under fire.

You cant root alphas out from the game when you have so much cover on the place and cooldowns are so long.
Its obvious choice to wisely use ppfld when you have only few seconds of contact with enemy before they fall back to cover...


Would rather use this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6d77882597ba5ea

Less face time so i dont need to stare at my enemy at 120m with xl engine in a medium mech to put dmg in. This btw will more likely end with me being dead rather than enemy...

on the current PTS that build only has 6.81 dps left.. due to damage reduction and +15%cd in life build thats way better but on the pts not so much (imo)

[davoodoo]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

on the current PTS that build only has 6.81 dps left.. due to damage reduction and +15%cd in life build thats way better but on the pts not so much (imo)

Doesnt require me to facetank enemy at 120m with lightly armor medium mech with xl where doubletapping with 3 uac10 will blow your side torso off...

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[L3mming2]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

You dont need to learn any charts everything is given to you in the mechlab...

ffs i go look at my 4 llas misery.

i see yellow "!" inside triangle, i click on it and i see
"WARNING: Firing more than 3 Large Lasers simultaneously will result in a heat spike higher than normal"

well the higher than normal is it +0.9 heat or +17.05 heat ? both are posible for 1 weapon to manny and no where in game they tell you how much...

[Tiantara]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

well the higher than normal is it +0.9 heat or +17.05 heat ? both are posible for 1 weapon to manny and no where in game they tell you how much...

- Better say - less than 50% of heat bar or more than 50% of heat bar. Or over 90% and you get shutdown.

[davoodoo]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

well the higher than normal is it +0.9 heat or +17.05 heat ? both are posible for 1 weapon to manny and no where in game they tell you how much...

Well tell me how much penatly i will get per point of energy, how much energy i have and how much i regen per second from ingame sources only, maybe you can show me where it says that how much energy srm2 will eat??

Cause if you need to read through this wall of text
https://mwomercs.com...ic-test-session

You can read through this organized table...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[Gamuray]

cazidin, on 21 August 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

How is Ghost Heat anywhere close in votes to Energy Draw?! Energy Draw is vastly superior already, and will be even better with a few simple tweaks!

Because it ignores how effective an alpha is. It penalized solely on damage thrown downrange, even it it's a total mess of different trajectories, burn times, and spreads that are completely ineffective against an opponent, it will be treated as if it is a pinpoint alpha strike. Alpha striking is NOT the TTK issue in and of itself. ACCURATE alpha striking is the issue. Even eaten an alpha strike from a mixed build? Doesn't hurt so bad compared to a boated pinpoint build.

[L3mming2]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Well tell me how much penatly i will get per point of energy, how much energy i have and how much i regen per second from ingame sources only, maybe you can show me where it says that how much energy srm2 will eat??

Cause if you need to read through this wall of text
https://mwomercs.com...ic-test-session

You can read through this organized table...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

it will be added to the hud before release, somwere in that wall of text it says that the curent ui is not yet adjusted couse values are yet subject to change coss PTS...

[davoodoo]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 11:46 PM, said:

it will be added to the hud before release, somwere in that wall of text it says that the curent ui is not yet adjusted couse values are yet subject to change coss PTS...

Everything is subject to change.
If it comes out with full info in a year from now then you will get that info then.
I go into game however and see jack ****...

Then again you assume theyll add that info, but they never given info about how much extra heat you get from ghost heat which makes its safe to assume best info youll ever get is energy consumption on weapon

Edited by davoodoo, 22 August 2016 - 12:13 AM.

[Dolph Hoskins]

I am not too worried either way, but I honestly do not see how anyone could say ED is easier to understand than GH.

With GH you can fire X amount of same weapon simultaneously before incurring a heat spike. If you fire more than X simultaneously you get more heat. Makes sense even if loosely based on the concept of excess exponential heat vs dissipation of the mech cooling system. That is a stretch though.

With ED it is a bunch of nonsensical contrived numbers based off of...nothing really and doesn't seem to really address any one issue....

Just all seems pointless to me. If you are going to change the system perhaps they should try and model it based off of standard physical concepts. Thermal dynamics....the math isn't much more complicated than the mystical system PGI are trying to create.

Edited by The Ripper13, 22 August 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[Tiantara]

The Ripper13, on 22 August 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

I am not too worried either way, but I honestly do not see how anyone could say ED is easier to understand than GH.

With GH you can fire X amount of same weapon simultaneously before incurring a heat spike. If you fire more than X simultaneously you get more heat. Makes sense even if loosely based on the concept of excess exponential heat vs dissipation of the mech cooling system. That is a stretch though.

With ED it is a bunch of nonsensical contrived numbers based off of...nothing really and doesn't seem to really address any one issue....

Just all seems pointless to me. If you are going to change the system perhaps they should try and model it based off of standard mechanical concepts. Thermal dynamics....the math isn't much more complicated than the mystical system PGI are trying to create.

- ED is simple as banana.
If your alpha (not all firepower in mech you have, all players make a mistake when count overall firepower of mech as its possible alpha) fits in Energy Draw Pool - you got heat equal to weapon heat points.
If your alpha more than Energy Draw Pool - you got heat penalty.
To avoid it you can use at first shot 2\3 of your alpha or 1\2 and after 1-1.5 sec second part which is 1\3 or 1\2 of your alpha. Or your mech overall firepower can be exact Energy Draw pool and you got no penalty at all. Simple? Simple...
We can call it - safe heatsink status and all what go off that - exstreme heatsink status where you got overheat.
System works in many test.
And it IS test, not final product. System need some changes, tweaks and leveling of pool. For class or for IS\Clan mech, or for its tonnage. Better on class, to bring forgotten mech back to action and in same time make limit for overpowered mech.

Edited by Tiantara, 22 August 2016 - 07:03 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

and mind you, mechwarrior online is the first game in the series and even in the entirety of battletech franchise where alphas have become a problem...

I'm late to the party, but I just want to point out this is false. MW4 had the same problem, whether it was the LL spam you saw in the FFP servers or the Gauss/ERPPC poptarts in 3rd person.

[Andi Nagasia]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

No this isnt finished product, but you know what pgi will do before ti hits live?? theyll crank up penatlies up to 11...

and mind you, mechwarrior online is the first game in the series and even in the entirety of battletech franchise where alphas have become a problem...

not entirely true, TT Solaris had problems where people making Alpha Mechs, was becoming a Problem,
also MW3/MW3:PM had lots of problems with people just pushing high Alphas then hide,

[davoodoo]

Andi Nagasia, on 22 August 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

not entirely true, TT Solaris had problems where people making Alpha Mechs, was becoming a Problem,
also MW3/MW3:PM had lots of problems with people just pushing high Alphas then hide,

Which i found no info about.

And ok mw3 is old game and there might no info on internet but solaris is still played yet quick google search given 0 returns on anyone complaining about alphas, it returned few complaints about alphas in mwo though...

Edited by davoodoo, 22 August 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

GH or ED? Honestly I prefer neither. Neither one is a good system and both are band aids that merely mitigate the underlying problems. I'd rather see those problems addressed directly than waste time and energy trying to build a better band aid. But if you're forcing to pick one, I choose ghost heat.

The reasons are simple. First and foremost, balance and build variety in the live game under ghost heat are better right now than they've ever been. On the PTS under energy draw, balance and variety are nearly non-existent. And this is largely due to the next point.

Second, energy draw fails to do nearly everything the system was designed to do. Alphas are higher than ever, boating is even more effective. Following the various metas of the past is greatly encouraged while mixing your builds is greatly discouraged

Following on from that, GH has been fairly effective at being able to push away from boated and meta builds, and has proven to be adaptable to the next best build. Little about the mechanics of ED seems to be so readily adaptable, and the system seems incapable of making the distinction between builds that should be encouraged and those that shouldn't.

Moreover, I feel the added complexity of yet another system that must be managing intensively both in the mech lab and in a match is one more thing to negatively impact the difficult learning curve of MWO, and will only serve to alienate new players. Those who are claiming ED is an easier system to deal with than GH are deluded.

To be perfectly honest, if ED were to make it onto the live servers as is... or without such significant iteration as to make the current version unrecognizable... this would be the final nail in the coffin for my time with MWO. And it seems there are many more that would leave if ED were implemented as-is than those that would go if we merely retained GH.

[Tiantara]

ScarecrowES, on 22 August 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Second, energy draw fails to do nearly everything the system was designed to do. Alphas are higher than ever, boating is even more effective. Following the various metas of the past is greatly encouraged while mixing your builds is greatly discouraged

- Main idea of Energy Draw - limit possible alpha damage of let it be in cost of greater heat. PTS is a test. Test where all numbers is zero in calculation. After test result - heat can be greater, or Energy pool for each class differs. Maybe mix build become popular not because of GH fear but because you need weapon for long range as well as for protecting in brawling. That better way to force mix build than now.
Also in Live Server you cant see many of mech chassis. Some hero mech become junk, some lacks of firepower in front of other models by hardpoints or capacity. Some mech cant use XL because die from one hit. Some useless with STD - too slow to get away from punch of 70DMG.
On PTS many of forgotten mech become useful. Did you try them all?