148 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

What I like about you guys is that when its convenient for you the population is too low for MM, but then two hours and six threads later the population suddenly becomes sufficient.

First, I'm not "you guys". I'm one guy who has proposed a specific solution to the problem of poor quality matchmaking. What other guys said about the population 2 hours and 6 threads ago has no bearing on what I said.

Secondly, which version of reality are you subscribing to? If you're not straw manning, you must believe that there aren't enough players, so that the '2 players and 22 potatoes' scenario you asked about is a daily occurrence, and the matchmaking can't be fixed?

Is that it?

Unless, of course, you are just being argumentative for the sake of it.

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Delusional much? ... Scroll back a few pages in general discussion and look through MM-related threads. Better yet find MM-related threads from back when PGI announced it.

So, you're not happy with the matchmaking? But here you are in this thread try to blunt the logic of those of us calling out a problem with the matchmaking and proposing solutions to it.

Kind of confirms the suspicion that you're just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Edited by Appogee, 23 August 2016 - 03:55 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Appogee, on 23 August 2016 - 03:25 AM, said:

That's a straw man around an edge case.

Edge case? .An edge case is to see more than 4 good players and less than 20 potatoes in an average pug match.

[PyckenZot]

Mirage Jenius, on 22 August 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

This a pure rage post directed at the person who is responsible for the matchmaker if there is such a thing is this game. I'm tier 1, I've been playing for 3 years, maybe even more. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH TIER 3. I DON'T WANNA BE FRUSTRATED AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!

EITHER DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS THING OR HAVE NEGATIVE REVIEWS OVER YOUR GAME EVERYWHERE I CAN THINK OF. IF I DO LEAVE I'LL PULL 5 MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE AS FED UP AS ME WITH THIS ****. HOW CAN SOMEONE LOSE 10 MATCHES IN A ROW CAUSE OF FRIENDLY NOOB PLAYERS AND STILL FIND SATISFACTION IN PLAYING?!?!? GET A BRAIN AND SIT DOWN AND FIX THE GODDAMNED MATCHMAKER OR GIVE THE LICENSE TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO MAKE A FUN GAME INSTEAD OF FRUSTRATION GENERATOR MWO BECAME. PEACE.

I recommend playing ANY other team based shooter AND check ANY other team based shooter's forums,...
You'll have the same issues and see the same complaints.

Maybe single player games are more your thing?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Don't think we lowly t3's want to meet you either in quick play.

Thats mostly because people like you have no respect in game. You Ignore, never lead or try to teach us you just trash talk us.

It's rare when a top player comes in and helps us and when they do we win games or come close. I had a match with Nutsack yesterday, He took charge and led us on Viridian. We won and it was a tough vicious fight. Guys Like that I will follow and fight for. You trash talking know it all"s can pack sand though. Were sick of you too.

[Willard Phule]

Funniest part of this whole thing is that people actually expect PGI to be able to program a matchmaker.

The original Elo/MM thing was a band-aid. It was never meant to be permanent....then they changed it to this PSR thing. Works just as well as the MM in FP...which is to say, it doesn't.

Face facts....the game doesn't have the population to separate people properly. That's because PGI can't retain players with a constantly jacked game. Is what it is. Add to that the complete inability to listen to their playerbase and you end up with MW:O.

[Ninjah]

Lemming of the BDA, on 23 August 2016 - 03:31 AM, said:

To the OP.

Go.
Away.
D-bag.

Signed,
Everyone.

Nah I'll stay and annoy the crap out of you guys that are not intelligent enough to even recognize the issue with the game let alone propose a solution that makes even a tiny bit of sense. Go lick more behinds at PGI cause you're on the same page.

PyckenZot, on 23 August 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

I recommend playing ANY other team based shooter AND check ANY other team based shooter's forums,...
You'll have the same issues and see the same complaints.

Maybe single player games are more your thing?

I played more than 500 games in the last 15 years, argument invalid.

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 August 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

Don't think we lowly t3's want to meet you either in quick play.

Thats mostly because people like you have no respect in game. You Ignore, never lead or try to teach us you just trash talk us.

It's rare when a top player comes in and helps us and when they do we win games or come close. I had a match with Nutsack yesterday, He took charge and led us on Viridian. We won and it was a tough vicious fight. Guys Like that I will follow and fight for. You trash talking know it all"s can pack sand though. Were sick of you too.

I do try my best in every game and I'm sick of you offended crybabies waiting for salvation from us, game after game.

Edited by Mirage Jenius, 23 August 2016 - 04:23 AM.

[PyckenZot]

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:21 AM, said:

I played more than 500 games in the last 15 years, gtfo.

You've only been playing for 15 years? Get back in line you noob and let the grown-ups talk

[Ninjah]

Right, lol.

[adamts01]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

What it should be then if there are 2 skilled players and 22 potatoes searching for a match? No match at all?

I'd happily wait longer if it meant tighter match tolerances. But that also means we'd have to have a tier system that meant something. But I also realize a lot of people don't care and just want quick matches. A slider scale has been suggested, that would be cool, so you could set your own preference. In the end though, it's the developers fault for not building a better game, and having more players.

[Jehofi]

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:21 AM, said:

Nah I'll stay and annoy the crap out of you guys that are not intelligent enough to even recognize the issue with the game let alone propose a solution that makes even a tiny bit of sense. Go lick more behinds at PGI cause you're on the same page.

Says the whiner who is clearly not understanding what MM should do.

Mirage Jenius, on 22 August 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

No. How do you explain people having 20 losses in a row?

Probability is 1/1048576 unless well ofc you can gimp yourself.

Oh and where ist the post that this actually happend?

Mirage Jenius, on 22 August 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

EDIT: To clarify the problem: on one side you get 9 tier 3 players and 3 tier 1 players. Other side has 6-7 tier 2 and maybe one tier 1 and the rest tier 3. The team with 6-7 tier 2 players will stomp the other 99% of the time. Why? That tier 3 bunch is still fresh, they don't have a month under their belt and DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT TO DO. So PGI, please do something ffs.

Do you have any proof that this happens, because honestly i dont know where you would get that info from.

[PhoenixFire55]

Appogee, on 23 August 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

Secondly, which version of reality are you subscribing to? If you're not straw manning, you must believe that there aren't enough players, so that the '2 players and 22 potatoes' scenario you asked about is a daily occurrence, and the matchmaking can't be fixed?

I'm not subscribing to anything because I'm looking at facts and analizing facts instead of coming up with fantasies and delusions. Try playing Oceanic server for a change during AUS night hours, there are like 40 people playing on the entire server. Same goes with lesser extent for EU during lazy hours.

No matter how brilliant and amazing your MM is you won't have a balanced match if such a small pool can't be balanced. The question is, can it be balanced and the answer to that question isn't nearly as simple. Two perfectly balanced teams can end up winning/losing by a landslide depending on decisions made during a match.

You can't look at only the final score to judge if teams partaking in a match were balanced or not and you don't have sufficient knowledge about players you briefly see for one game to judge their skill and determine if teams were balanced either. For every instance when you can actually tell that teams were imbalanced there are a dozen more instances when you think you can tell it, while in reality you can't. No living person can do that, it can only be done with databases and complicated algorithms that MM is supposed to have. But as it is PGI responsible for building such MM you can forget your wet dreams that it'll ever work.

Now if you would have actually bothered to read what others posted on the forum you'd known that I've made several easy-to-implement suggestions on how to improve the Elo-MM we had before, and several ways to indroduce an actual "proper" MM ages ago. The thing is NOBODY cares. Welcome to the Island^TM.

PGI isn't giving you MM to produce even matches, it gives you MM to bring your W/L to 1.0 by creating landslides one way and then another way and thus maintaining an illusion of an actually working MM. If you don't believe me that they don't care about MM and balancing then look no further than current tiers system that is nothing more than an exp-bar for average and above players - they clearly stated so themselves. They want people to play so that they can farm their precious T1, the more idiots are able to farm T1 the better. Tier 1 potato for all.

And finally FYI ... I honestly think that this game needs no MM at all. Randomly drawing 24 people and placing them into two teams produces (according to LLN) a fairly even distribution of skill among these two teams, that is more than sufficient for solo queue and probably leads to better results than PGI's borked MM as well. Group queue and especially CW ... this is a team oriented game, if you and your team s*ck compared to the other team its your own damn fault. Man up ffs crybabies.

TL:DR ... MM is sh!t, always was sh!t and always will be sh!t because PGI.

[H I A S]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Sure, but tell it to the guy ^^ who laucnhes into solo queue and says he doesn't have to carry.

im soloing for fun and cbills as well

[Ninjah]

Oh I do understand, seems you don't. It should provide even games where both teams battle it out in a close game. In the last few months all I've seen is stomps with few good close games in between. Did you calculate the probability yourself? I asked around and got confirmations that this is happening a lot. My MWO friend list has like 500 people so I can do it. Also would you like to see a post with 25 screenshots? I can do it if needed. Lastly I've been around for so long that I recognize a lot of players and I also take notes of people who appear for the first time meaning they just came out from T4. Moreover playstyle patterns and loadouts are quite recognizable.

[PhoenixFire55]

adamts01, on 23 August 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

I'd happily wait longer if it meant tighter match tolerances. But that also means we'd have to have a tier system that meant something. But I also realize a lot of people don't care and just want quick matches. A slider scale has been suggested, that would be cool, so you could set your own preference. In the end though, it's the developers fault for not building a better game, and having more players.

Up to you man. I'm waiting 7-10 minutes on average for a solo match outside of event time. Its far longer than it needs to be as is, anything longer ... I've got better things to do.

Everything else ... I agree.

[Ninjah]

this is a team oriented game, if you and your team s*ck compared to the other team its your own damn fault. Man up ffs crybabies.

So you are confirming that PGI has the most annoying "matchmaker" that promotes stomps and doesn't know when to stop or turn around thus creating extremely unbalanced gameplay that annoyes the crap out of people, making them stop playing the game completely? And on top of that you're saying we should bow and suck it? We shouldn't say a freaking word to PGI, we shouldn't try to make the game better for everyone? Such a wonderful character you are.

[PyckenZot]

No. Actually MWO has one of the better matchmakers. I see way less potatoes here than I do in WoWS, WoT, Armored Warfare and the likes,...

Hell, people even react positively to taking the lead in this game. Go figure!?

Edited by PyckenZot, 23 August 2016 - 04:53 AM.

[Ghogiel]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 August 2016 - 04:35 AM, said:

PGI isn't giving you MM to produce even matches, it gives you MM to bring your W/L to 1.0 by creating landslides one way and then another way and thus maintaining an illusion of an actually working MM.

People keep saying that... which is weird because if the MM was pushing for even matches for every player, that mean everyones W/L would actually be ~1:1.

It's not true it does that because it doesn't care about individual players. The skill disparity within the only variable that is supposed to be skill based that is used to create a match is quite high. It is in fact trying to create even matches, but it doesn't know anything about an indiviuals score, only treats them as a T1 players. by making even weightclasses and same number of players from the same tiers on each team that's the most of an attempt it makes to have even matches

There is no mechanism to reduce an individuals players W/L to 1 once they are at max T1.

Edited by Ghogiel, 23 August 2016 - 04:55 AM.

[PJohann]

I don't know anything about matchmaking, but my winrate dropped from 1.21 to 1.06 during this leaderboard event, while k/d ratio raised from 1.28 to 1.36 and im closing to top 75 (82 yesterday evening, dropped to 105 overnight) heavy pilots. Something really off and I refuse to beleive that is somehow my fault and i need to "git gud" and "carry harder"

[Jehofi]

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

Oh I do understand, seems you don't. It should provide even games where both teams battle it out in a close game.

That is a wish but it is mechanically impossible (as a T1 player you should understand why).

The true goal is a 50% win chance, which is something that can be mathematically defined and thus reached.

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

In the last few months all I've seen is stomps with few good close games in between.

And thus you think that MM is broken because stomps happen... well i did tell you you dont understand what MM should do.

Stomps do not come from MM but stomps the inbuilt snowballing mechanic in each game. Every idiot can distribute a pool of 11x 3 9xT2 5xT1 players into 2 roughly equal groups. Problem here is: T1 != T1 or T3 = T1. That is the MM problem not having different skill levels in the team (because of less players)

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

Did you calculate the probability yourself?

Sure it is quite easy.

Mirage Jenius, on 23 August 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

I asked around and got confirmations that this is happening a lot. My MWO friend list has like 500 people so I can do it. Also would you like to see a post with 25 screenshots? I can do it if needed. Lastly I've been around for so long that I recognize a lot of players and I also take notes of people who appear for the first time meaning they just came out from T4. Moreover playstyle patterns and loadouts are quite recognizable.

ROFL, anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias.

I accept a logical explanation why anyone would sort players in a way you claim they are sorted?

[Jehofi]

PJohann, on 23 August 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

I don't know anything about matchmaking, but my winrate dropped from 1.21 to 1.06 during this leaderboard event, while k/d ratio raised from 1.28 to 1.36 and im closing to top 75 (82 yesterday evening, dropped to 105 overnight) heavy pilots. Something really off and I refuse to beleive that is somehow my fault and i need to "git gud" and "carry harder"

So you and a lot of people changed their playstyle and the feeling of the game changed? I wonder why....

TBH one explanation is that you played less the teamgame (drop in W/L) and more the "get-kills" game (thus the raise in k/d). Or did you not participate in the Leaderboard event?