92 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 23 August 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

The Kodiak 3 could not have any quirks and still be the top assault, just like the top medium currently has no quirks. Ironically both rely on high mounts pretty heavily.

That's because dirt and rock makes for better armor than armor.

[PAQUERA]

about kodiak is always the same: whines and cry, whines and cry...

Improvise, adapt, overcome!

ah, forgot it, u really think that a medium, or light event score can compete with a assault event score?

Edited by PAQUERA, 25 August 2016 - 11:01 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Scout Derek, on 25 August 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

I stopped taking this seriously when people started shouting white knights protecting the KDK-3, instead of just counter arguments.


Kinda sad really.

Thats ok, pgi never took it seriously

[Wecx]

I don't see why the KDK has quirks at all.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 25 August 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

That's because dirt and rock makes for better armor than armor.

You forgot those damn trees.

[Slow and Decrepit]

I remember all the screaming about the Highlander and the Victor, and how that led to them becoming bottom tier mechs. Why can't people wait few more weeks for energy draw to fix the mech?I really doubt those that are complaining have tried the PTS to see how the ballistic weapons have had a adjustment and run hotter now if your firing a decent rate. People can't fire the UAC5+UAC10'S like you can now.

Edited by beleneagle, 25 August 2016 - 07:54 PM.

[lazytopaz]

You know what would be a reasonable and proper approach?

1) Buffing UP all of the underdogs (victors, zeus, etc - which would require a lot of work)
2) Evaluate the changes with another leaderboard assault thingy challange
3) If KDK's are still on top with huge gap between them and any other mech/contestants, buff underdogs some more (this may include reworking of some chassis harpoint placement wise)
4) Then think deeply how to adjust KDK's while trying with to your best ability to not be an ******* lazy dev who just puts and blanket nerf on UAC10 (which is used by many more mechs apart from KDK3 etc)

P.S. I do own KDK's.

But we all know its waay easier (and dumber/less effective in a long run) to just blanket nerf UAC10 and KDK's. Rather than fixing underperforming Assaults.

[Crushko]

I watched some videos where people dished out 1500-1500 DMG with a Kodiak 3 double Uac10/5 build. What should I say the opponents often have zero situational awareness and the teammates are somewhat reluctant to make use of that. So the Kodiak can hit one dude hard without too much resistance, then the next one and rinse and repeat.

However this doesnt mean that the Kodiak 3 is imba. It isnt it. You just need to hit him. A proper specced Dire Wolf/Mauler/King Crab/Atlas etc can beat a Kodiak in a staredown, other mechs have to flank or team up.

If anything these scores show that there are issues with the matchmaker. A dedicated, experienced pilot should more than often face equal opponents and not rather inexperienced people that run around without a clue whats going on.

[LordNothing]

dont worry the kodiak problem will go away about 3 minutes after it comes out for cbills.

[SteelBruiser]

I say leave it alone, and no I don't own any yet. But also I haven't found them unbeatable. I've managed to kill them many times. Now if I'm stupid and try to stand toe-to- toe with one with an obviously out gunned mech, then I die a miserable death due to my stupidity. But that happens with any mech. If you don't stay situationally aware and a light fills yer backside with SRMs, is it the mech's fault or yours? And just because someone uses the high mount capabilities of their mech while you still prefer an antique knuckle dragger doesn't make their mech OP. One more thing, I really don't run into that many of the Kodiaks any more. In fact, I've been seeing more of the older mechs on the field and in many cases they're still pretty formidable. Keeps the game interesting.

[Yosharian]

Freebrewer Bmore, on 23 August 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

By now I know PGI has amassed enough data for this balance problem to be obvious, yet I see nothing in the new patch fixing it.

Even WE have data, like here:
http://mwomercs.com/...s?t=201605mechs
1st-place finishers: KDK5 - 3,409; KDK4 - 3,619; KDK2 - 3,906; KDK1 - 4,014; KDKSB - 4,440; KDK3 - 5,172
50th-place finishers: KDK5 - 2,044; KDK4 - 2,261; KDK1 - 2,419; KDK2 - 2,424; KDKSB - 2,777; KDK3 - 3,775

...and here: http://mwomercs.com/...t=201608assault
1st's: Victor - 3,080; Zeus - 3,392; Highlander - 3,477; Atlas - 3,674; Gargoyle - 3,733; Highlander IIC - 3,738; Mauler - 3,809; Awesome - 3,913; Executioner - 3,993; Banshee - 4,071; Stalker - 4,080; King Crab - 4,127; Warhawk - 4,162; Dire Wolf - 4,227; Battlemaster - 4,688; Kodiak - 5,488

75th's: Victor - 1,898; Highlander - 1,975; Zeus - 2,081; Gargoyle - 2,102; Executioner - 2,227; Banshee - 2,374; Highlander IIC - 2,391; Stalker - 2,412; Atlas - 2,444; Warhawk - 2,499; King Crab - 2,609; Awesome - 2,636; Battlemaster - 2,660; Mauler - 2,749; Dire Wolf - 2,818; Kodiak - 3,226

Obviously there are some shortcomings of this data into which PGI should have better insight (e.g. we're not sure just how many matches were run with each variant/chassis, and it'd be nice to see numbers from average-ish competitors in addition to the winning outliers), but it's pretty clear that a certain mech is head and shoulders above the rest.

...and in fact, the head and shoulders are all that said mech needs to expose in order to obliterate you in a couple salvos, at any range. It's simultaneously a beastly sniper, a beastly brawler, and a beastly blinding suppressive firer, plus it has enough mobility to frequently choose to engage at whatever range is bad for you and also avoid getting stabbed in the back, and enough armor to outlast multiple attackers if it does get caught alone.

But don't just let subjective nerf whining by myself or others sway you, PGI. Look at the objective freakin' data and freakin' fix the freakin' KDK3. PLEASE! Personally I'd recommend ghost-heating the absolute hell out of CUAC10's when more than 2 are fired AND linking that to CUAC5's (tho you could give the 5's a higher threshold when fired on their own, such that firing 4x5 would incur no ghost heat, but 3x10 or 2x10+1x5 would screw you; might also need to do something later about other configs, but decisively diluting 10's should go a long way toward making KDK3's a less ridiculously infuriating battlefield presence without needing a straight-up quirk nerf).

BTW Disclaimer: I own Kodiaks myself, but refuse to play the KDK3 until it's brought under control. It's a pity, because I really do enjoy dakka mechs. Easymode ain't my thing tho.

PGI only uses 'data' when it suits their purposes.

[jaxjace]

process, on 23 August 2016 - 11:01 AM, said:

The UAC10 loophole was closed, and the KDK-3 doesn't really have major quirks. What nerfs is it supposed to receive that don't affect the whole system?

could give it some minor accel decel nerf quirks, or torso twist quirks, some variants of the timber still do and its doing just fine last i checked.

[Revis Volek]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 August 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

You forgot those damn trees.

Which PGI has claimed multiple times that they wont block shots....

I dont think they even got in a mech and tried, not even once.

Yosharian, on 26 August 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

PGI only uses 'data' when it suits their purposes.

I thinks its more of a fail on the interpretation part. You can have all the data in the world but if you dont know what you are looking for in the data or just flat out dont understand the data at all (in this case) then what good is it anyway?



Also, whoever said it up top, KDK isnt out for Cbill yet so dotn expect any nerfs. I'm sure once they are free PGI will nerf them to the dirt like other clan mechs so they can sell new shiny.

Edited by Revis Volek, 26 August 2016 - 11:51 AM.