96 replies to this topic

[Davers]

patataman, on 23 August 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

I liked R&R. Using expensive equipment and doing poorly had a tax. That's correct, and imho using state of the art tech and doing poorly should be bad for your wallet.

On the other hand, using cheap equipment and doing poorly was a lot cheaper, and promoted the use of lights and mediums with STD engines and without endo and ferro upgrades. That way you could earn money even in mediocre matches.

Imagine cheap mediums being the work horses of the inner sphere... that smells like lore...

Funny, smells like slow, overheating pieces of crap to me. And how do Novas and Stormcrows fit into this R&R of yours, since these 'cheap mediums' are expected to contribute equally in a 12v12 environment?

Ditching R&R was the smartest thing PGI has done with this game.

[Xmith]

You have to remember that this is only a game. The average player is not interested in the realism of immersion. All they want is a game to play that does not reflect or feels too much like real life.

I was a new player and never felt that I was being punished for having to repair my mech. I would play, earn a bunch of c-bills, repair my mech and buy some ammo when needed. It was a simple as that. There was never a time when I did not earn enough to do this.

PGI could try it again. PGI could increase c-bill earnings to cover r&r. They would also have to have safeguards in place to make sure players drop into matches at least 90% repaired.

Remember, MWO is only a game and no one wants to work too hard to have fun.

[Dirus Nigh]

The responses on the first page pretty much sum up all the reasons why R&R should not be in the game.

The only exception I see to R&R in the game is if it was part of FW in a limited capacity. Such as armor (only armor) repair and reloading stations there were apart of bases in invasion matches. Both the main static base and a forward field base for the attackers. Or a mobile truck that is a commander asset that can be moved up. All of which would have a limited number of repairs/reloads, and can be destroyed or captured.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 23 August 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[dervishx5]

Only reason R&R should be in this game is if this game was a single player PvE game.

[Pjwned]

patataman, on 23 August 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

I liked R&R. Using expensive equipment and doing poorly had a tax. That's correct, and imho using state of the art tech and doing poorly should be bad for your wallet. On the other hand, using cheap equipment and doing poorly was a lot cheaper, and promoted the use of lights and mediums with STD engines and without endo and ferro upgrades. That way you could earn money even in mediocre matches. Imagine cheap mediums being the work horses of the inner sphere... that smells like lore...

Archangel Dino, on 23 August 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

That's exactly what my thought process was. If you're using Endo-Steel, XL Engines, and FF Armor, then OFCOURSE it's going to hurt your wallet - and it should - because you're paying for serious gear. The way the game is now, IS Mech builds almost always have Endo-Steel on. I think R&R could work but it would have to be done with a new system in mind.

How would you deal with poor, inexperienced players using crappy mechs getting demolished by rich veterans using godly mechs? I'm not expecting a good answer but maybe either of you can humor me.

Unless of course the goal is to allow exactly that to happen, in which case you would be saying goodbye to the vast majority of the player population.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Why Was Repair & Rearm Removed?

[color=#EEEEEE] [/color]

Because at this point it further separates the haves from the have nots.

You could add it back today and it would have little to no impact on my gameplay experience.

But for new players it will increase the grind dramatically and for those that are struggling to secure wins, or play lights alot (and therefore trend to lower damage numbers) will suffer immediately, further driving people to play heavies and assaults which are already the top-played chassis.

[Tarl Cabot]

Imagine if Clans were in game when R&R was live.....!!! I can just hear the anguish!!!

[Pjwned]

Dirus Nigh, on 23 August 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

The responses on the first page pretty much sum up all the reasons why R&R should not be in the game.

The only exception I see to R&R in the game is if it was part of FW in a limited capacity. Such as armor (only armor) repair and reloading stations there were apart of bases in invasion matches. Both the main static base and a forward field base for the attackers. Or a mobile truck that is a commander asset that can be moved up. All of which would have a limited number of repairs/reloads, and can be destroyed or captured.

That's actually something that I've wanted to see myself to expand the invasion mode because it's such a boring **** otherwise, and adding some other objectives too would be cool. I just don't want to see repair & rearm occurring in the mech lab at a cost to players because that would be bad.

I would just note that adding such objectives in FW should probably not be referred to as "repair & rearm," considering the context of the term.

[Idealsuspect]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

R&R literally has to be designed as a reward system... not as a punishment system. Otherwise, we're just going to repeat past problems with the previous base design.

Supply cache system is the best PGI was able to do as reward system

[Novakaine]

Poor PGI, if they wanted a good system they should simply made that mech down for a certain amount of play time.
For repairs, faster repairs could be purchased with XP or GXP.
Makes no sense to try to monetize this, but it would add more realism to the game.
Thus I couldn't take my favorite Orion match after match, thus adding more mech variety to the game.
Sigh.

The Further Adventures of Pew Pew Perkins.

"Perkins!'
"Yes sir what can I do for you sir?"
"Well at the risk of and needing mechs for this assault I hate to say it but I need you."
"Will I be off of mech wash duty?"
"That remains to be seen mechwarrior."
"Well in that case I'm your man Col."
"Sigh."
"Well here goes, I need to fill slots for the assault battalion how's that Stalker of yours?"
"Er Big Sally had her launchers blow off and down to two medium lasers."
"In the shop then?"
"Yup, but she'll be right as rain a week or two."
"Okay then hows about the Jager?"
"Arm-less for now sir."
"Damn tell your Centurion is good?"
"Ah kinda sir if you like zombies sir."
"Oh gawd Perkins you make my rear exhaust port ache you know that?"
"Ah sorry sir, but my Locust is ready rock and roll!"
"You're talking about the Locust with the limp right?"
"Aaaargh Perkins why do I even keep you around tell me that."
"Because you're my beloved uncle?"
"Damn, well since I can't murder you myself get that bug ready and report to Dropship Ocho."
"Thank you Uncle sir I won't let you down again!"
"Do your family a small favor and just die will ya."
"Yes Sir I will.........wait whut!"

Edited by Novakaine, 23 August 2016 - 08:00 PM.

[patataman]

Davers, on 23 August 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

Funny, smells like slow, overheating pieces of crap to me. And how do Novas and Stormcrows fit into this R&R of yours, since these 'cheap mediums' are expected to contribute equally in a 12v12 environment?

Ditching R&R was the smartest thing PGI has done with this game.

Back then the clans were not part of the game, CW was going to be released in 90 days, we could do DFAs and there were 4 maps. Obviously many things changed during the last 4 years.

How to balance novas and crows? The same way? Last time i saw one they came with DHS. Clan XL engines are better than STD, and i guess more expensive. Weapons, ammo and other clan equipment still have a c-bill value, right?

Of course cheap mechs have worst performance, that's why they are cheap to buy and were cheaper to repair back in CB. The mechs still shows that, with the different classes having an increasing c-bill value from lights to assaults, and all of them having different prices depending on the stock equipment (dhs, xl engines, etc).

[Johnny Z]

Repair and Rearm could add a lot to the game.

Some players have mentioned down time until a mech is repaired. I like it. A lot.

What about new players? Well they can log off until repairs are done or something else, or buy more mechs. I don't know but its a good idea and if it helps sell a few more mechs than awesome.

If it deters not participating in matches even better.

Have repairs be able to speed up with c bills and mc and have engineering crew that can be lvled up. This is common sense how to do it and it would be awesome.

Details? Way over me head.

The ideas I mentioned above are from other players mostly by the way. Great ideas.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 August 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[N0MAD]

Pjwned, on 23 August 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

How would you deal with poor, inexperienced players using crappy mechs getting demolished by rich veterans using godly mechs? I'm not expecting a good answer but maybe either of you can humor me.

Thats an easy one,, how about providing a decent match maker and some progression ??, why on earth provide matches where poor inexperienced newbs are thrown in with alpha sharks?.
In a certain ships game i play i never got thrown in with fully mastered end game vehicles in my lower ranks and they have repair rearm, i never struggled getting the coin to get into my next ship + mods at lower levels even tho there is repair rearm costs,, cause they are scaled and im playing vs hardware that is close to mine..
Sure as soon as i got to the lvl 8 hardware its much more difficult making coin as repair rearm is quite expensive but its the same for all and at lvl 8+ you are expected to play better wiser, but i see this as a challenge for the vets..
Repair rearm is a decent mechanic that makes you wary of playing badly or unwisely for a vet, in MWO it was just implemented badly because everything is implemented badly..

[Johnny Z]

Some players have said make it faction warfare only? Bad idea. Make it a foundation of the game. Add some sim to this game for crying out loud.

Theres games where players lose everything if they die once and the trolls go off the leash at the mention of repair and rearm in this game because they hate this game. Really. Maybe they hate all games? I don't know but any player would like more sim in this game.

Just think sitting in a mech waiting for Solaris to start thinking that if a player doesn't do well there is something on the line. Totally awesome dudes. The trolls know that to.

What about a merc company fighting in faction play and there is actually something on the line. This after all the cheats have been perma banned of course, but just imagine how cool that would be.

Or loyalists in faction play and there is something on the line...

What about a solo Freelancer and he is thinking how he has to make enough to repair his mech and maybe save up to buy a new one.

Edited by Johnny Z, 23 August 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[Pjwned]

N0MAD, on 23 August 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

Thats an easy one,, how about providing a decent match maker and some progression ??, why on earth provide matches where poor inexperienced newbs are thrown in with alpha sharks?.
In a certain ships game i play i never got thrown in with fully mastered end game vehicles in my lower ranks and they have repair rearm, i never struggled getting the coin to get into my next ship + mods at lower levels even tho there is repair rearm costs,, cause they are scaled and im playing vs hardware that is close to mine..
Sure as soon as i got to the lvl 8 hardware its much more difficult making coin as repair rearm is quite expensive but its the same for all and at lvl 8+ you are expected to play better wiser, but i see this as a challenge for the vets..
Repair rearm is a decent mechanic that makes you wary of playing badly or unwisely for a vet, in MWO it was just implemented badly because everything is implemented badly..

Or...we could just not go through the hassle of doing that, and not split up the playerbase more than it already is, only to add in a crappy artificial grind a la World of Tanks.

[FupDup]

Novakaine, on 23 August 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Poor PGI, if the wanted a good system they should simply made that mech down for a certain amount of play time.
For repairs, faster repairs could be purchased with XP or GXP.

So basically, I have to wait at least several minutes between matches if I want to keep playing one mech?

Lolno.

[Dino Banino]

Pjwned, on 23 August 2016 - 06:56 PM, said:

Or...we could just not go through the hassle of doing that, and not split up the playerbase more than it already is, only to add in a crappy artificial grind a la World of Tanks.

So, your logic is that R&R coming back would scare away new players. But, having a Matchmaking system that ruthlessly pits new players - who don't even know what an AC10 is - against experienced players with insane builds would not scare them away?

Edit: Just to clarify: when I first played this game when R&R was used, I didn't even know what Battletech or Mechwarrior was. This is my first Mechwarrior game ever. But I loved that the game was F2P and it looked promising. R&R sure didn't scare me away - I kept playing. And now, here I am doubting the direction this game is going now.

Edited by Archangel Dino, 23 August 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[Kyrie]

Making R&R work would have made necessary having a real economy, as was mentioned previously; it would have required extensive re-balancing of weapons to account for ammo costs. Its the kind of cool thing that could have worked with an in-depth implementation of CW that was never to be. See thread in signature.

[Pjwned]

Archangel Dino, on 23 August 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

So, your logic is that R&R coming back would scare away new players. But, having a Matchmaking system that ruthlessly pits new players - who don't even know what an AC10 is - against experienced players with insane builds would not scare them away?

That's already covered well enough with PSR.

[Dino Banino]

Kyrie, on 23 August 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Making R&R work would have made necessary having a real economy, as was mentioned previously; it would have required extensive re-balancing of weapons to account for ammo costs. Its the kind of cool thing that could have worked with an in-depth implementation of CW that was never to be. See thread in signature.

I didn't read the entire thread, but truly interesting. I love how invested you were into that thread. If MWO is going to go forward, it's going to be people like you that bring it forward.