303 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Is anyone playing right now?

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

So not only do Clanners get screwed with having multiple shot AC's that have increased ghost heat but now were going to have added power draw for it too? Okay fine. If A IS mech reaches its power draw limit does it blow up because their Techs are the equivalent to a Chimpanzee with a plastic club beating on a transmission case to fix the transmission? And how does it work that a weapon that Originally fires multiple rounds has degraded to a weapon that fires a single round but does the same damage? A Clan Centurion with the Luxor AC10 is no different that the Inner Sphere version with one real important exception, The Clans havent lost the Technical Know-how that keeps the weapon working PROPERLY. Higher efficiency energy weapons means less power draw for the same results. What we have here is the complete opposite. And no I dont need to goto the PTS to test it, I can read the changes made.

[X T R E M E]

This is very serious, pay attention here please!

Is getting worse and worse.

http://mwomercs.com/...5293-dropdecks/

Edited by XtremeAlex, 23 August 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[SQW]

Bring back ammo explosion! We need more penalties for going into the yellow/red heat zone and not just in override!

Make it so the dakka bear and dakka whale will sweat bullets at the sight of a Firestarter.

[Vincent Quatermain]

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Which is why a "convergence on lock" system is closest to what we used to have

Which PGI got rid of because it made hit registration an absolute nightmare.

Gas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Is anyone playing right now?

Yeah, I'm in a Forum Play drop right now. It's MWO's secret third game type.

[Mystere]

Vincent Quatermain, on 23 August 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Which PGI got rid of because it made hit registration an absolute nightmare.

And?

[Nightbird]

Please try these suggested values:

Energy draw = weapon heat, except for:
Gauss draws a constant 5 energy per second, but uses no extra energy when firing
recharge rate = 10/sec
energy max pool = 25 energy
Mechs can have quirks for more recharge rate or more energy pool

done

[Vincent Quatermain]

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

And?

Why would you want to implement a solution that will make hit registration really buggy?

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

That the whole thing in a nutshell.
They dont want a game thats fun, they want Professional Paintball in Mechs.

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

Fun? Who needs fun? MWO is serius eSport bizness. The balance Gods must be obeyed unquestionably.

[Mystere]

Vincent Quatermain, on 23 August 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

Why would you want to implement a solution that will make hit registration really buggy?

Do you even know how a "convergence on lock" system works from a development point of view?

Hint: It's not the same as the automatic delayed convergence we used to have.

I leave the rest for you to figure out.

[Vincent Quatermain]

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

Do you even know how a "convergence on lock" system works from a development point of view?

Hint: It's not the same as the automatic delayed convergence we used to have.

I leave the rest for you to figure out.

Oh, I can figure it out. You have two simple systems, the current pinpoint mechanic and a zero convergence mechanic which is dumb as hell but easy to calculate, and you are switching between them based on target lock.

This seems good, until you realize what happens if I switch my fire to a second mech that I don't have locked, while keeping the first mech locked. If, say, the locked mech is at 200m, and the unlocked is at 400m, my convergence will be set to 200m, meaning that my weapons will cross paths between me and the second mech! Congratulations, you've made a version of Ghost Aim that is actually worse than zero convergence.

Also, this is not without netcode issues. If client side I think I locked a mech moments before firing, but the reverse is true server side -- my shots will go wide and I will have no idea why they went wide.
Not to mention that such a system would make ECM crazy powerful!

Edited by Vincent Quatermain, 23 August 2016 - 07:08 PM.

[Agent Cooper]

Hey PGI, do you want to make up some more imaginary ******** that has nothing to do with Mechwarrior or Battletech? Just wondering if you intend to ever follow the lore?

[Navid A1]

Wintersdark, on 23 August 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

Frattak, on 23 August 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

This energy draw system is going to kill the game,i'd like to know what the **** you guys use in canada to get so high on ******** because PGI's conduct with this game is a blistering pile of **** as tall as andre the giant,starting with the tournament[oh yeah,some salty comment from a JGx so you can enjoy more and go back to your roleplaying tier 968].
If someone is going to approve this should unistall the life from his chest.
If PGI is going to do this,the game will be dead.

^^ Feedback that doesn't get listened to.

His reaction is understandable... because this is the whole story:

[cougurt]

i've never been too happy with ghost heat, but i'll absolutely take it over an even more convoluted system that will require everything to be re-balanced. the game is no longer in beta, you shouldn't be making massive changes at this point.

[Mister Blastman]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Is anyone playing right now?

I'm trying to, on first day of patch, and can't get a game. Why do I even bother? I work two jobs and when I have a wee bit of spare time, I don't want to piss it down the drain staring at a waiting for match screen.

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 23 August 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm trying to, on first day of patch, and can't get a game. Why do I even bother? I work two jobs and when I have a wee bit of spare time, I don't want to piss it down the drain staring at a waiting for match screen.

It's the circle of life.

[Mystere]

Vincent Quatermain, on 23 August 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Oh, I can figure it out. You have two simple systems, the current pinpoint mechanic and a zero convergence mechanic which is dumb as hell but easy to calculate, and you are switching between them based on target lock.

This seems good, until you realize what happens if I switch my fire to a second mech that I don't have locked, while keeping the first mech locked. If, say, the locked mech is at 200m, and the unlocked is at 400m, my convergence will be set to 200m, meaning that my weapons will cross paths between me and the second mech! Congratulations, you've made a version of Ghost Aim that is actually worse than zero convergence.

Also, this is not without netcode issues. If client side I think I locked a mech moments before firing, but the reverse is true server side -- my shots will go wide and I will have no idea why they went wide.
Not to mention that such a system would make ECM crazy powerful!

What makes you think similar situations are not happening now when an object steps into your line of fire (fully or otherwise), or your target steps out of it, as or shortly after you've pulled the trigger?

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2016 - 08:29 PM.

[Sereglach]

Overall I'm not upset about the changes made. Personally I think it is movement in the right direction. Impressions as I get ready to test:

- I was one of many saying that the penalties needed to be harsher with 1.0 heat per 1.0 overdraw. Check.

- LBX seemed too harsh on PTS round 1 . . . apparently it was never set to the appropriate value. Needs testing now, but that'll probably make it feel about right. I still wish damage per pellet was getting increased, as well, but the fact you can now do things like fire 2 LBX-20's without overdraw might make them appealing enough. Sadly that does nothing for the other LBX weapons.

- PPFLD weapons (namely Gauss) got harsher penalties, as desired. Check.

- I still really wish the convoluted mechanics of the Flamer would get scrapped and the weapon brought into energy draw. 1.0 DPS, 2.0 Heat DPS, 1.0 HPS, and 2.0 EDPS. You can inflict 15 points of heat damage (far less than you can now) before Energy Draw penalties kick in, presuming you're firing nothing else. The damage is modest but not OP, and it'd function right in line with all other weapons. There's also no exploitable issues that caused the Flamergeddon and the convoluted mess we have now. Please sincerely consider doing this. At least try it . . . we are, after all, doing a PTS series and it would bring the weapon into the Energy Draw system fluidly. The Heat DPS numbers could even be tuned to ensure that no stunlocking could happen, also.

Edited by Sereglach, 23 August 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[Vincent Quatermain]

Mystere, on 23 August 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

What makes you think similar situations are not happening now when an object steps into your line of fire (fully or otherwise), or your target steps out of it, as or shortly after you've pulled the trigger?

What you are describing would cause this to happen way more often, sometimes hilariously so (as described above). Nothing as ludicrous as crossing lines of fire happens in the current game. You are saying that this should happen multiple times in every match -- for play balance!

[Wecx]

xeromynd, on 23 August 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Wait...what? I genuinely expected different changes than these. So now, essentially, we're diving into each individual weapon system and giving them specific values that will contribute to your mech's heat. Sound familiar anyone?

People defending this system as "less complicated than Ghost Heat," your argument just got taken down a peg.

People were making good suggestions like scaling "Energy Pools" based on Engine Size (not in favor) or Weight Class. Removing the Gauss charge, undoing the nerfs to C-LPL range, etc... People were telling you exactly what they wanted to change, and which changes were stupid to begin with. Where did they get the metrics, comments, and opinions that lead to these new changes? (Aka. "everything needs to draw more energy, basically) I'd thought the consensus was that Auto-cannons drawing the same ratio of energy to damage as lasers was stupid, not the opposite.


Oh and, here are things you still aren't doing, PGI:

-You are not incentivizing PTS participation. This needs to happen. You need people in this PTS, all kinds of people, you need casual players, experienced players, veterans who're trying out the game again, etc... I give up on PTS after 3-4 matches because I'm not having fun (yes, that's subjective) and not making any CBills in an already tiring grind.

-(Because of the above) You are not accurately capturing what matches will be like with only 4v4 battles. Yes, I know it's hard to get people on the PTS, but would it kill you to give a player say, 5,000,000 CBills in their live account for 1 Hour of PTS participation? "WoAh FiVe MiLlIoN!!??! R U INsAnE Br0??"

Is our feedback and time not valuable? When Johnny-Mech-Bro overheats in a 4v4 match, survives enemy fire, and continues on to help his team eliminate the 4 enemies, he thinks "wow I overheated but it wasn't that bad!" Yeah, because you don't have 8 other players to lob missiles, bullets, and lasers at you the instant you shut down. Not to mention ammo count is totally different. Focus-fire from more than 4 players is not represented at all.

-You are not making the grind any more fun. Longer TTK? Longer grind, simple.

-(As far as we can see) You are not taking into consideration that many of your Champion/Trial mechs are not built for this system at all. Why even bother asking the community to make trial builds if they're made for a system that'll be going out the window.

-You are not making this easy for new players. Where will a new player go in game to find out what the hell his energy bar is doing, and the energy draw values for each of his weapons? Having to go on a forum to find out weapon values and use third party build tools is off-putting to new players. (But this could be said about many aspects of this game...) I trust the Mechwarrior Academy will be updated with thorough training on the energy draw system when this patch is implemented?

WOW, Real Talk!!