22 replies to this topic

[Obelus]

What's it trying to achieve? Reduce Boating? Reduce Huge Alphas? Increased TTK?

Wouldn't lowering the heat cap or fixing double heat sinks do all these things and be less confusing?

I don't get it.

[El Bandito]

I am just happy that PGI is trying out something they think will work, instead of not doing anything. Lord knows there are easier/lorefriendly/less convoluted solutions to massed boating and alphas, but PGI likes to do its own thing.

[ScarecrowES]

El Bandito, on 27 August 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

I am just happy that PGI is trying out something they think will work, instead of not doing anything. Lord knows there are easier/lorefriendly/less convoluted solutions to massed boating and alphas, but PGI likes to do its own thing.

http://mwomercs.com/...tt-heat-system/

I agree, better ways to do it.

And yes, I'm glad PGI is at least trying. It's unfortunate that what they're trying is often poorly conceived. I'm curious as to whether PGI did internal testing on ED before they did the PTS. Most problems with the system are pretty glaring, and could be seen right from the write-up. It really shouldn't have gone into PTS. A few days of internal testing would have shown that the system was unworkable as-designed.

I'm grateful for the fact that PGI bothered to create the system and let us test it to prove the point. Somehow, though, I think their effort would have been better spent on some of the better ideas the community puts out.

Perhaps they're just choosing the wrong people to listen to.

[SamsungNinja]

Because the fact that Kodiaks (among others) can spam 30dmg C-UAC alphas nonstop while the IS 20DHS/5ML build fights, shuts down, overrides, powers up, and dies is complete cheese?

Edited by SamsungNinja, 27 August 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[Felbombling]

Because using the built in heat system, already there ready and waiting if properly implemented, would be too convoluted.

[Obelus]

SamsungNinja, on 27 August 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Because the fact that Kodiaks (among others) can spam 30dmg C-UAC alphas nonstop while the IS 20DHS/5ML build fights, shuts down, overrides, powers up, and dies is complete cheese?

Ahh good point. Could just raise the heat on them though couldn't you? Or increase reload time?

Reload times always seemed like a good way to balance clan tech. Weapons that hit harder should reload more slowly.

Edited by Obelus, 27 August 2016 - 11:21 AM.

[Tordin]

I think the ED idea is a good one, at least some of the best solutions to the otherways crippled TTK.
It all could be solved with doing away with pin point convergence and make weapon hits spread kinda.
But doing that will make L33Ts, trolls, and ultracopsognatus players frothe and threat PGI with bloody murder for "ruining" their alpha warrior online..

So for now Im hoping the ED will do alot better than our dear Ghost Heat which have been haunting us for a long time, well at least the ED will be different kind of ghost..

Edited by Tordin, 27 August 2016 - 01:04 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Observing their development since late closed beta. Once they get an idea in their head. It's hard to dissuade them otherwise. The Town Hall where people were trying convince them that Long Tom is bad, Russ was bobbing and weaving around it like a pro boxer.

They do make some changes based on feedback. But if you want them to change the entire concept. Well, don't hold your breath. The only time they did that was with Ghost Range lock on mechanic. And that was because it was on the eve of the Steam launch and got a lot of diaper filling feedback. In that case they just dumped it.

I think some people are hoping that they do the same with ED. But they don't have the pressure of a launch. And the initial reception was good.

Edited by MechaBattler, 27 August 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[AnTi90d]

Obelus, on 27 August 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Or increase reload time?

Reload times always seemed like a good way to balance clan tech. Weapons that hit harder should reload more slowly.

Hell.. I think it'd be worth a shot on the PTS to try a double-time tabletop turn system.. IE: Everything has a 5 second reload and UACs can fire every 2.5 seconds and DHS cool at 0.4 heat/second.

Kody-3 wouldn't be so scary to new people if they had more of a chance to torso twist or duck under cover between shots.

MechaBattler, on 27 August 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

(ED).. the initial reception was good.

Roughly 45% of the game's population is against ED. This whole PTS has shown that 45% didn't like ED1 or ED2.. so implementing some form of ED would directly be against the wishes of 45% of the playerbase.. It would be a poor business decision to implement ED in either form.

1.) The reddit poll.
http://www.strawpoll.me/11037470
http://www.strawpoll.me/11037470/r
(The second link is a directl link to the results.. because the first link might not let you vote, today, as Google is under a large DDOS attack for this weekend because of something they did to Google maps in Israel/Palestine.)

2.) The first ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...35126-gh-or-ed/

3.) The second ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...y-draw-round-2/

4.) The third ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...ference-survey/
(This is too young of a poll to draw conclusions from, currently.. give it a few days.)

There is a clear pattern of roughly 45% of the playerbase not wanting ED. Putting any form of ED into the live server is going to piss off four out of every ten players. MWO can't afford the potential loss of those people. Their best bet is to just say, "We tried," and move their development dollars on to other projects.

[MechaBattler]

AnTi90d, on 27 August 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Hell.. I think it'd be worth a shot on the PTS to try a double-time tabletop turn system.. IE: Everything has a 5 second reload and UACs can fire every 2.5 seconds and DHS cool at 0.4 heat/second.

Kody-3 wouldn't be so scary to new people if they had more of a chance to torso twist or duck under cover between shots.







Roughly 45% of the game's population is against ED. This whole PTS has shown that 45% didn't like ED1 or ED2.. so implementing some form of ED would directly be against the wishes of 45% of the playerbase.. It would be a poor business decision to implement ED in either form.

1.) The reddit poll.
http://www.strawpoll.me/11037470
http://www.strawpoll.me/11037470/r
(The second link is a directl link to the results.. because the first link might not let you vote, today, as Google is under a large DDOS attack for this weekend because of something they did to Google maps in Israel/Palestine.)

2.) The first ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...35126-gh-or-ed/

3.) The second ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...y-draw-round-2/

4.) The third ED poll, here
http://mwomercs.com/...ference-survey/
(This is too young of a poll to draw conclusions from, currently.. give it a few days.)

There is a clear pattern of roughly 45% of the playerbase not wanting ED. Putting any form of ED into the live server is going to piss off four out of every ten players. MWO can't afford the potential loss of those people. Their best bet is to just say, "We tried," and move their development dollars on to other projects.

45% of the people who voted for that poll. Not the playerbase. I would wager that the majority of players don't even care enough to post on the forum or else where. They probably just play for fun and then go about their day. The first poll has 209 votes. Now I know we've hit some hard times in population cap. But from what we've seen on the Steam metrics, there's at least over 1000. That doesn't include people who snub Steam and just run the MWO client.

So it's not really 45% of the playerbase. I dunno if it's even 45% of the forum population. The website says there has been over 700 users come through. So if anything, it really shows just how small a sampling on feedback they're getting. Which I think is a good reason to grouse about their lack of incentivizing the PTS and running during an event : /

Edit: Though I suppose some of those people are in the different language part of the website.

Edited by MechaBattler, 27 August 2016 - 03:05 PM.

[AnTi90d]

MechaBattler, on 27 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

45% of the people who voted for that poll. Not the playerbase.
..it's not really 45% of the playerbase.

[Monkey Lover]

Yes cutting the heat cap by 50% would do the same thing. At the same time people would cry cry cry. Just look how much they cry when you get a hot map. So they're going to long way around to do the same thing.

[prox]

SamsungNinja, on 27 August 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Because the fact that Kodiaks (among others) can spam 30dmg C-UAC alphas nonstop while the IS 20DHS/5ML build fights, shuts down, overrides, powers up, and dies is complete cheese?

Well maybe then KDK-3 is the problem not TTK. Big surprise.

[MechaBattler]

AnTi90d, on 27 August 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

45% of 210 people. That's not the playerbase! Even Steam says we have more than that. Let alone the stubborn old men who think Steam is evil.

[smokytehbear]

Obelus, on 27 August 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Ahh good point. Could just raise the heat on them though couldn't you? Or increase reload time?

Reload times always seemed like a good way to balance clan tech. Weapons that hit harder should reload more slowly.

Going to selectively retreat to realism for a second here, but ballistics causing any heat at all is kinda stupid because that's the whole point of gunpowder based weapons. Drawing power from a reactor raises heat, which makes sense for lasers and actually gauss rifles, but not guns or missiles. I think the most anti-realism part of ballistics/missiles is the ammo they can carry. No military machines in history except maybe an aircraft carrier has had 2,000+ missiles on it, and the time it would take to fire them all via jets is probably hours if not days. Same thing with ammo for ballistics really, carrying 1500+ shells for a UAC10 would probably take up more volume than the mech itself is in game, if you piled them up.

But to the conceptual point, yes, there are dozens of things you could and PGI should have changed before creating this second heat system.

[Monkey Lover]

MechaBattler, on 27 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

45% of the people who voted for that poll. Not the playerbase. I would wager that the majority of players don't even care enough to post on the forum or else where. They probably just play for fun and then go about their day. The first poll has 209 votes. Now I know we've hit some hard times in population cap. But from what we've seen on the Steam metrics, there's at least over 1000. That doesn't include people who snub Steam and just run the MWO client.

So it's not really 45% of the playerbase. I dunno if it's even 45% of the forum population. The website says there has been over 700 users come through. So if anything, it really shows just how small a sampling on feedback they're getting. Which I think is a good reason to grouse about their lack of incentivizing the PTS and running during an event : /

Edit: Though I suppose some of those people are in the different language part of the website.

Having a weekend event pisses off 45% of people. Lol Making more than 50% of people happy around here is a big deal.

[MechaBattler]

Monkey Lover, on 27 August 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

Having a weekend event pisses off 45% of people. Lol Making more than 50% of people happy around here is a big deal.

Sadly that's true. xD

[Red Shrike]

MechaBattler, on 27 August 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

45% of 210 people. That's not the playerbase! Even Steam says we have more than that. Let alone the stubborn old men who think Steam is evil.

I am pretty sure that 210 is a large enough sample size. I know of another game where a similar number of people cast a vote with 80% against a decision the dev team made. The devs then went ahead and said that the rest of the playerbase (which didn't vote) automatically agrees with their decision.

In other words, they're convinced that the silent majority automatically agrees with every decision they make and therefore automatically invalidates any polls regardless of the number of voters.

[smokytehbear]

Red Shrike, on 27 August 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

I am pretty sure that 210 is a large enough sample size. I know of another game where a similar number of people cast a vote with 80% against a decision the dev team made. The devs then went ahead and said that the rest of the playerbase (which didn't vote) automatically agrees with their decision.

In other words, they're convinced that the silent majority automatically agrees with every decision they make and therefore automatically invalidates any polls regardless of the number of voters.

"Another game"... is this like when you say "My friend has this problem..."? The other game is MWO right? ...Be honest.

210 people would be a good enough sample size, if it were randomly taken from the respective population it's supposed to represent. But it's not, it's only from people who knew about and cared enough one way or another to go to that one specific place. Most players don't go to these forums. Many probably have no clue these are even here, maybe thinking steam's forums are all there is.

[Red Shrike]

smokytehbear, on 27 August 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

"Another game"... is this like when you say "My friend has this problem..."? The other game is MWO right? ...Be honest.

210 people would be a good enough sample size, if it were randomly taken from the respective population it's supposed to represent. But it's not, it's only from people who knew about and cared enough one way or another to go to that one specific place. Most players don't go to these forums. Many probably have no clue these are even here, maybe thinking steam's forums are all there is.

The other game is called Heroes and Generals. (They redid the entire forum recently and the poll disappeared, and the dev comment stating that the votes do not represent the silent majority whom support the devs, is buried somewhere in the 115 pages long thread. (using the wayback machine to retrieve the poll, isn't working as well as I had hoped.)

Maybe, maybe not. The best way to get the results you want is an in-game poll. But devs aren't always keen on taking polls that way.