145 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Mycrus, on 03 September 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

as a light pilot, long-range poking lights are disease that need to be put down...

they aren't real lights...

What a trollish ignorant thing to say. Some players complain about no role warefare in this game and yet there are comments like this.

A long range light is as valid a role as any other and the direct counter to those is a short range light.

I play both long range and short range lights as well as the rest of the roles in this game. Being a long range light player is not easy to do well because often the other teams short range lights come to get an easy kill. The big advantage to lights as always is being so mobile to avoid or escape bad situations.

Being helpful to the team as a short or long range light is difficult as well.

Also don't lump the lag shielding cheats in with the legit players playing lights. That lag shield cheat can be used in any mech they just use it on lights more often because they can get away with it easier. Use the complaint button....

One last comment on light mechs, the Arctic Cheetah aka "Arctic Cheater" is called that for good reason and it has nothing to do with the mech.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 September 2016 - 08:53 AM.

[Besh]

MrMadguy, on 04 September 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

You know. I've actually tried playing Lights. I won't say, that lag shield, bad hitreg and broken hit boxes will do all the job. But with MWO's aiming system it's extremely hard to focus enough damage on Light. Lights are completely immune to LRMs. SRMs have too much spread. Lasers are hard to be pinpointed for long enough time. All ballistics require leading, that breaks convergence. Heavier 'Mechs have widely placed hardpoints - it breaks all convergence at close range too. All you need - is to run non stop in direction, that is perpendicular to enemies' lines of fire and spam JJs. Is it really that hard? Watch any video about Lights. Light pilot simply openly attacks group of enemy 'Mechs and barely takes any damage. Do you know, that any other 'Mech will be destroyed in a split second? I actually tried playing ACH. 200K CB just for running around and pew-pewing. Money for nothing and chicks for free. Great reward in comparison to 70K, I constantly earn in Assaults. But way too easy and too boring for me.

So stop pretending, that you're victims, guys. Hardest class to play - is Assault 'Mechs. You're big slow piece of crap - extremely easy to aim at, too slow to avoid, spread damage and maneuver, can't use any cover and hard to shoot due to low wide hardpoints. Split second and your ST is ripped, cuz everybody and their grannies has enough firepower and range (especially in case of Clan laser vomit). And you can't do anything about it.

Idk man, with every post of yours, you are moving more into the Shadows . This experience of yours about trying Lights, was like what, 3 Years ago ?

Weapons convergence does not exist anymore the way you describe, lag shield is mostly non existant, hitboxes are not broken at all ( even those on the Cheetah have been fixed ), and hitreg is NOT bad usually, and IF it is, it affects all weight Classes equally .

SRM spread is NOT bad if you use 2s, 4s, or 6s with Artemis, easy to do "im gonna split" dmg. to a Light taking you for easy prey . I have been, and have oneshotted moving Lights from 600 mtrs. out with Energy Weapons . You DO know you can move your mouse while shooting with a Laser to stay on Target, right ? I have been and have legged Lights with ACs . Its a question of reflexes mostly I think - and knowing how to maneuver .

Idk what your Problem is really, but the picture and Ideas you have regarding Lights are...off to say the least .

Edited by Besh, 04 September 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Besh, on 04 September 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

Idk man, with every post of yours, you are moving more into the Shadows . This experience of yours about trying Lights, was like what, 3 Years ago ?

Weapons convergence does not exist anymore the way you describe, lag shield is mostly non existant, hitboxes are not broken at all ( even those on the Cheetah have been fixed ), and hitreg is NOT bad usually, and IF it is, it affects all weight Classes equally .

SRM spread is NOT bad if you use 2s, 4s, or 6s with Artemis, easy to do "im gonna split" dmg. to a Light taking you for easy prey . I have been, and have oneshotted moving Lights from 600 mtrs. out with Energy Weapons . have been and have legged Lights with ACs .

Idk what your Problem is really, but the picture and Ideas you have regarding Lights are...off to say the least .

Your comments are valid but he may have been facing some dirty players and if you played for a while quoting him and tearing his comment apart is rather rude to say the least.

He mentions videos of lights running into entire squads of enemies and I have seen such videos on this very forum openly displayed where I am sure the guy in the video was banned. The same video, the guy could have been perma banned for two different cheats and I seen the video on this forum.

Anyway my point is, gameplay is actually really good and challenging for all involved and that a few ruining that shouldn't make it all look worse than it is.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 September 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Mycrus]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

What a trollish ignorant thing to say. Some players complain about no role warefare in this game and yet there are comments like this.

A long range light is as valid a role as any other and the direct counter to those is a short range light.

I play both long range and short range lights as well as the rest of the roles in this game. Being a long range light player is not easy to do well because often the other teams short range lights come to get an easy kill. The big advantage to lights as always is being so mobile to avoid or escape bad situations.

Being helpful to the team as a short or long range light is difficult as well.

Also don't lump the lag shielding cheats in with the legit players playing lights. That lag shield cheat can be used in any mech they just use it on lights more often because they can get away with it easier. Use the complaint button....

One last comment on light mechs, the Arctic Cheetah aka "Arctic Cheater" is called that for good reason and it has nothing to do with the mech.

Yawn.. tldr.

[Besh]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Your comments are valid but he may have been facing some dirty players and if you played for a while quoting him and tearing his comment apart is rather rude to say the least.

He mentions videos of lights running into entire squads of enemies and I have seen such videos on this very forum openly displayed where I am sure the guy in the video was banned. The same video, the guy could have been perma banned for two different cheats and I seen the video on this forum.

Anyway my point is, gameplay is actually really good and challenging for all involved and that a few ruining that shouldn't make it all look worse than it is.

I see.

Well, I rather appear to be rude than leaving his statements, which he made in reference to the entire Light Class, uncorrected .

Tough **** huh ?

Edited by Besh, 04 September 2016 - 10:07 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Besh, on 04 September 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

I see.

Well, I rather appear to be rude than leaving his statements, which he made in reference to the entire Light Class, uncorrected .

Tough **** huh ?

Well really you were both right. He is also right that assaults are the toughest to play. Not toughest to do well in but toughest to play. Fore thought and positioning is everything for slow easy to hit mechs.

[dario03]

MrMadguy, on 04 September 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

...
So stop pretending, that you're victims, guys. Hardest class to play - is Assault 'Mechs. You're big slow piece of crap - extremely easy to aim at, too slow to avoid, spread damage and maneuver, can't use any cover and hard to shoot due to low wide hardpoints. Split second and your ST is ripped, cuz everybody and their grannies has enough firepower and range (especially in case of Clan laser vomit). And you can't do anything about it.

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Well really you were both right. He is also right that assaults are the toughest to play. Not toughest to do well in but toughest to play. Fore thought and positioning is everything for slow easy to hit mechs.

All depends on which chassis and variant you have. Some are harder than others but Kodiak 3, Banshee 3m, and Battlemaster 2c are all extremely easy to play. But I would say that overall the only class that is easier to play is heavies. And thats just a maybe and more so for pug games since in a slow assault you might get left behind.

[Supersmacky]

Stop feeding the troll. MrMadGuy already said there is nothing anyone can say to change his mind. In other words, you may clearly demonstrate how wrong he is (both in his theory and his proposal) and he will reject it irrationally.

MrMadGuy is either trolling and getting off on the argument/debate/disruption he is causing or he is so thoroughly ignorant that he cannot be reasoned with. The third option is he is just so butt hurt that his precious assaults get owned/outmaneuvered by lights that he is blind with anger. In any instance, it is a pointless discussion.

MrMadGuy, you are wrong on all possible levels in this discussion. If you decide not to play anymore because of the horrible, scary lights, then all I can say is: buh bye. Regardless, I'm done with this discussion and recommend everyone else let this thread go necro.

Cheers.

[Chados]

The only time this is a problem is in a skirmish match. Playing Conquest, Domination, or Assault, this problem is nonexistent.

Over 95% of the time the last mech standing is either a LRM boater or a light. That's just the way it is, because the brawlers and midrange skirmishers die first. Long range snipeboats are the ones who survive longest because they aren't getting shot at as much and lights get run off with a few well placed shots early on but if you're driving a heavy or assault you have more immediate threats to deal with when the prowling light goes away.

Where OP's problem comes up there are two ways to deal with it. First, if you're dead and spectating, just quit. I usually quit right after I get terminated in game. That's not ragequitting, it's going for another mech in the mechbay so I can keep playing. Playing > watching others play. Second, if you're one of the ones still in the game there's noting for it but to suck it up and stick it out. If the evading light driver is legit he or she will make a mistake sooner or later. If he or she is just a hiding, powered-down coward, and someone still alive has an active probe, you'll find him. Otherwise, you're screwed til the timer runs out. That's life and fortunately it doesn't happen that often. I don't think there needs to be some sort of change in game mechanic to prevent lights from evading at the end, because it just isn't that big of a problem.

Also, you CAN LRM Locusts. You just have to be closer than 950 meters to do it. And you CAN evade/kill lights in an assault. Especially if you have streak SRMs. I killed a Pirate's Bane in an Archer 5W a couple days ago, and I've jump-jet turned an Executioner to shoot at Ravens or Arctic Cheetahs many times in the very brief time I've had them. By the way, leveling unbasiced Executioners and Ebon Jaguars, especially during a weird event, is really, really painful. EXEs have less pod space than most Clan mediums and CT for days, and EBJs are a giant nose and as squishy as the average Rifleman, at least in my hands.

Edited by Chados, 04 September 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Besh]

Supersmacky, on 04 September 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

Stop feeding the troll. MrMadGuy already said there is nothing anyone can say to change his mind. In other words, you may clearly demonstrate how wrong he is (both in his theory and his proposal) and he will reject it irrationally.

MrMadGuy is either trolling and getting off on the argument/debate/disruption he is causing or he is so thoroughly ignorant that he cannot be reasoned with. The third option is he is just so butt hurt that his precious assaults get owned/outmaneuvered by lights that he is blind with anger. In any instance, it is a pointless discussion.

MrMadGuy, you are wrong on all possible levels in this discussion. If you decide not to play anymore because of the horrible, scary lights, then all I can say is: buh bye. Regardless, I'm done with this discussion and recommend everyone else let this thread go necro.

Cheers.

Taking your advice to Heart, thanks for that .

[MrMadguy]

You're like Shamans in Wow back in WotLK. This mentality of always whining, that "We are the weakest, most broken and least popular class in whole game - we need buffs/others need to be nerfed!!!111" no matter what, even when it isn't the case - is ridiculous. Also there is something similar between you and Paladins back in the same WotLK. You play class, that has easiest learning curve - all you need, is running non stop, spamming JJs and pew-pewing. And when you're successful - you say, that it isn't due to class being OP or easy to play - you say, that it's due to your mega-skill.

There is no weapons, except SSRMs may be, in whole game, that can be called direct counter of Light 'Mechs. I really wish LBX to have knockdown effect against Lights, but it's just dream - return of knockdown mechanic back into game may fix some of problems with Lights being imbalanced. In fact, the only counter of Light 'Mechs - is focused fire of several 'Mechs for long enough period of time, which is complete nonsense. Do you know, that Light can easily kill Assault 1vs1, if Assault pilot don't have Gausses onboard and enough skill to make precise anticipatory shot? So what class is most gimped in whole MWO?

[Aramuside]

Johnny Z, on 04 September 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Well really you were both right. He is also right that assaults are the toughest to play. Not toughest to do well in but toughest to play. Fore thought and positioning is everything for slow easy to hit mechs.

Not really sure that's true anymore as the dynamic was broken by Kodiaks which had a combination of maneuverability/firepower we'd not seen before. Also with all the current competitions and sales shaping play we're usually running with 4-5 assaults (not including this last weekend due to the off tournament goals).

Thers

[MrMadguy]

Not bad for playing 'Mech class, I've barely ever played, in stock build and not mastered 'Mech (cuz I've never bought any Lights in my life). A little bit practice and I'll be OP.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 September 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[Trollfeed]

Now do same with stock commando.

[Requiemking]

MrMadguy, on 05 September 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Not bad for playing 'Mech class, I've barely ever played, in stock build and not mastered 'Mech (cuz I've never bought any Lights in my life). A little bit practice and I'll be OP.

First off, which Stock Cheetah are you using? and are you sure your using a Stock build and not the Trial build? Secondly, thats a Cheetah. Try replicating that score with any other light, and then you'll understand just how hard we Light pilots work to get anywhere in MWO.

[MrMadguy]

All 'Mechs are terrible with stock builds and when they're not mastered - try any stock IS Assault for example. Also there are good and bad variants and good and bad builds among any other 'Mechs. There are plenty of good Lights. ACH isn't the only decent Light - there are also Spiders, Firestarters, Ravens, Jenners and even Locusts. They all do pretty much well. All I'm trying to say, is that Lights aren't actually that bad and that they don't require any super skill to be piloted. You may simply jump in a do well in them, as in any other 'Mech in this game. And you don't need any starvation tactics, any other privileges and unfair advantages to do well and earn good enough rewards. Therefore sky won't fall, if Engage timer feature will be implemented. The only thing, that will change - one player won't be able to hold the whole match, which is definitely bad game design.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 September 2016 - 10:39 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Requiemking, on 05 September 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

First off, which Stock Cheetah are you using? and are you sure your using a Stock build and not the Trial build? Secondly, thats a Cheetah. Try replicating that score with any other light, and then you'll understand just how hard we Light pilots work to get anywhere in MWO.

His post was utterly hilarious.

"Look at me, inexperienced in a stock build, still rocking it!"

Except he's got the Champ, which is NOT a stock build, and is if anything the build for ACH's: ACH-PRIME(C) The SPL build is arguably a bit stronger, but requires a bit more skill heat management wise.

What he's done here is taken the single strongest light, in the strongest newbie-light-pilot build, and done well with it. Shock! Awe! Who would have thought?

Try that with a Jenner. Or a Spider.

[MrMadguy]

Wintersdark, on 05 September 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

His post was utterly hilarious.

"Look at me, inexperienced in a stock build, still rocking it!"

Except he's got the Champ, which is NOT a stock build, and is if anything the build for ACH's: ACH-PRIME(C) The SPL build is arguably a bit stronger, but requires a bit more skill heat management wise.

What he's done here is taken the single strongest light, in the strongest newbie-light-pilot build, and done well with it. Shock! Awe! Who would have thought?

Try that with a Jenner. Or a Spider.

Any other excuses? Telling me to do well in specified Light 'Mech is BS. This can be told about any 'Mech class. "Try that with Highlander". Or "Try that with Dragon". Yeah? What I've proved, is that you can do well in Light 'Mechs without any skill. You just can't accept simple truth. YOU. DON'T. NEED. SPECIAL. PRIVILEGES. PERIOD. Win match the way, any other 'Mechs do. If you can't - it's your personal problem. May be you should participate in match more actively? No other 'Mechs can execute starvation tactic and hold the whole match. No other modes allow that, expect Skirmish. No other games allow such abuse. This should be fixed. As simple, as that.

[Wintersdark]

MrMadguy, on 05 September 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

Any other excuses? Telling me to do well in specified Light 'Mech is BS. This can be told about any 'Mech class. "Try that with Highlander". Or "Try that with Dragon". Yeah? What I've proved, is that you can do well in Light 'Mechs without any skill. You just can't accept simple truth. YOU. DON'T. NEED. SPECIAL. PRIVILEGES. PERIOD. Win match the way, any other 'Mechs do. If you can't - it's your personal problem. May be you should participate in match more actively? No other 'Mechs can execute starvation tactic and hold the whole match. No other modes allow that, expect Skirmish. No other games allow such abuse. This should be fixed. As simple, as that.

Nice use of "You" there. I'm an assault pilot, and have less than 1% of my total matches in lights.

Nobody has special privileges. A light with more speed using that speed to maintain range vs. an assault is exactly the same as an assault with more firepower using that massive firepower to crush a light that gets into it's reach.

After all, that assault had every opportunity to pack an ERLL or two for light control purposes.

A light not engaging at all is a chickenshit coward, and deserves all the scorn he'll rightly get, but engagement timers are not the solution. As long as he's actually trying to fight, then all the power to him.

[PaeuxP22]

That is probably the strongest light in the game, I did 800+ dmg in my first match of my kodiak k3, does that mean all assaults are op??

While I understand the frustration of bumbling after a locust in an assault, why should the light be forced onto the assaults weapons. Hardly seems fair. Why not make it a sprint race to a nav point?? Just as evenly matched. Manoeuvrability and the ability to pick and choose your fights is the only advantage lights have. And if 1 in a thousand matches ends slightly differently to all the others because of this, why is that a bad thing?