78 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

0bsidion, on 07 September 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

Lore wise, Clan pilots tended to be better because of genetic engineering, plus their ERPPC was 15 points of PPFLD, and against lore armor values, that alone could take off the limbs of some mechs in 2 hits or less. Add in solid slugs for the cLBX-10s and the LRM-15 rack, a Summoner could pretty much tear up a single mechs 1 on 1 with focused fire lore wise in a few rounds.

The stock Summoner Prime is a fantastic dueling mech, even against other Clan Mechs.... So I made a little adjustment to what you said there... 5/8/5 gives it a lot of mobility on the TT, with high initiative roll you could position yourself behind most mechs easily and murder them.

[0bsidion]

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

The stock Summoner Prime is a fantastic dueling mech, even against other Clan Mechs.... So I made a little adjustment to what you said there... 5/8/5 gives it a lot of mobility on the TT, with high initiative roll you could position yourself behind most mechs easily and murder them.

Yeah, it lost a lot of its teeth in translation to MWO. In TT, with luck and skill, it could believably give a full lance of IS mechs a run for their money. In MWO, they'd be laughing as they stepped over your smoldering corpse after about 2 seconds.

[knight-of-ni]

It's all just marketing fluff.

[Bishop Steiner]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yea, I read the lore about how clanners are unstoppable (which, isn't quite true... if it really takes 3 to 1 to overtake clanner advantage, how come Victor dropped a coalition no where near that number and still annihilated the smoke jaguar?)

And regardless of how "advance" someone can be, if you are getting hit by depleted uranium, you are being hit by depleted uranium. doesn't matter if it's being fired from a battlemech or a civil war cannon. Clanners uses FF and XL engines... it's not like they are using blakchole fusion engine with gundam swords. besides, i failed to see how a mx90 can have enough weakness to exploit. I think the lore writers are slightly way over exaggerated on that part.

-----------

PS alistair, didn't the clanners in the cartoon like... lose quite a bit?
https://en.wikipedia...Animated_Series

might want to compare the actual size of the forces arrayed against each other in operation Serpent and Bulldog.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

might want to compare the actual size of the forces arrayed against each other in operation Serpent and Bulldog.

Not to mention quality of the troops on both sides, as well as the equipment on both sides during those operations, specifically for Serpent...

[jaxjace]

The idiot IS pilots were running LRMS, i would have charged them too!

the mauler with no dakka is no threat, the bushwacker with no srms is no threat and the Axeman is a choppy mech, LOL GG CLOSE INNER SPHERE.

[Bishop Steiner]

If Heimdelight or Proton faced off against 3 tier 3 or lower scrubs who never bothered to try to work together?

Eminently possible.

Oftentimes it's not the metal, but the meat..

And sometimes...... Lots and lots of plot armor.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 September 2016 - 11:28 AM.

[FLG 01]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

if it really takes 3 to 1 to overtake clanner advantage, how come Victor dropped a coalition no where near that number and still annihilated the smoke jaguar?

It does not take a 3:1 advantage, at least not always.

Victor glanced down at the screen of his small noteputer. "With three Dragoon regiments, the Eleventh Lyran Guards, the Harloc Raiders, and the Knights of the Inner Sphere added into our force, I show us with approximately twelve and a half 'Mech regiments. The Falcons are reported at a strength of four Galaxies on the planet, which would make us roughly twice their size. According to conventional wisdom that makes the two forces virtually equal."
Ragnar's blue eyes flicked from the display to Victor. "Remember, Highness, the Kell Hounds, the Dragoons, and the ComStar units have a great deal of equipment that originated from within the Clans. With the exception of the Harloc Raiders, the rest of the units in your force all have updated Inner Sphere equipment. A two-to-one ratio in favor of the Inner Sphere was necessary to achieve parity with Clan forces back when the invasion started, but by now your two-to-one advantage may be closer to a true advantage."
(Stackpole, Malicious Intent)

That is from 3058, so the IS equipment there is slightly more advanced than what we have but not dramatically so.

When it comes to offensive operations, the attacker should have a numerical superiority anyway. Bulldog had almost everything in its favour: numbers, motivation, strategy. And the tech advantage of the Clanners was too small to even remotely compensate what they were facing.

Call me nostalgic, but the ending of MW:3 is still a perfect describtion of what happened:

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Like, where have I been all these times?

If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around? A mauler MX90 can probably kill a thor, a bushwacker, and another 65 tonner.

So... either the lore is lying to us about how strong Clanners really are... or someone did f-up the lore when implementing.

(Cause, like... who the hell uses a Thor? It's like one of the rarest find in the game. Lots of Mx90 though.)

PS referring to the Bushwacker lore page btw. (Also, why does the whole passage read like it praises how a Thor, standing out in the open, managed to not die against 3 mechs from concealed position and scared them pants-less, rather than something about the Bushwacker?)

Clearly you've NEVER followed Battletech lore.

[razenWing]

Summing up the discussion so far, the conclusion I reached is that C-LRM is underrated in the game. So I propose a change. C-LRM now takes 10 seconds reload, but do 10x the damage they do now.

Lore/Reality inconsistency solved. GJ me.

[dervishx5]

Or remove clan LRM minimum range since they didn't have them in TT.

NO WAIT-

[Metus regem]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

Summing up the discussion so far, the conclusion I reached is that C-LRM is underrated in the game. So I propose a change. C-LRM now takes 10 seconds reload, but do 10x the damage they do now.

Lore/Reality inconsistency solved. GJ me.

....




Okay boys, let's take this to the birds now!

[MischiefSC]

In TT you could destroy a Lance of IS mechs solo in a madcat. A little kiting, called "low" shots for legging and then alpha the **** out of the ones who fail a piloting skill check and fall.

You would usually win initiative and with both better range and better gunnery skill you'd usually have a 30% better hit rate, 30% more damage. Usually 25% faster too.

[razenWing]

Well, I don't know how popular the concept of tuning up engines in the lore. But a TBF only has advantage in speed against stock engine IS mechs (which is 64 standard I think). And again, I don't know if Omni-engines are upgradable in lore, but assume they work like in the game where they are always stock...

Then... speed nullified? Again, no idea what I am talking about. Maybe there's not really a lot of customization in the lore?

Edited by razenWing, 07 September 2016 - 12:58 PM.

[Metus regem]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Well, I don't know how popular the concept of tuning up engines in the lore. But a TBF only has advantage in speed against stock engine IS mechs (which is 64 standard I think). And again, I don't know if Omni-engines are upgradable in lore, but assume they work like in the game where they are always stock...

Then... speed nullified? Again, no idea what I am talking about. Maybe there's not really a lot of customization in the lore?

....

Customization is not really a thing in Lore or TT, customising a mech is very, very expensive... often costing more than the mech is worth...

I'll use a Warhammer I used in a campgain game, it started life as a WHM-6R (6,070,984 C-bills), by the time I was done it was worth: 17,250,467 C-bills, but my character had spent more than double that tweaking the hell out of that mech. As you have to pay for jumpships and drop ships to find a factory that can do the work you need on the mech, that can get you everything you need... And that's not counting the months, yes months that mech is out of action, not earning you any c-bills.

99% of all mechs in any force in Lore or TT are stock... Omni mechs cannot change their engine sizes with out giving up being an omni-mech...

As for changing engine sizes, next time you open the hood of your car, look in the engin bay, and tell me how easy do you think it would be to take what ever is in there and replace it with something else, that may be nothing like it, it would be like taking a front wheel drive 2 liter engine and slapping in a 440 six-pack, that's what happens with Standard Engine vs XL engine swaps.

[razenWing]

Yea, but I also assume there are future technicians with cyborg robot arms and AI assistance, not 21st century local gas station repair man,

Degree of difficulty for Bob from Fix-n-Drive? High

Degree of difficulty for Taramisu-Onasis of 22nd Super Killer Regiment? Nil

[Metus regem]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Yea, but I also assume there are future technicians with cyborg robot arms and AI assistance, not 21st century local gas station repair man,

Degree of difficulty for Bob from Fix-n-Drive? High

Degree of difficulty for Taramisu-Onasis of 22nd Super Killer Regiment? Nil

A lot of worlds were nuked into 1950's - 1990's era tech during the first secession war. There are some qulifiled techs, but they are snapped up fast, your average mech tech repair team are on par with what we have now.... Just look at a modern car vs a car from the 1960's/70's, an older model from the 60's/70's is a lot easier to fix in the drive way at home (equivalent to a mech hanger), than it is for a car from 2016 that more or less needs to go the dealership for repairs (factory level automated repair facility).

I really suggest you read some of the lore on Sarna or better yet out of the books (TT books) to have a better understanding of the universe....

[LordKnightFandragon]

I just hope the Bushwacker makes it into HBS Battletech. It probably is my favorite medium mech.

BUt the Atlas is huge, the Warhawk is huge, the Warhammer is tall as hell, the centurion is wide...but the Bushwacker, the one mech that is actually wide, but short and narrow, they make tall and skinny...like the Centurion should be.

[Metus regem]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 September 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

I just hope the Bushwacker makes it into HBS Battletech. It probably is my favorite medium mech.

BUt the Atlas is huge, the Warhawk is huge, the Warhammer is tall as hell, the centurion is wide...but the Bushwacker, the one mech that is actually wide, but short and narrow, they make tall and skinny...like the Centurion should be.

I serious doubt that the Bushy will be HBS battle tech at the start... HBS battle tech is set in 3025/28... about 28-25 years too early for the Bushy...

[Wecx]

a 1/3 Clan Pilot on TT could take out 3 IS 4/5 pilots easy, plus with the summoners jump jets you could go from heavy woods to heavy woods as well.