78 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

Well, I know this is all speculation from video game but... what sets you that different from an "elite" pilot? Cause let's be honest... you have "aces" in air combat because it's a realm of fighting beyond human senses with speed and forces beyond normal comprehension. So yes, skill applies between a poor pilot and a good pilot.

With battlemechs... you have stompy robots fighting on a 2-D plane going slower than modern tanks. They are essentially mobile firing platforms. There's really nothing that's "elite" about one pilot from another. (I suppose if you are a better gunner... but then... would future human not figure out some sorta auto lock-on? They have them right now in the F-35 helmets.)

The more I think about it... there's really nothing "warrior" about being a mechwarrior, and really nothing that should stand out as legendary or elite about any pilots.

Just saying.

well maybe those warriors are computer nerds - with perfect shaped body and able to run a marathon with 40kg backpack - but still computer nerds.
The main difference might be their ability to "hack" into the firing solution of their computer.

Consider the ranges of "real BT combat" to be 5-6 times what we have now (the range was only given because of the needs of TT not because it was "lore")
So a computer might check the target movement and might guess were the target will be when the bullet arrives - the "warrior" can choose a firing solution or might take a manual one.
For example this could be well used in MWO. were you have manually to zero in the weapons.


Anyhow of course there is the stupid "lore friendly" explanation that the IS fought a war and almost bombed itself back into stone age - and now the techs are not longer able to maintain modern target and tracking systems.

This explanation is stupid, the Clans while they had their own couple of wars - but no real total war so there was no loose of tech - but still the weapons only reached puny 750m? Pathetic

Another hint is: that somewhere missiles are described as non-guided. Because the counter measures made it almost impossible to score a hit with guided weapons.
Of course there is the artemis system and again you ask - a fire control system that is a guidance system?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 07 September 2016 - 10:31 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

Karl Streiger, on 07 September 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

well maybe those warriors are computer nerds - with perfect shaped body and able to run a marathon with 40kg backpack - but still computer nerds.
The main difference might be their ability to "hack" into the firing solution of their computer.

umm... neural interface is used by clams. that's why on the first page the picture of malthus has those weird circuit boards on his face.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 07 September 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[FalconerGray]

Karl Streiger, on 07 September 2016 - 10:30 PM, said:

Anyhow of course there is the stupid "lore friendly" explanation that the IS fought a war and almost bombed itself back into stone age - and now the techs are not longer able to maintain modern target and tracking systems.

This explanation is stupid, the Clans while they had their own couple of wars - but no real total war so there was no loose of tech - but still the weapons only reached puny 750m? Pathetic

Ever read anything from the 'Foundation' series?

Lost Technology is a brilliant sci-fi plotline and one that I believe is certainly plausible under the right circumstances.

[Mazzyplz]

here's an actual video of adam steiner getting pwnt by a summoner

[Hades Trooper]

0bsidion, on 07 September 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

Yeah, it lost a lot of its teeth in translation to MWO. In TT, with luck and skill, it could believably give a full lance of IS mechs a run for their money. In MWO, they'd be laughing as they stepped over your smoldering corpse after about 2 seconds.

That sir is a challenge, my stock summoner shall wreck the world!

[Dogstar]

Just in case no one has realised it: a lot of the BT fiction is utterly awful. It's mass produced with no fact checking, and the writers didn't play the game.

So frankly the 'Lore' is poor and inconsistent and picking holes in it isn't exactly tricky.

We should either suspend our disbelief and put up with it or stop playing this game.

I'm going to keep playing.

[dervishx5]

Dogstar, on 07 September 2016 - 11:04 PM, said:

Just in case no one has realised it: a lot of the BT fiction is utterly awful. It's mass produced with no fact checking, and the writers didn't play the game.

So frankly the 'Lore' is poor and inconsistent and picking holes in it isn't exactly tricky.

We should either suspend our disbelief and put up with it or stop playing this game.

I'm going to keep playing.

Just in case you don't realize it, the novels' "canon" is overridden by sourcebooks every time. Those are fact checked in all of their glorious 10th-grade history book style.

But yes most of the novels are awful camp.

[Karl Streiger]

legatoblues, on 07 September 2016 - 10:46 PM, said:

Lost Technology is a brilliant sci-fi plotline and one that I believe is certainly plausible under the right circumstances.

Well it was a good plot line - until they brought this stuff like Star League Tech and Clans. Suddenly the lost technology and the imperfection in electronics didn't make sense anymore.

[BigBenn]

Bud Crue, on 07 September 2016 - 04:23 PM, said:

Nerds.

WTF does Sarna, BT lore, clan "superiority", TT costs of mechs and the difficulty in customizing mechs in that game platform, the relative ability of RL mechanics and techs of as described in BT game or novels, etc, etc, have to do with this game?

Answer: absolutely nothing. I wish it did, but it doesn't. Now go play with your Warhammer with its chest mounted Gauss rifles and one shot a "Thor" then talk to me about how one clan mech should be able to take down a lance of IS mechs in the "lore".

There is no lore in MWO there is only "balance" because all mechs are equal in this "competitive" game right?

Do you really think many people would even play an IS mech in any manner outside of IS vs IS battles if a single Clan mech could constantly take on 3-5 IS mechs and win? Clan mechs are still superior in MWO even with the "game balances" that have been applied.

Edited by BigBenn, 08 September 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Because they have half the armor values in TT. So a Thor with a UAC-20 is an absolutely fatal threat. With its speed mobility and jumpjets you can get it into cheeky positions with that bigass cannon and basically one shot anything you hit solidtly with that gun.

[Bud Crue]

BigBenn, on 08 September 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

Do you really think many people would even play an IS mech in any manner outside of IS vs IS battles if a single Clan mech could constantly take on 3-5 IS mechs and win? Clan mechs are still superior even with the "game balances" that have been applied.

Yes I know. That's the point. This thread is four pages of folks largely yapping about how the story for the Bushwacker doesn't match the game or doesn't match the lore.

As to the first: duh its a story based on a cartoon, based on board game and none of that...other than the names of the mechs applies to this game. As to the later where is any of that lore that cited, quoted or included in this game? It isn't. So I am boggled how anyone can find relevancy or applicability of that story to this game? There simply is none.

I mean doesn't it strike you as a bit, well, nerdy to be debating on the MWO forums about the propriety of things that are not part of MWO?

[Requiemking]

BigBenn, on 08 September 2016 - 05:40 AM, said:

Do you really think many people would even play an IS mech in any manner outside of IS vs IS battles if a single Clan mech could constantly take on 3-5 IS mechs and win? Clan mechs are still superior in MWO even with the "game balances" that have been applied.

Not entirely. I see that you are a Loyalist. That means that you've probably never used Clantech in CW. It sucks, big time. The maps are geared towards IS's preferred engagement range (250-600 meters), choke points completely destroy the Clans' mobility advantage, and lets not forget that for every Meta-viable Clan mech, IS has 2-3 Meta-viable mechs of the same weight class.

Edited by Requiemking, 08 September 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[InspectorG]

Summoners were my pimp ride back in my BT days.
Why were they so strong?

Most IS mechs ran half-ish armor.

Crit system was brutal, any hit by any weapon on an open component could maim or remove equips...only took one damage.

If a mech ate twenty damage in one turn, he had to roll for piloting (I think, my memory may be wrong)

The base generic map th box set up a me with was fairly open.

Now, Summoner prime had Erppc, Lbx10, lrm10. Was agile and fast for a heavy, had about full armor.

My older friend always hogged the timbys so I was left with Summoners for some reason...

I figured out to stay out of his range and run 'n gun. You run about and pop 15 point holes with the peep.
Pepper with LRMs looking for a crit or 5+1-3 damage chunks that would rip up lights and most mediums.

The lbx was for landing those crits at 4-7 chances per shot depending on dices.

In close? Alpha and go for 20 damage, Prime was plenty cool, you just needed the piloting and gunnery.

Can't remember the rest, different Summoners did different things. The D with the 2erll was strong at range.
the C with Uac20, SRMS, LPL, was the brawler...I think.

They were strong, which is why I've been salty they are so utterly meh in mwo.

[razenWing]

Mazzyplz, on 07 September 2016 - 10:49 PM, said:

here's an actual video of adam steiner getting pwnt by a summoner

This is slightly off-topic. But how the hell do you tune the heat mode to be this crystal clear? I have my graphics set to max everything, and during heat mode, everything still glows like white blob with no discernible details. But this guy's heat mode is like... super duper clear with foliage details and terrain outline (big thing). How is that possible? (I mean shaz, if I can tune my graphics to do that, I will be running heat a lot more)

Also, why does his AI woman have a cheeky british teenage girl voice? Mine is the boring computer lady. How do I get his?

(Like, are we playing the same game? How come his setup is just so much better?)

[Kubernetes]

Malthus dint run no lurms on his Thor. He had Streak-6 like proper Jade Falcons.

[Suko]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 September 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

might want to compare the actual size of the forces arrayed against each other in operation Serpent and Bulldog.

Also, I think the 3:1 ratio thing referred to IS lvl 1 tech. The force that went to stomp out the Jags were upgraded and mostly used level 2 IS tech. Still not 1:1 w/ Clan, but a marked improvement.

[Metus regem]

Suko, on 08 September 2016 - 09:14 AM, said:

Also, I think the 3:1 ratio thing referred to IS lvl 1 tech. The force that went to stomp out the Jags were upgraded and mostly used level 2 IS tech. Still not 1:1 w/ Clan, but a marked improvement.

Not to mention that in both Bulldog and Serpent, the IS forces fought like IS forces, not Clan forces.... Something Guard quality troops would not be prepared to face.

[Mazzyplz]

razenWing, on 08 September 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

This is slightly off-topic. But how the hell do you tune the heat mode to be this crystal clear? I have my graphics set to max everything, and during heat mode, everything still glows like white blob with no discernible details. But this guy's heat mode is like... super duper clear with foliage details and terrain outline (big thing). How is that possible? (I mean shaz, if I can tune my graphics to do that, I will be running heat a lot more)

Also, why does his AI woman have a cheeky british teenage girl voice? Mine is the boring computer lady. How do I get his?

(Like, are we playing the same game? How come his setup is just so much better?)

that voice is the notification sounds from mechwarrior 2 i believe. you can mod your game to have those sounds, one of the only things if not the only that you can mod in this game without getting banned if i understand correctly. i might look into getting those sounds at some point.

i don't know what you're talking about with the heat vision. mine looks the same i think

[mogs01gt]

two things:
1. most pilots in lore were cannon fodder
2. most of these pilots werent as experienced or well trained as the main characters in lore, this means they were 1.