78 replies to this topic

[FalconerGray]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Yea, I read the lore about how clanners are unstoppable (which, isn't quite true... if it really takes 3 to 1 to overtake clanner advantage, how come Victor dropped a coalition no where near that number and still annihilated the smoke jaguar?)

And regardless of how "advance" someone can be, if you are getting hit by depleted uranium, you are being hit by depleted uranium. doesn't matter if it's being fired from a battlemech or a civil war cannon. Clanners uses FF and XL engines... it's not like they are using blakchole fusion engine with gundam swords. besides, i failed to see how a mx90 can have enough weakness to exploit. I think the lore writers are slightly way over exaggerated on that part.

You should read more BT novels and realize that it's never been about numbers, it's about individual piloting skill.

This is a point that MWO has completely missed for some reason, which I believe is most likely due to the directions they decided to to take gameplay and game modes. It didn't have to be this way, but like many other 'features' of the game, this is what happens when you ignore what has come before and just make it up as you go.

[Dingo Battler]

In the TT, the summoner's jumpjets make it one of the most annoying mechs ever. If you win initiative, just jump behind their backs and shoot them. If you lose initiative, just jump out of LOS. Its stock weapons are long range and powerful. With careful piloting, it can even beat a timberwolf unscathed (timberwolf in the TT is also one of the most powerful mechs)

Also, in the writeup, they mentioned swapping out its arm. Not sure if that's how omnipods work (probably not), but in the lore, clan stuff is very standardised, so it can easily take the arm of another mech temporarily and use it, whereas the IS mechs would probably take a month to repair, due to the diversity of parts.

Another point on omnipods, in lore, it can sit at range, and constantly blast them with long range weaponry, then go back, swap out its omnipods for closer range fighting in less than an hour, go in and fight them, which is a massive advantage. IS reconfigurations take months, hundreds of millions, and sometimes simply cannot be done.

Edited by KBurn85, 07 September 2016 - 03:24 PM.

[FalconerGray]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Maybe there's not really a lot of customization in the lore?

Let's just break this down for a bit - how do you think customization in the BT universe would work? And I don't mean mechlab rules and whatnot, I mean the logistics of it.

Firstly, who are you? Are you a pilot in a house army? A pirate? A merc? Do you control your own destiny, or do you live and fight on the orders of others? Where does your money come from and how much of it do you have? Who owns your battlemech? Do you even have 'a' battlemech, or do you just get whatever you're given at the time?

etc etc etc

MWO is about as basic and dumbed down as things can get and has barely anything tying it to the BT universe....which is a crying shame, because we could have had something truly brilliant.

The closest you can compare what we have to what you would find in the BT universe is Solaris (which is why I laugh / shame my head when people complain about not having Solaris). We are paid extremely well based on our performances in battle, we don't have to contend with diplomacy, real objectives or proper warfare conditions, we have a team of private techs at our disposal....this IS Solaris, it's all we've ever had.

Edited by legatoblues, 07 September 2016 - 04:00 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Nerds.

WTF does Sarna, BT lore, clan "superiority", TT costs of mechs and the difficulty in customizing mechs in that game platform, the relative ability of RL mechanics and techs of as described in BT game or novels, etc, etc, have to do with this game?

Answer: absolutely nothing. I wish it did, but it doesn't. Now go play with your Warhammer with its chest mounted Gauss rifles and one shot a "Thor" then talk to me about how one clan mech should be able to take down a lance of IS mechs in the "lore".

There is no lore in MWO there is only "balance" because all mechs are equal in this "competitive" game right?

[Tavious Grimm]

What made the Omnimech such nightmare for IS pilots was its ability to configured to match the mission parameters. If assaulting an entrenched postion it had heavy weapons, if the mission called for City fighting vs infantry then the load out was considerably different. Plus all Omnimech parts are standardized, meaning no going half way across your realm and possibly to another Great House to get your parts. Most battle damage was repaired quickly unless there was severe internal damage. You could juryrig an IS mech, unless your techs are geniuses then your jury rig would probably explode.

[Dingo Battler]

legatoblues, on 07 September 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

The closest you can compare what we have to what you would find in the BT universe is Solaris (which is why I laugh / shame my head when people complain about not having Solaris). We are paid extremely well based on our performances in battle, we don't have to contend with diplomacy, real objectives or proper warfare conditions, we have a team of private techs at our disposal....this IS Solaris, it's all we've ever had.

If you take the clan side only, we're pretty normal, maybe even under equipped. IIRC, in the fluff, they can fit pod space with anything, as long as you have the tonnage. So you don't have pods divided into ballistic, etc. You don't even have the number of weapons limit

IS side, yeah, I don't think even a merc. band can get equipment so easily, given that pretty much everything is very hard to get legally. IIRC, IS customisation is very expensive, and doesn't work well, due to gyros and internal balance. Almost all IS mechs are run stock due to this, especially for house mechs.

[Tavious Grimm]

To stay nothing of other House militaries running mechs outside their TO&E take Hawkins Mauler for example, a Steiner unit with a Kurita mech, they were paying premium and then some maintaining that mech.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

I serious doubt that the Bushy will be HBS battle tech at the start... HBS battle tech is set in 3025/28... about 28-25 years too early for the Bushy...

They should add it just because its an iconic and really famous mech.

[Requiemking]

The only IS mech at that time that possesses the repair/ refit time of a Clan Omnimech is the Mercury. Sadly, that is never going to make it in game not only because it runs too fast (129 standard, 173 with MASC) but also combines an Omnimech's ability to min-max hardpoints with a Battlemech's ability to swap engines.

Edited by Requiemking, 07 September 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[Metus regem]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 September 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

They should add it just because its an iconic and really famous mech.

That was only saved from the junk bin after taking apart a captured Mad Dog... Something to do with engine shielding and sensor interference....

[El Bandito]

Clanners would try to convince you that it is all skills.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 September 2016 - 06:35 PM.

[GreyNovember]

LordKnightFandragon, on 07 September 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

They should add it just because its an iconic and really famous mech.

... From like, Mechwarrior3, that you replaced QUICKLY once you recovered something heavier?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Like, where have I been all these times?

If anything, shouldn't it be the other way around? A mauler MX90 can probably kill a thor, a bushwacker, and another 65 tonner.

So... either the lore is lying to us about how strong Clanners really are... or someone did f-up the lore when implementing.

(Cause, like... who the hell uses a Thor? It's like one of the rarest find in the game. Lots of Mx90 though.)

PS referring to the Bushwacker lore page btw. (Also, why does the whole passage read like it praises how a Thor, standing out in the open, managed to not die against 3 mechs from concealed position and scared them pants-less, rather than something about the Bushwacker?)

when did we get the axeman?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

dervishx5, on 07 September 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

Hey, it's perfectly plausible that a star of clan mechs can take out 3 regiments of tanks in half a day.

Inner Sphere Organization:
4 Mechs to a Lance (Mechs and Vehicles, rarely mixed)
3 Lances to a Company (assault companies
sometimes have 4)
3 Companies to a Battalion (assault battalions
sometimes have 4)
3-4 Battalions to a Regiment
3 Regiments to a Brigade
3 Brigades to a Division
2-6 Divisions + 8-12 Independent
Regiments to a Corps
2-3 Corps to an Army
2-3 Armies to An Army Group

Clan Organization:
5 Points* to a Star
2 Stars to a Binary
3 Stars to a Trinary
3-5 Binaries/Trinaries to a Cluster
3-6 Clusters to a Galaxy
1 Mech Star + 1 Elemental Star to a Nova
1 Mech Star + 2 Elemental Stars or 2 Mech
Stars + 1 Elemental Star to a
Supernova
2 Novas to a Supernova Binary
3 Novas to a Supernova Trinary

Thats upwards of 300 tanks... in a day... theyre not unvulnerable are they?

[LordKnightFandragon]

GreyNovember, on 07 September 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

... From like, Mechwarrior3, that you replaced QUICKLY once you recovered something heavier?

Metus regem, on 07 September 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

That was only saved from the junk bin after taking apart a captured Mad Dog... Something to do with engine shielding and sensor interference....

YEah, I read that on Sarna. Its actually interesting to read Sarna, alot of amusing stuff.

And yeah Metus, you rapidly replaced it, only because thats the nature of Mechwarrior games, its a race to the top mech.

Not so much in MWO. I also hope its not the case in HBS Battletech.

Something more like the Men of war Dynamic Campaign Generator, which was put together by a random group of guys, would be amazing. Endless replay value there.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 07 September 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[FalconerGray]

El Bandito, on 07 September 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

Clanners would try to convince you that it is all skills.

I know thread this was initially about a specific scenario mentioned in the OP, but what I bring up is more general than that and completely separate to 'Clan vs IS' nonsense.

BT is full stories and legends of elite pilots overcoming adversity and unfavourable odds to emerge triumphant. MWO? Doesn't happen. Of course, it doesn't happen because this game, by design, intentionally doesn't allow for such things - which is a major part of my complaints...why throw away your point of difference, your established history, the potential for a genuinely unique and refreshing gaming experience in favour of just another variation of the same old same?

Edited by legatoblues, 07 September 2016 - 07:15 PM.

[razenWing]

legatoblues, on 07 September 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

I know thread this was initially about a specific scenario mentioned in the OP, but what I bring up is more general than that and completely separate to 'Clan vs IS' nonsense.

BT is full stories and legends of elite pilots overcoming adversity and unfavourable odds to emerge triumphant. MWO? Doesn't happen. Of course, it doesn't happen because this game, by design, intentionally doesn't allow for such things - which is a major part of my complaints...why throw away your point of difference, your established history, the potential for a genuinely unique and refreshing gaming experience in favour of just another variation of the same old same?

Well, I know this is all speculation from video game but... what sets you that different from an "elite" pilot? Cause let's be honest... you have "aces" in air combat because it's a realm of fighting beyond human senses with speed and forces beyond normal comprehension. So yes, skill applies between a poor pilot and a good pilot.

With battlemechs... you have stompy robots fighting on a 2-D plane going slower than modern tanks. They are essentially mobile firing platforms. There's really nothing that's "elite" about one pilot from another. (I suppose if you are a better gunner... but then... would future human not figure out some sorta auto lock-on? They have them right now in the F-35 helmets.)

The more I think about it... there's really nothing "warrior" about being a mechwarrior, and really nothing that should stand out as legendary or elite about any pilots.

Just saying.

[FalconerGray]

razenWing, on 07 September 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

Well, I know this is all speculation from video game but... what sets you that different from an "elite" pilot? Cause let's be honest... you have "aces" in air combat because it's a realm of fighting beyond human senses with speed and forces beyond normal comprehension. So yes, skill applies between a poor pilot and a good pilot.

With battlemechs... you have stompy robots fighting on a 2-D plane going slower than modern tanks. They are essentially mobile firing platforms. There's really nothing that's "elite" about one pilot from another. (I suppose if you are a better gunner... but then... would future human not figure out some sorta auto lock-on? They have them right now in the F-35 helmets.)

The more I think about it... there's really nothing "warrior" about being a mechwarrior, and really nothing that should stand out as legendary or elite about any pilots.

Just saying.

In the world of MWO, you're absolutely correct.

And that's the point entirely.

[Funkin Disher]

Well the Axman doesn't exist, the Bushwacker only has 1 laser and the mauler is a missileboat. Of course the Summoner and its excellent quirks will win.

Edited by Funkin Disher, 07 September 2016 - 08:31 PM.

[l3elthaz0r]

Is Malthus really running a Thor? I've always wondered what the hell that squat fat thing was supposed to be