183 replies to this topic

[Griffin Talon]

Quick play game modes in faction mode? Brilliant, always bothered me that every single time a planet is attacked it's always at some fort, no battles were ever fought somewhere else?? Immersion has been brought up a few times wouldnt this be helping it???

Be nice change and would entice me to start playing FW again.

Main issue for me was that the mechs I like to run in don't do well on current faction maps, adding current game modes means I can bring what I want not what is "best".
Why I like planetside for my main pvp fix dont have to worry about 'correct gear' or any of that crap.

I don't know maybe that's changed recently

Global ECM sounds good, 2 or 3 aerospace fighters fly over and drop non target able ECM pods across the place

I don't really expect the normal game queue to be really that affected by introduction of current modes in faction games that much.

Only real way to see is when it goes live, as much as PTS helps in whatever game trial by fire works best in my opinion for online games like this.

[Hotthedd]

Wintersdark, on 08 September 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

....Because if they have QP maps in faction play with respawns, that'll just destroy the quickplay queue and everything will be crap.

That's exactly the argument you're making; that nobody will play quick play because they're all over playing Faction Play, and solely because Faction Play has the QP maps and modes (though with drop decks). That's just dumb.

Quickplay matches will remain faster - both faster to complete and faster to get. The have a matchmaker. Sure, more will probably play FP as a result, but that's the goal.

Planetary invasion is already a respawn game; adding QP maps doesn't change that. It's still respawn, but now people playing FP can play it on all the maps instead of just a couple. This change is only adding to FP; it isn't hurting QP at all.

Think about it.
If the maps are the same, and the wait time is the same, and the rewards are better, and the only difference is the matchmaker, what is going to happen to single life drops?

They will disappear.

That is the problem I have with it.

[DaynarFaol]

Johnny Z, on 08 September 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

This is why this change they are making sounds good. If its a step to making it work quickly and well first, then building on that with logistics and other details, later, then great.

The issue is that they have had years to even start working on this. Instead with get updates to a UI that is not really user friendly.

When they did the UI update to addk the Paper Doll mech lab they could have started to put in the other styles of UI.

It seems to me, over the last 3 or so years that I have been playing; that they start on one project then shoot off on a tangent when someone goes "OOoo shiny squirrel."

The road maps have shown small increments of change and polishing.

Again I get that they built the game IGP required, but they were talking about AI last year. We got a rough of it in the Academy.

What they should do is roll back to Phase 2 for FW, which was honestly pretty decent, but keep the multi-drop decks.

And FOCUS on the AI project. Build the single player and campaign modes Russ has been hinting at for TWO YEARS.
But the refrain is always the same. "It's in the works, but it isn't a top priority."
Oh look another new Mech Pack.

The core player base. The guys that support this as Founders, those of us that have paid a lot of money or have had amazing friends help them get mechs and the like.

We play this game because we want a good BattleTech/MechWarrior game. We want to have the interactions and story of the Inner Sphere. We want to help shape that.

Not some clone of every other mech FPS out there. And that is what they are turning MWO into. The supply caches are in just about every FPS out there now. This is a death match game with BattleTech skins.

FW/CW pretty much died at the start of Phase 3 because it was spend 30 mins in a match win or lose, pie slice changes hands.

After 6 to 9 months, map reset.

No feeling of completion or accomplishment.
No connection to what makes BattleTech fun.
No real reason to spend time or money on this game beyond a casual interest.

#MWOnolongerBattleTech

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Daynar, on 08 September 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

The issue is that they have had years to even start working on this. Instead with get updates to a UI that is not really user friendly.

When they did the UI update to addk the Paper Doll mech lab they could have started to put in the other styles of UI.

It seems to me, over the last 3 or so years that I have been playing; that they start on one project then shoot off on a tangent when someone goes "OOoo shiny squirrel."

The road maps have shown small increments of change and polishing.

Again I get that they built the game IGP required, but they were talking about AI last year. We got a rough of it in the Academy.

What they should do is roll back to Phase 2 for FW, which was honestly pretty decent, but keep the multi-drop decks.

And FOCUS on the AI project. Build the single player and campaign modes Russ has been hinting at for TWO YEARS.
But the refrain is always the same. "It's in the works, but it isn't a top priority."
Oh look another new Mech Pack.

The core player base. The guys that support this as Founders, those of us that have paid a lot of money or have had amazing friends help them get mechs and the like.

We play this game because we want a good BattleTech/MechWarrior game. We want to have the interactions and story of the Inner Sphere. We want to help shape that.

Not some clone of every other mech FPS out there. And that is what they are turning MWO into. The supply caches are in just about every FPS out there now. This is a death match game with BattleTech skins.

FW/CW pretty much died at the start of Phase 3 because it was spend 30 mins in a match win or lose, pie slice changes hands.

After 6 to 9 months, map reset.

No feeling of completion or accomplishment.
No connection to what makes BattleTech fun.
No real reason to spend time or money on this game beyond a casual interest.

#MWOnolongerBattleTech

Minimal viable fun

[50 50]

Thanks for putting up the link for the meeting Bloodwolf.
Didn't want to comment before listening to it but I have now read enough in this post to get a general idea of what is planned.

The idea that there will be a 'combined mode' where the quick play maps and modes get added to faction play I find quite exciting. To me, this instantly multiplies the options in faction play and will make it the preferred mode. While I personally like the idea of an open warfare mode, this sounds close and interesting.
Invasion by itself was so limited, so this sounds like a positive step that can be achieved in a short space of time.

That PGI has taken some feedback from the round table, worked them through, tried to get them working shows that they are trying to meet our unreasonable demands for the 'ultimate game'. I like that there is change, we are the ones who get to have fun playing the game.

No alliances... oh well... maybe this could be something at the unit level instead of at faction level.
Reduction in factions... meh... there is nothing stopping us sporting the colours, camo and decals and proudly declaring ourselves belonging to a faction. In the end we still join our faction from the sounds of it but are just pooled together as Clan or IS.
Drop decks.... I reckon there is a lot of potential in the drop decks. As a control for how many mechs and what tonnage we can take to battle, there is more functionality that can be added directly to the drop decks and some unseen potential there.

I am looking forward to reading about the suggestions in more detail.

[smokefield]

Quote

Admittedly, there is great difficulty in knowing which voices to listen to

from my experience you can't unless you give it time and stay in touch. you need, as developer, to stay in touch with the people and get to know those who are with you for long time,those who stay with you no matter what , those who are willing to help you and those who are doing stuff for you for free, and use them and what they are offering to improve your product. but that means you need to invest a lot of time and a lot of PR in it. and pgi sucks at it

[xengk]

QP mode get added to FP, and utilize Deck Respawn. I am ok with that.
QP become "FP Lite" or "Instant Action", for those who do not have 4 ready mechs or want a shorter play session.

I think Russ mention there will be mode progression in FP to simulate an invasion?
This will increase FP immersion for me, as it will feel more like a campaign.
Skirmish (hot drop to establish foothold) -> Conquest (capture strategic point) -> Domination (disable comsat) -> Assault (disable forward base) -> Attack/Defend (take out final objective)

Not so sure on merging all Faction into just IS vs Clan.
Weekend event will be House vs House, Clan vs Clan.

Didn't caught anything on Dropship mode and Base Assault mode though, or did I miss it.

Edited by xengk, 08 September 2016 - 09:04 PM.

[xengk]

smokefield, on 08 September 2016 - 08:28 PM, said:

from my experience you can't unless you give it time and stay in touch. you need, as developer, to stay in touch with the people and get to know those who are with you for long time,those who stay with you no matter what , those who are willing to help you and those who are doing stuff for you for free, and use them and what they are offering to improve your product. but that means you need to invest a lot of time and a lot of PR in it. and pgi sucks at it

from my experience, you will still piss off the player base who disagree with those loyal people.
worst, they think the dev is playing favourites and pandering to white knight.

[Wintersdark]

Rampage, on 08 September 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

And instead of being locked into one boring, repetitive, bottlenecked, Faction Play game mode, you will instead play a series of game modes on a variety of maps that will more closely follow the various steps necessary to capture a planet. Scout, invade, deny enemy access to resources, capture key strategic locations and assets, eliminate opposition and capture or destroy enemy territory and strongholds. If anything these changes should greatly IMPROVE immersion with or without Drop Deck re-spawn.

Incorporating game assets that have already been developed in game for Quick Play to improve Faction Play with very little additional development cost or time makes perfect sense.

Exactly! This is only adding to faction play. As things stand, endlessly playing Invasion/Counter Attack (which is essentially the same thing) is EXTREMELY repetitive.

Adding dropship respawns to the QP modes in FP just helps preserve the identity of FP and keep it differentiated. QP is still a "quick one and done" match, with matchmaking and such, in and out in about 10 minutes including matchmaking normally. FP is longer purposeful battles, but with even more variety (we'll have scouting bonuses in the QP style matches as well as drop decks) and longer battles. I expect at LEAST 20 minute timers, probably the full 30. And while the bukkit changes should shorten match building times (I'm not certain of how these changes work, so I can't really speak to them in detail) so we're not stuck standing around for 30 minutes hoping for a match, it's still not going to be as quick and easy as a QP match.

Does this draw players from QP? I very much hope so. It wont draw enough to damage the QP experience of course, but even if MM got a bit worse as a result I'd call that a win for having FP that wasn't total trash.

Playing one game mode over and over again is insanely boring.

---

I totally get people being upset about "too little, too late" but imho that's not even an argument worth making. If that's your position there's nothing PGI is going to be able to do to fix it we'll never see massive reaching changes that "change everything!" and everyone should know that by now.

I don't know enough about the bucket changes, as I said, to really comment there outside of "There was zero chance we'd ever be able to have 9 fully independent factions work." Ever. They shouldn't have even tried, it was obvious and stupid from day one. Even major three faction games struggle hard with maintaining populations, MWO has precious few folks, dividing them into so many buckets from the start was dumb, no matter how much it felt like that was the way we should go. I'm sure the changes will reduce faction identity to being more of a label, but it was unavoidable. Should have started that way.

[Wintersdark]

xengk, on 08 September 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

Not so sure on merging all Faction into just IS vs Clan.
Weekend event will be House vs House, Clan vs Clan.

Didn't caught anything on Dropship mode and Base Assault mode though, or did I miss it.

No "dropship mode"; you just get drop decks for the quick play game modes in FP. Also, base assault = the new assault game mode, which will be in both QP and FP.

You still belong to individual factions, but those factions win or lose together based on their aggregate performance - either all the clan attacks win, or all the is attacks win.

[Wintersdark]

Hotthedd, on 08 September 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Think about it.
If the maps are the same, and the wait time is the same, and the rewards are better, and the only difference is the matchmaker, what is going to happen to single life drops?

They will disappear.

That is the problem I have with it.

The wait time won't be the same; it just won't be half hour+ waits.

FP match length will be longer.

Lack of MM means most players, who aren't that good, are going to get seal-clubbed repeatedly and thus earn less per match than they do in the MM supported QP. That's not theory, I've seen it enough first hand. People queueing up for FP, playing a half hour match, and earning what I earn in a single QP match because having 4 mechs just meant they got clubbed 4 times in a row instead of one.

So, no, your logic has some critical flaws.

I can see more experienced players going to FP, but the random players? Not really. This means the rank and file Mechwarriors suddenly perform better in QP, having fewer really dangerous players to stomp them down, and they earn more. Or they can go to FP and spend more time in a match getting omgwtfpwned by 12 man death squads.

It's not just "hah lol no matchmaker". It's QP with unrestricted groups vs solos and all that stuff too.

It's still not going to be very appealing to random solos, and they are the bulk of the games population.

If you lose terribly all the time, FP is definitely not going to pay better.

None of this is theorizing. We've seen it all in play in FP right now, during the big events, in MWO before the group queue and (going further back) what it was like before there was a matchmaker.

FP is definitely not going to claim everyone.

But you know what? If somehow im totally wrong, and FP is so good that everyone who plays QP now (and it would have to be a massive majority of them) 100% drop QP for FP? That means the game has taken a huge stride forward. See, if I'm wrong, it's because the game has become a lot MORE fun. (It won't be that good, but that's the alternative).

How terrible!

But yeah, your logic is deeply, deeply flawed. The vast bulk of players aren't going to earn more in FP, they're going to earn a lot less.

[CwStrife]

The bottom line is that if PGI had done what they said they were going to in the first place and actually took what the community said to heart they wouldn't be in the situation they are in now. Alot of people have plain dumped the game completely. I personally know about 30 people who logged off after Phase 3 and haven't come back. I'm sure they won't come back either. The player base has dwindled alot recently.

From what we have to go by which is only the steam charts there are usually 1000 active players on, sometimes under 1000. Granted alot of us don't use the steam client but there are maybe a couple hundred of us hardcore people left that don't use it. So lets just say 1500 on at any given time tops, and somehow I think even that is crap because I always drop against the same people in QP. Granted i'm Tier 2 so I won't really see the newbs that often.

But in any case PGI has just done what they wanted to and when things like the Long Tom were introduced into CW along with the rest of the Phase 3 nonsense PGI just continued to try and do whatever they wanted to, while the community was screaming on here or e-mailing them. Not once has Russ said Long Tom was a bad idea and they are going to get rid of it. Which goes to show how stubborn the man is... just to not be able to admit hey we messed up, we're going to get rid of it and listen to you guys in the community.

The new maps, or the reworked maps I should say; they are a complete disaster. Most of the old ones were better. Why didn't they have both the old version and the new version in the lineup... it would make things a little bit more interesting. But mostly who designs these terrible maps, and who signs off on them? I mean jesus lord.

But hey, wanna buy another mech pack?

[xengk]

Wintersdark, on 08 September 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

No "dropship mode"; you just get drop decks for the quick play game modes in FP. Also, base assault = the new assault game mode, which will be in both QP and FP.

You still belong to individual factions, but those factions win or lose together based on their aggregate performance - either all the clan attacks win, or all the is attacks win.

I understand "base assault" and "new assault" is the same thing, just want to hear more detail about that mode.
How much of a fortification does the base have; generators, turrets, destructible walls, ECM tower, radar tower, capture or destroy the base, that sort of thing.
IIRC Dropship mode was suppose to be asymmetric game mode; 4 mechs + Overlord vs 12 mechs. (protect the dropship until times up or destroy the dropship)

Yeah, I just not sure how to feel about full IS vs Clan all the time.
I enjoyed Tukayyid event, this extend it from 1 planet to the whole battlefront.
Although I join a mercs unit, deep down I am still a Liao Loyalist.

[Wintersdark]

Well, back in the day Dropship Mode was a planned game mode. There's no Dropship Mode now. However, when playing the normal QP game modes in FP, you'll have your drop deck of 4 mechs exactly as per invasion.

I'm interested to see how modes like Conquest and Domination play out with the 4 mechs each.



The new assault mode, well Russ talked about it a fair bit, but that was a town hall ago, or maybe two, so I'd take anything said there with a hefty dose of salt:stuff is pretty much guaranteed to change as problems arise in testing.

I'm pretty eager for that too, but im not getti my hopes up. Making a game mode like that is not an easy design task.

[Hotthedd]

Wintersdark, on 08 September 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

The wait time won't be the same; it just won't be half hour+ waits.

FP match length will be longer.

Lack of MM means most players, who aren't that good, are going to get seal-clubbed repeatedly and thus earn less per match than they do in the MM supported QP. That's not theory, I've seen it enough first hand. People queueing up for FP, playing a half hour match, and earning what I earn in a single QP match because having 4 mechs just meant they got clubbed 4 times in a row instead of one.

So, no, your logic has some critical flaws.

I can see more experienced players going to FP, but the random players? Not really. This means the rank and file Mechwarriors suddenly perform better in QP, having fewer really dangerous players to stomp them down, and they earn more. Or they can go to FP and spend more time in a match getting omgwtfpwned by 12 man death squads.

It's not just "hah lol no matchmaker". It's QP with unrestricted groups vs solos and all that stuff too.

It's still not going to be very appealing to random solos, and they are the bulk of the games population.

If you lose terribly all the time, FP is definitely not going to pay better.

None of this is theorizing. We've seen it all in play in FP right now, during the big events, in MWO before the group queue and (going further back) what it was like before there was a matchmaker.

FP is definitely not going to claim everyone.

But you know what? If somehow im totally wrong, and FP is so good that everyone who plays QP now (and it would have to be a massive majority of them) 100% drop QP for FP? That means the game has taken a huge stride forward. See, if I'm wrong, it's because the game has become a lot MORE fun. (It won't be that good, but that's the alternative).

How terrible!

But yeah, your logic is deeply, deeply flawed. The vast bulk of players aren't going to earn more in FP, they're going to earn a lot less.

My logic is as sound as yours, we are operating from two different premises.

You believe that QP will still have faster queues and the rewards will not be better. I disagree.

Even new players in FP get more rewards than in a QP match unless they are really bad. The reason? Score and rewards are based on damage done. With 4 times the mechs and 4 times the targets, more damage is done, and more C-bills and XP are earned.

FP will be 4 v 4 (scouting) or 48 v 48 (everything else). I see no good reason to not integrate the 12 v 12 matches into FP. Making it 48 v 48 will drive away the players who do not want re-spawns, but would otherwise like to participate in meaningful matches. (like me).

[Mudhutwarrior]

I welcome the changes as I never could get into the team thing. Just dislike fraternity's like this game as it breeds groupthink.

Being able to QP in will reduce the smell and encourage casuals into CW

[Davers]

I don't understand the worry about QP. The lack of MM or premade/pug split will drive all the casuals out of FP, just like before. QP will be quite populated you can be sure.

[Hotthedd]

Davers, on 09 September 2016 - 04:44 AM, said:

I don't understand the worry about QP. The lack of MM or premade/pug split will drive all the casuals out of FP, just like before. QP will be quite populated you can be sure.

You may be right and I may be wrong, but I see a distinction between "casuals", who, from my conversations, avoid FP because of the long wait times, and "the underhive" who avoid FP because of the lack of a split queue and match maker.
So, QP will still be populated by the underhive, and those who do not like re-spawns. I consider myself the latter (but perhaps I am both), either way that prospect is unappealing.
The re-spawn crowd won. Congratulations. Be a gracious winner.

[Davers]

Hotthedd, on 09 September 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

You may be right and I may be wrong, but I see a distinction between "casuals", who, from my conversations, avoid FP because of the long wait times, and "the underhive" who avoid FP because of the lack of a split queue and match maker.
So, QP will still be populated by the underhive, and those who do not like re-spawns. I consider myself the latter (but perhaps I am both), either way that prospect is unappealing.
The re-spawn crowd won. Congratulations. Be a gracious winner.

While I hate making CW purely Clan vs IS, I am curious how Conquest will play out. But PGI will probably require 5x the points so it will still be pointless to cap.

[FrozenAnt]

I consider myself a casual player. QP is doing great. I got back into the game for about 3 months and lived in quick play. It was a nice slow down from the fast paced Overwatch.

The few times I tried to play faction play I didn't do it because I found myself waiting for 10 or so minutes. I did scouting though. I love that mode. I really don't care what it effects but I am 55 and below pilot. Brawling with mechs my weight class is so much fun. I don't have to worry about getting 1 shot by an assault, I can actually twist damage before something gets blown off.

My concern for this whole thing is at the end of the day someone has to pay the bills. I don't see people dropping $20+ on this shallow of a game mode. Yes I said shallow. I am not belittling the game at all. I have fun in QP, but why on earth would someone pay that much money for something, when there are options out there that offer something similar?

I'm in the 25-35 age bracket, so i do enjoy the slow down. I have a job and have decent money to throw at games, but must be selective with my time. The 18-25 age bracket have time, but not enough money and many more FPS options, Doom, Overwatch, CoD, CSGO, Those are already well established in the E-sports scene and have more money involved than MWO ever will. That age bracket doesn't necessarily enjoy the slowdown as much as I do

I guess my main point is if you take away faction play and faction identities for those 30+ year old people who spend money on the game because of battle tech... Who is going to fund the game?