108 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

Kotzi, on 09 September 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

Ye, of course Cryengine is for free even for commercial stuff and Crytek will not charge anything if their employees work for you. And PGI will not mind to get the most expensive Engine and pay a lot for support just to give you your best gaming experience.

Are you 12 or something? Your argumentation completely lacks any understanding of how business work....

Edited by TexAce, 09 September 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[Tamwulf]

If anything, moving to a new engine would get rid of a lot of "Bloat Code" inherent in an older piece of software that is constantly being patched.

Then there is the cost involved. The Unity engine or any other engine they would switch to would cost money. Developer's don't use the "Free Trial Version" of software for anything. They buy the rights to use the software and the warranty and support that comes with it.

Finally, there is the actual coding: PGI is familiar with and knows the Cryengine software. Converting over to a different piece of software requires training and possibly hiring new coders.

[Lostdragon]

Switching engines is a major decision. PGI has said they are seriously considering it hecause there would be a lot of benefits so I would be surprised if they don't start working on it within the next year. Sometimes it makes good business sense to throw in the towel on a core system that is causing roadblocks to progress and invest the time, money, and resources into a new system that clears out thise roadblocks and allows you to move forward. I have done many projects like this for businesses and they are usually well worth the effort and expense.

Spinning up a new engine would breathe life into the game and generate a lot of free press. It may get some folks who left to come back and take another look at the game and it will surely attract some new players that may be easier to convert if the game is improved. It may slow down development for a time, but that seems to be moving at a snail's pqce as is so I don't thinknit will matter. It won't impact the ability to sell mech packs so I doubt it will result in any lost revenue.

[Troutmonkey]

Tamwulf, on 09 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

Finally, there is the actual coding: PGI is familiar with and knows the Cryengine software. Converting over to a different piece of software requires training and possibly hiring new coders.

From what I understand PGI is using a heavily modded version of CryEngine 3 which is incompatible with CryEngine 5 and would need to be completely re-written. Finding experienced Unreal devs or training them is a lot easier than finding CryEngine devs. Both now support C++. The only reason to stick with CryEngine is if the rev-share/licensing deals with Unreal would somehow be too expensive. In my mind that doesn't seem likely because any money lost their would easily be made up for in dev time gained due to how much quicker and easier Unreal is to deal with. Personally I use Unity and code with C#, because C++ is just a headache. I wouldn't recommend it for a project like this though

Edited by Troutmonkey, 09 September 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Adridos]

Troutmonkey, on 09 September 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Sure CryTek can make it do all these amazing feats, but for mere mortals it's much more difficult.

Meanwhile at the MW:LL station. Or whatever the name of that WoT set in modern times made by Obsidian (the Fallout people) is called. Or Monster Hunter Online made by Chinese fueled by noodle soup. All that without millions in funding Star Citizen or Crysis has.

I won't say PGI is absolutely incompetent lot because I can't possibly know for sure and they've had their fair share of hurdles to fight with the engine implementation like the missing networking code, but they've had their fair share of very bad decisions as well. MW:O's state is relatively minimally influenced by the choice of the engine.


Also, guys. This game took about 3 years to make, give or take. They can either port while somehow retaining most of their code base to save time, but that would end up having no real noticeable effect at all and take a few months.
Or they could rewrite the entire game while saving the bare minimum that works well... but that would take the team at least a full year of effort at the least while working inhumane hours.
The ship of perpetual Cryengine development has sailed long ago and the one of switching over to Unreal has never existed beyond the stories of an old drunkard in the port's pub.

[El Bandito]

Zibmo, on 09 September 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

I love these kinds of comments - "spaghetti code", "bad devs" and so on. I work in the industry and most of the people I have met are very competent (even brilliant) developers. Doing large projects, like this one, takes a lot more than coding skill.

Of course, the forum has many, many more expert coders, such as yourself, that PGI could rely on to help them improve things.

Actually, I know how to code, and unlike you, I applied for a job position for the company before.
PGI didn't respond. And I can tell you right now, that I can be better balance designer in MWO than Paul ever could.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 September 2016 - 08:07 AM.

[Peter2k]

TexAce, on 09 September 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

Are you 12 or something? Your argumentation completely lacks any understanding of how business work....

Chuckles

I think you're sarcasm detector broke when he posted that

Tamwulf, on 09 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

If anything, moving to a new engine would get rid of a lot of "Bloat Code" inherent in an older piece of software that is constantly being patched.

Then there is the cost involved. The Unity engine or any other engine they would switch to would cost money. Developer's don't use the "Free Trial Version" of software for anything. They buy the rights to use the software and the warranty and support that comes with it.

Finally, there is the actual coding: PGI is familiar with and knows the Cryengine software. Converting over to a different piece of software requires training and possibly hiring new coders.

Actually Unreal engine 4 doesn't cost really money upfront
A quick Google of a few seconds reveals Epic switched to a royalties based system

I'm a bit too occupied to Google another few seconds, but I'm sure CryTech can't afford not to do the same
Unreal Engine is already like every there anyway
And unity

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Troutmonkey, on 08 September 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

If PGI know anything at all

yeah... bout that

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Would the game just come out with a new update or would it have to be rebuilt? Whats the process for making it on a new engine? Cause Two problems I could see, one I doubt this game would survive and lengthy downtime if they had to shut it down and rebuild, as that one final fantasy online game did a while back and two, would the actual development of THIS version of the game have to stop to accomidate all the time the devs would have to task to working on the new version, or is it feasible they could work on both at once?

And remember, Im asking this of PGI. Is PGI capable of this do you think, not "the typical dev house"

[Metus regem]

With the recent moves by PGI, I have concerns that PGI may have lost confidence and or interest in MWO, and are currently shifting resources elsewhere. If this is true, than it does not bode well for MWO in the long terms... when it does go dark, I will miss these boards.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Ok. 1 I don't like it when ppl assume a company is moving their resources elsewhere. That to me is a big stab in the back. If this is so and if this is so evident then please enlighten us all by some hard facts not pure assumptions. If this is true I highly doubt they'd be pumping the so called mech packs left right and centre to generate income etc. If making mech packs to generate income to use the resources gained from that said income on something else would be... what exactly... what else is PGI SUPPOSEDLY working on? News? Leaks? Grape vine gossip?...... no? So STAHPPPP IT. JESUS!

2. I don't know much about coding etc or how easier it would for engine upgrades to unreal or a better cryengine All i know is i play armored warfare when I need my PVE FIX. And let me tell you. I run that game on ultra on 2560*1080p. And i never drop from 60fps. I got vsync on cos i get a bit ocd when I see fps numbers going all over the place.
So. Cryengine is capable of handling it as ppl have said previously. What does armored warfare have? Well a myriad of stuff mwo doesn't. Destructible buildings and trees and cars and trucks and retaining walls etc. Some buildings are solid as you might expect BUT the added destruction from the other areas of the game are excellent. In pve dead tanks remain in game. As far I as known i haven't seen them fade out. I constantly use them as cover.
Rain and snow effects are great. Water effects great. Forest levels. Dessert levels. Night time levels you name it. The pve mode is just so easily done in that game. Either destroy the enemy. Protect certain zones. Capture certain zones etc etc. MWO NEEDS THAT PVE. And how ARMORED WARFARE does it will fit into MWO perfectly.
Yes it's repetitive. But at least you can earn cbills and not have a worry of what build of mech you bring. Obviously a mixed build will be best. Running out of ammo would sucks immensely in pve.

That being said. I believe if PGI can utilize cryengine much better we would all have a better game. I have also played the pvp side of armored warfare. And there is no such thing as fps drops or anything.
Some of you are gonna go LOGS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I don't need to. You all have to download the game and try it as it is a f2p title. Same concept as mwo. You buy premium tanks with real money. While premium tanks are much better somewhat they aren't God mode.
Have a good go. I know alot of you are like meh. I want a mech game not a tank game. But have a go. And see the difference in graphical performance in cryengine to armored warfare to mwo. I can assure you there's a big difference in fps and how the game looks.

Edited by Robot Kenshiro, 09 September 2016 - 08:18 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Metus regem, on 09 September 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

With the recent moves by PGI, I have concerns that PGI may have lost confidence and or interest in MWO, and are currently shifting resources elsewhere. If this is true, than it does not bode well for MWO in the long terms... when it does go dark, I will miss these boards.

transverse 2?

Robot Kenshiro, on 09 September 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

That to me is a big stab in the back.

Then the score is still

us 1

them: 25 or so

[Metus regem]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 September 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

transverse 2?



Then the score is still

us 1

them: 25 or so

I don't know, but I just have a feeling on it... mostly after the announcement of no more development being put into Faction play and Quick Play .... On top of the Bushwacker pack seeming like less effort being put into it, in the form of no modules, just a pair of decals...

As it stands right now, all Mech Packs seem to fund is more mech packs, very little actual development... hell there are still bugs from launch crawling around in the system, not to mention some of the easy .XML adjustments that do not get dealt with for years.... all of these things leaves me with the impression they just don't care about MWO.

[Appogee]

MrVei, on 08 September 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

PGI wants to move this game to the new cryengine but they are holding back since they feel too many of the players have systems that do not work on dx11.

I'm still waiting for someone to show any evidence that PGI said either of these things.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Metus regem, on 09 September 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I don't know, but I just have a feeling on it... mostly after the announcement of no more development being put into Faction play and Quick Play .... On top of the Bushwacker pack seeming like less effort being put into it, in the form of no modules, just a pair of decals...

As it stands right now, all Mech Packs seem to fund is more mech packs, very little actual development... hell there are still bugs from launch crawling around in the system, not to mention some of the easy .XML adjustments that do not get dealt with for years.... all of these things leaves me with the impression they just don't care about MWO.

maybe they ARE working on the new engine... Seems to me for a ddev team this small they wouldnt be able to do much evolving on this version if it was going to be replaced with a newer version with a new engine

Appogee, on 09 September 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

I'm still waiting for someone to show any evidence that PGI said either of these things.

yar, links plz

[Imperius]

Feb and march town halls Russ brought up changing engines. The reason we have cryengine tumors 3 was to keep laptop users happy.

Unreal Engine 4 (super easy to use)
CryEngine 5 (Your on your own they went out of business basically and sold CryEngine to Amazon now code named lumberjack)

[Mystere]

TexAce, on 09 September 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

Basically everything server-related (complete hitreg code and other net code) was hacked together by PGI onto a non-released beta version of the cryengine 3. They never had any crytek guys looking over their code, they had no support whatsoever.

MWO practically looks like this under the hood


The bottom car being thier CryEngine 3 and the top being their hitreg/server-auth-code.

If PGI would upgrade to CryEngine 5, all that stuff would not be necessary anymore, most heavy lifting would be done by Crytek engineers, most bandaids would not be needed, it wouldnt be a hassle to get Inverse Kinematics and PSR to work with each other. Features which are currently a no-go because implementing it would be a hassle, would be much easier.

Get it now?

Ahem! CryEngine 5 will not magically replace all the custom code PGI developed. Heck, a whole lot of stuff might even need to be rewritten depending on how tightly coupled all that custom code and the rest of MWO are to each another.

People seem to be seriously underestimating the cost and effort required.

[Alteran]

Mystere, on 09 September 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Ahem! CryEngine 5 will not magically replace all the custom code PGI developed. Heck, a whole lot of stuff might even need to be rewritten depending on how tightly coupled all that custom code and the rest of MWO are to each another.

People seem to be seriously underestimating the cost and effort required.

Wanna buy a Mech Pack^TM to finance it?

[Mystere]

Lostdragon, on 09 September 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

Spinning up a new engine would breathe life into the game and generate a lot of free press. It may get some folks who left to come back and take another look at the game and it will surely attract some new players that may be easier to convert if the game is improved. It may slow down development for a time, but that seems to be moving at a snail's pqce as is so I don't thinknit will matter. It won't impact the ability to sell mech packs so I doubt it will result in any lost revenue.

Why would people who left for game play reasons suddenly come back because of a new shiny ... ahem I meant ... engine?

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

MrVei, on 08 September 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

PGI wants to move this game to the new cryengine but they are holding back since they feel too many of the players have systems that do not work on dx11. we need to ban together and show our support for the move to a newer engine, how many people here are on a system that can not run dx11?? a new engine would open new doors in this game and add new life to it. how do you all feel??

I'd have to verify, but I'm running a fairly old rig... And MechWarrior runs beautifully, although its via a HD 5770.