26 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

No, it's not about PGI's willingness to work. They're already working. Russ is going to keep his engineers engineering all the time, because he's paying them all the time.

It's about what other tasks they want to delay in order to do that. Every single thing they do comes at the cost of something else; those UI engineers are working on projects all the time. So, every new thing you add necessarily has to come at the cost of delays elsewhere.

Thus, they have to consider the cost:benefit ratio for every single thing they do. In this case, it's a fair bit of cost, because it's NOT just adjusting a "MAX_WEAPONS_ALLOWED" constant somewhere. And like I said, it comes with the hazard of causing far reaching bugs that may or may not be readily apparent, which adds additional devhours in bug fixing. See: Comment about how arm actuator changes broke AC's above. Suddenly the not-small change costs many more hours for the engineers, QA, etc; and imagine the s$#tstorm if a change like that broke the game for people in live.

Well, that's just work. Yes it will cost time from projects elsewhere, yes it will have some bugs, that is just normal.

I know where you are getting with this: It's a lot of work for such a little improvement.

Not that i am trying to diss you or anything, but maybe you should let PGI speak for themselves if they would want to work with this or not. In the end, they're the one who are going to choose whether they would do this or not.

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

Would I like it? Sure, I would. Do I need it? No; even as a lover of troll builds(I have a 12 flamer/4MG Nova built right now!) and hardcore DWF pilot (getting close to a thousand matches in DWF's), no I don't need it.

Yes well, to be fair, playing this game, or any other isn't that necessary of our lives. We have option to play other games, we just chose this one.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 September 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[Wintersdark]

The6thMessenger, on 10 September 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Well, that's just work. Yes it will cost time from projects elsewhere, yes it will have some bugs, that is just normal.

Sure, so you (well, Russ) needs to ask himself, "Is this worth delaying the CW updates by that much more, maybe pushing that back another patch?" or whatever else is on the table. The answer, of course, will be "No" so it'll get shuffled after that on the schedule, then compared with whatever is next, and so on.

Triage, basically. It's gonna fall real far down the priority list.

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Yes well, to be fair, playing this game, or any other isn't that necessary of our lives. We have option to play other games, we just chose this one.

Of course, but I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant. Even in the context of the game, where you're defining "need" as "very important for the game", this doesn't come even close.

There just aren't many (any?) actually viable builds that are blocked by a 16 weapon limitation.

Like I said, I'd like it, but it has absolutely zero chance of happening until such a time as they're rebuilding the GUI and HUD. Basically, an engine upgrade - not that this would require an engine upgrade, but rather that it would make sense to code things differently for Today's Mechwarrior Online, rather than 2012's Mechwarrior Online.

Of course, PGI isn't known for that either.

Really, it's just not going to happen. Sorry for the rain on your parade; like I said, I'd like it too. But it's really not going to happen.

[The6thMessenger]

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

Sure, so you (well, Russ) needs to ask himself, "Is this worth delaying the CW updates by that much more, maybe pushing that back another patch?" or whatever else is on the table. The answer, of course, will be "No" so it'll get shuffled after that on the schedule, then compared with whatever is next, and so on.

Triage, basically. It's gonna fall real far down the priority list.


Of course, but I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant. Even in the context of the game, where you're defining "need" as "very important for the game", this doesn't come even close.

There just aren't many (any?) actually viable builds that are blocked by a 16 weapon limitation.

Like I said, I'd like it, but it has absolutely zero chance of happening until such a time as they're rebuilding the GUI and HUD. Basically, an engine upgrade - not that this would require an engine upgrade, but rather that it would make sense to code things differently for Today's Mechwarrior Online, rather than 2012's Mechwarrior Online.

Of course, PGI isn't known for that either.

Really, it's just not going to happen. Sorry for the rain on your parade; like I said, I'd like it too. But it's really not going to happen.

Not that i am trying to diss you or anything, but maybe you should let PGI speak for themselves if they would want to work with this or not. In the end, they're the one who are going to choose whether they would do this or not. As you described them, they are not above putting useless things in the game, like the hand actuators.

IIRC Phoenix Mechs being no longer available is what the Playerbase wanted right? What if a lot of other players would want this? Would that prompt the change?

To be fair "I need it" is different than "the game needs it". So if you meant that if it's necessary to the game, than necessary to you, "I" is not the right word, it confused me.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 September 2016 - 04:58 PM.

[Wintersdark]

The6thMessenger, on 10 September 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Not that i am trying to diss you or anything, but maybe you should let PGI speak for themselves if they would want to work with this or not. In the end, they're the one who are going to choose whether they would do this or not. As you described them, they are not above putting useless things in the game, like the hand actuators.

I'm not speaking for them, I'm just saying what they'd say (as they're obviously not going to respond here; they pretty much never do). What I am doing is telling you - and with absolute certainty - how PGI will look at it. I can say that with 4 years of experience with them, and more so as a "white knight" who actually stands up for them more often than not. Russ (and other PGI staff) have talked about this a lot in the past, just how they decide what to do and when, and it follows the process I've outlined above. They're clearly not bound by what I say, but this isn't guesswork, it's based on many years of experience with how they operate and like I said, with how they've describe the process themselves.

The arm actuators were not a trivial thing. They actually impact gameplay significantly for all the affected mechs, not just enabling a couple very edge mostly troll builds. PGI is going to be way, way less interested in spending the devtime to do the later.

Quote

IIRC Phoenix Mechs being no longer available is what the Playerbase wanted right? What if a lot of other players would want this? Would that prompt the change?

Wut? The phoenix pack can still be purchased, though I don't think you can get the special geometry ones anymore, but I don't understand how this is related at all? If you mean the special geometry ones, it's because they advertised them as a limited time offer that (and I quote) "would never be offered again". They asked the community about it later, and a large number objected to them being sold again because of that.

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 September 2016 - 04:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Double checked, as I'd forgotten the details of the arm actuator thing.

What they did was add AC2's to Ghost Heat, and when they did it it disabled lower arm actuators on Clan mechs. This resulted in Clan mechs being unable to move their arms horizontally, which is a pretty significant bug.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4146044

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 September 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'm not speaking for them, I'm just saying what they'd say (as they're obviously not going to respond here; they pretty much never do).

What I am doing is telling you - and with absolute certainty - how PGI will look at it. I can say that with 4 years of experience with them, and more so as a "white knight" who actually stands up for them more often than not. Russ (and other PGI staff) have talked about this a lot in the past, just how they decide what to do and when, and it follows the process I've outlined above.

Well, sorry, for the previous posts you seem to be speaking for them. I mean, you're not part of the dev team, and it's not like they are incapable of changing in the duration of 4 years, or even the future. They are their own people. Ultimately, that's your opinion of them, it only happens to be quite educated based on your experience of them, but in the end it's not theirs. And while i respect your experience in the matter, it does seem to be quite audacious for your part.

All you're doing is shutting the discussion down. Not that no discussion is above from being shut down, no. But it's rather frustrating that you wouldn't even entertain the idea as you seem to ride on a high-horse for doing so.

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

The arm actuators were not a trivial thing. They actually impact gameplay significantly for all the affected mechs, not just enabling a couple very edge mostly troll builds. PGI is going to be way, way less interested in spending the devtime to do the later.

"Hand actuators" not arm actuators.

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

Wut? The phoenix pack can still be purchased, though I don't think you can get the special geometry ones anymore, but I don't understand how this is related at all? If you mean the special geometry ones, it's because they advertised them as a limited time offer that (and I quote) "would never be offered again". They asked the community about it later, and a large number objected to them being sold again because of that.

The point is that, the player base can influence the decision of PGI. Perhaps if lots of players asked for this, well IF, they can be prompted to do so.

[DrxAbstract]

Wintersdark, on 10 September 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

If only there was a mech that could pack 17 MG's in the first place =)

Well you could put an XL360 on a fully armored KGC with a couple SRM4s and MPlas and carry a Piranha on either arm - that's 24 Mguns for 100 total tons...