70 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Koniving, on 28 September 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

• "Rising Mech-Heat threshold".... something that has never existed in any Mechwarrior or Battletech game in the nearly 40 year history of the franchise.

What exactly are you referring to as a "Rising Mech-Heat threshold"?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

What exactly are you referring to as a "Rising Mech-Heat threshold"?

Most likely that the addition of heat sinks increases the heat capacity of mechs, instead of being a fixed value.

[VATER]

Khalcruth, on 28 September 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

I can't think of something I would like more.



Oh, that is completely untrue. Battletech was a much, much better game before they wrecked it with the clans. So was this game.

Fourth Succession War forever.

I say BS !!! Remove all the spheroids from the battlefield...LET THE CLAN WARS BEGIN !!! A society bred for war !!! Oh joy !!!

[Chados]

I'd greatly rather see the game set in 3020 rather than 3050. But it's not feasible. Think of all the refunds. Most active Mechwarriors have invested something in one or more of the Clan waves or mechs. You can't drop without tripping over three
Kodiaks and I've had plenty of pug queue matches where I was piloting the only IS mech on my side.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 September 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

Most likely that the addition of heat sinks increases the heat capacity of mechs, instead of being a fixed value.

Well, if that's the case, then yes, it is unique to MWO, but heat capacity was not completely fixed in MW4 either so it isn't the first to NOT have a flat heat capacity across all mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2016 - 02:35 PM.

[Koniving]

Rock Roller, on 28 September 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

I want them to add anti-mech self tracking Long Tom consumables that only I can use. They only activate if I survived more than 45 seconds from drop.

Sounds balanced to me.

Mild suggestion.
Why not just have PGI base MWO's Long Tom on Batletech's Long Tom?

Current MWO Long Tom stats:
"Today’s change is a straight reduction to the Long Tom damage value, from its previous 700 DMG down to 300 DMG."
• Explosions no longer deal Critical Damage.
• Long Tom Strike: Maximum amount of Damage that can be dealt to a single 'Mech is now 1650 DMG (150 DMG per Component).
• Long Tom Strike: Blast radius is 300m.

So, consider this: Battletech's maximum amount of Long Tom Damage versus a maximum of 19 enemies, TIMES TWO...
is only 570 damage TOTAL. Divided evenly for the 19 mechs that's 30 damage per mech. o.O;
Epicenter range is 30 meters and damage TIMES TWO: is 60.
Within 60 meters of the impact TIMES TWO is 40 damage per mech in this range.
Within 90 meters of the impact TIMES TWO is 20 damage per mech in this range.
That whole lot of damage I just described is Battletech Long Tom damage DOUBLED to account for double armor/structure.

Now read PGI's Long Tom stats again.
Notice something very wrong here?

[VATER]

Derailing a bit but why the hell do they not bring the pilot as a factor into play...other games have that...I think it was wrthunder were you as a pilot could basically black-out in certain situations...You tinker with the heat too much your vision gets blurry stuff like that...just an idea.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well, if that's the case, then yes, it is unique to MWO, but heat capacity was not completely fixed in MW4 either so it isn't the first to NOT have a flat heat capacity across all mechs.

MW4 did a few subtle things to increase its potential TTK, though. Lower heat thresholds than MWO, but far faster dissipation. Longer cooldowns on weapons. Parts of mechs that were separate entities from HTAL, such as missile boxes. It also had a maximum damage per component threshold. Did you know it was impossible to one shot any mech in MW4? The first hit from fresh on a mech would, at most, reduce it to around 1% HP, be it a head shot or torso shot. Now, if you staggered your shots by even 1/8 of a second, it would bypass the limit, but if you nailed someone with a 60 point alpha to the face at the same exact time (such as a 2xGauss 2xERPPC Warhawk), they would not be killed.

[Rock Roller]

Koniving, on 28 September 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

Mild suggestion.
Why not just have PGI base MWO's Long Tom on Batletech's Long Tom?

Current MWO Long Tom stats:
"Today’s change is a straight reduction to the Long Tom damage value, from its previous 700 DMG down to 300 DMG."
• Explosions no longer deal Critical Damage.
• Long Tom Strike: Maximum amount of Damage that can be dealt to a single 'Mech is now 1650 DMG (150 DMG per Component).
• Long Tom Strike: Blast radius is 300m.

So, consider this: Battletech's maximum amount of Long Tom Damage versus a maximum of 19 enemies, TIMES TWO...
is only 570 damage TOTAL. Divided evenly for the 19 mechs that's 30 damage per mech. o.O;
Epicenter range is 30 meters and damage TIMES TWO: is 60.
Within 60 meters of the impact TIMES TWO is 40 damage per mech in this range.
Within 90 meters of the impact TIMES TWO is 20 damage per mech in this range.
That whole lot of damage I just described is Battletech Long Tom damage DOUBLED to account for double armor/structure.

Now read PGI's Long Tom stats again.
Notice something very wrong here?

I think you missed the rampant sarcasm.

[Wolf Ender]

They should have waited another year or 2 to release the clans. they did it too early. but once you release it you can't take them back out. People will just be too upset.

[Koniving]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

Well, if that's the case, then yes, it is unique to MWO, but heat capacity was not completely fixed in MW4 either so it isn't the first to NOT have a flat heat capacity across all mechs.

It was a flat 60 maximum alpha heat.
Now if you're talking about that big MW4 overhaul program then that's another story. But the official one only has a flat capacity of 60.
Of course if you LOST heatsinks that capacity reduces proportionately But you didn't gain it for adding more.

For comparison: MW2, Mercs and Ghost Bear's Legacy all had 40. MW3 had 30. MW3 if you installed Pirate's Moon or patches retro-bumps to 40. MW1 (PC) had 30. MW1 (SNES; awesome game overall even if the gameplay was terrible compared to standards set later) had 30.
MWO has a minimum of 40 (10 SHS), a standard of 50 (10 DHS) unless SKILLZ be added, then a standard of 60 for 10 DHS.
MWO has a CURRENT MAXIMUM -- with a mech still having 1 ER PPC -- of 107.04
MWO has a past MAXIMUM -- at time of Clan release -- of over 136.

Edited by Koniving, 28 September 2016 - 02:50 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Imperius, on 28 September 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

Would you be mad if we just got rid of all IS tech and all mechs beca clan tech?

I like this option better.

Yes, this would be more balanced/fun. All Mechs have DHS, ultra versions and LBX versions of all ACs, targeting computers are all balanced (no command console B.S.), and all have clanXL engines available.

This would be more balanced and more fun. So, remove the IS. Done.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 28 September 2016 - 02:46 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 September 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Lower heat thresholds than MWO

This isn't wholly true, it depends on the mech, ballistic boats earned a lot higher heat capacity by virtue of heat sinks not affecting them. I'd have to double check vanilla values and some heat levels, but I believe if you look in MP3.x, it lists the heat capacity, but MW4 allows you to go over that by 50% before hitting the shutdown point (the 50% extra is all penalized). So iirc, some mechs effectively had a heat cap of around 90 (with 33% of that incurring penalties).

Pariah Devalis, on 28 September 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Longer cooldowns on weapons. Parts of mechs that were separate entities from HTAL, such as missile boxes.

Longer cooldowns is somewhat true, the LLs in MW4 had a recycle time of 5s since the actual recycle time included the last animation (kinda like ours do just without the hitscan PPFLD) which isn't to far from MWO's (4.25 and 4.5), but other weapons were definitely longer.

As for HTAL, this was both a blessing and a curse because MW4 handled damage transfer differently. First mechs with Endo transferred 100% of the damage to other components whether it be overflow or dead side torsos while Standard internal mechs transferred 50% (which is more like MWO), BUT damage transferred went straight to internals unlike MWO which goes to armor. So this is sort of misleading. Disclaimer here, the difference between standard and endo may have been mod specific, but I don't believe so given that extensive changing of the game like that hadn't been done by the time I played this mod so it is very possible it was an inherent thing with vanilla.

Pariah Devalis, on 28 September 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

It also had a maximum damage per component threshold. Did you know it was impossible to one shot any mech in MW4?

This is false to a point, it had one hit protection on the HD and CT but this was only on direct hits to those sections, you could actually still get one hit kills through things like side torsos and legs thanks to damage transfer.

Koniving, on 28 September 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

It was a flat 60 maximum alpha heat.
Now if you're talking about that big MW4 overhaul program then that's another story.

MW4 is a part of the Mechwarrior series whether you like it or not, so MWO isn't the first.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[Lightfoot]

It would be more one dimensional without the Clans. I play both factions, the Clans are not the best faction. I can take some of the Inner Sphere mechs and beat any Clan mech 1v1. The Mad Cat, the KDK-3, any of them.

[Koniving]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

MW4 is a part of the Mechwarrior series whether you like it or not, so MWO isn't the first.

MW4 as officially released did not have it.
MEKTEK the overhaul program is NOT official and was NOT made by Developers building a game for profit, it was made by a series of fans who got a license to distribute the game for free with their tweaks.
Their. Tweaks.
Thus MWO is the first game to officially have it and with any luck, the last game
(to have it).

Edited by Koniving, 28 September 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Koniving, on 28 September 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

MW4 as officially released did not have it.

I'm pretty sure it did, Mektek just made it VISIBLE to you (and of course added their own OP mechs).

I'll test in vengeance or mercs to double check, but I'm pretty sure heat capacity scaled with tonnage (granted it was still somewhat arbitrary).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2016 - 02:57 PM.

[Deathlike]

Removing all Clan tech wouldn't fix the problem that IS tech is still not balanced within itself. IS ERPPC would still suck outside of quirks, and LBX is still LBX (still not a good weapon).

It's mostly on PGI's shoulders to address that, but then again...

[DAYLEET]

badaa, on 28 September 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

now i know this will never happen, but would u willingly get rid of all things clan if it made the game better?

Cant you ask "what if Era was made, do you fear your Clan mech would go unused?" instead? Because it's impossible that one day PGI will come and say "ok guys, we are removing half of what we call content"

[TVMA Doc]

badaa, on 28 September 2016 - 01:16 PM, said:

now i know this will never happen, but would u willingly get rid of all things clan if it made the game better?

That would be very difficult as there are players who have paid real money for their clan mechs. Those people might just be a bit miffed if all things clan were suddenly removed.

[RestosIII]