326 replies to this topic

[mikerso]

Dee Eight, on 14 October 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

So many strings of **** games thanks to teams just chasing KMDDs and not playing the matches except for themselves that I got dragged back to Tier 4....

You do realize that you are also part of the equation in your tier drop as well? Blaming a tier drop on your losses and teams is really kind of selfish. Look at your losses and ask yourself what more you could have done, or what you could have done to lead your team.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

This event was great.

I even had a weird game where my AWS was the heaviest mech on my team. The heaviest thing on their team was a KDK-3, naturally.

We had good heavies, they put the KDK down before it ate my face.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 14 October 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[Dee Eight]

mikerso, on 14 October 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

You do realize that you are also part of the equation in your tier drop as well? Blaming a tier drop on your losses and teams is really kind of selfish. Look at your losses and ask yourself what more you could have done, or what you could have done to lead your team.

Well let's see... 90% of players are NOT locking targets, so anyone with LRMs cannot offer support, and nobody else knows where the enemy is until they turn a corner and blunder into them or until they see a friendly vanish off the map (and that only gives them a vague idea where the enemy is). And large numbers are outright jumping in front of existing fire to try and steal kills the times someone has locked the target. I had several games last night where folks even aimed at NON-vulnerable areas of a mech, to delay killing it, so they could soak more damage into the target, wasting time and effort while the rest of the enemy team ISN'T being killed. In one case, an archer lrm boat had no CT armor and was yellow structure and a shadowcat (which had done the armor removal) wasn't killing it off. He shooting other components instead. And then four others joined the fiasco...meanwhile there's 9 other ALIVE enemies not being engaged.

[D V Devnull]

Dee Eight, on 14 October 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

mikerso, on 14 October 2016 - 06:09 AM, said:

You do realize that you are also part of the equation in your tier drop as well? Blaming a tier drop on your losses and teams is really kind of selfish. Look at your losses and ask yourself what more you could have done, or what you could have done to lead your team.

Well let's see... 90% of players are NOT locking targets, so anyone with LRMs cannot offer support, and nobody else knows where the enemy is until they turn a corner and blunder into them or until they see a friendly vanish off the map (and that only gives them a vague idea where the enemy is). And large numbers are outright jumping in front of existing fire to try and steal kills the times someone has locked the target. I had several games last night where folks even aimed at NON-vulnerable areas of a mech, to delay killing it, so they could soak more damage into the target, wasting time and effort while the rest of the enemy team ISN'T being killed. In one case, an archer lrm boat had no CT armor and was yellow structure and a shadowcat (which had done the armor removal) wasn't killing it off. He shooting other components instead. And then four others joined the fiasco...meanwhile there's 9 other ALIVE enemies not being engaged.

Adding to what Dee Eight has said, there is also another nasty problem. That problem is a whole team, whom you tell that they're being backflanked by the enemy, but they don't listen. They're so mentally stuck on 'NASCAR' that they miss the enemy team coming up from behind, and the person who's trying to warn them of impending doom/failure/etc. gets killed after doing less than 50 damage. And yes, that happened to me while I was piloting a Dire Wolf, trying to work on my Assault KMDD, but understanding that keeping the team alive comes first, and trying to watch out for enemy activity. There is literally nothing you can do when you try to help coordinate a team, but the team won't listen anyway because they're stuck on their own damned awful mental agenda. It's literally a case where either Dee Eight or myself happen to be doing everything right, but nothing good comes of it because of 11 other idiots who don't think they're gonna listen. So, mikerso, please don't assume that there is always something that someone can do, when they're already doing all they can. When a Pilot is already doing all they can but nobody's listening, there's nothing more to learn from, especially when their Max Speed is already only a meager 48.6 Kph.

Long and short of it... How would you learn anyway, when you're dead first from a backflank, and nobody came to help when you called to the team at the first sign of danger? Or even when you repeatedly try to alert them, all while trying to defend yourself, because you don't have the speed to run away?

~Mr. D. V. "even seeing my 'XP x2' not clear" Devnull




[Edit by author for a missed thought...]

Edited by D V Devnull, 14 October 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Lorginir]

Got enough points for mc and items and I can safely send this moronfest to hell. Matchmaking not working, damage not detecting, people slamming buckets of srm6 into exactly same component without any spread to a moving light mech 200 meters away.

[MovinTarget]

Dee Eight, on 14 October 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well let's see... 90% of players are NOT locking targets, so anyone with LRMs cannot offer support, and nobody else knows where the enemy is until they turn a corner and blunder into them or until they see a friendly vanish off the map (and that only gives them a vague idea where the enemy is). And large numbers are outright jumping in front of existing fire to try and steal kills the times someone has locked the target. I had several games last night where folks even aimed at NON-vulnerable areas of a mech, to delay killing it, so they could soak more damage into the target, wasting time and effort while the rest of the enemy team ISN'T being killed. In one case, an archer lrm boat had no CT armor and was yellow structure and a shadowcat (which had done the armor removal) wasn't killing it off. He shooting other components instead. And then four others joined the fiasco...meanwhile there's 9 other ALIVE enemies not being engaged.

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Adding to what Dee Eight has said, there is also another nasty problem. That problem is a whole team, whom you tell that they're being backflanked by the enemy, but they don't listen. They're so mentally stuck on 'NASCAR' that they miss the enemy team coming up from behind, and the person who's trying to warn them of impending doom/failure/etc. gets killed after doing less than 50 damage. And yes, that happened to me while I was piloting a Dire Wolf, trying to work on my Assault KMDD, but understanding that keeping the team alive comes first, and trying to watch out for enemy activity. There is literally nothing you can do when you try to help coordinate a team, but the team won't listen anyway because they're stuck on their own damned awful mental agenda. It's literally a case where either Dee Eight or myself happen to be doing everything right, but nothing good comes of it because of 11 other idiots who don't think they're gonna listen. So, mikerso, please don't assume that there is always something that someone can do, when they're already doing all they can. When a Pilot is already doing all they can but nobody's listening, there's nothing more to learn from, especially when their Max Speed is already only a meager 48.6 Kph.

Long and short of it... How would you learn anyway, when you're dead first from a backflank, and nobody came to help when you called to the team at the first sign of danger? Or even when you repeatedly try to alert them, all while trying to defend yourself, because you don't have the speed to run away?

~Mr. D. V. "even seeing my 'XP x2' not clear" Devnull




[Edit by author for a missed thought...]

I am only half joking when I say I fail to see how that is unlike every other QP game. Ever.

All I can say is that LRMs may not be the best way to secure KMDDs if you have to, as you admitted, rely on teammates that may or may not be intentionally *not* targeting the mechs they are firing upon.

I hate to say it but the brutal truth of QP is unless you drop with a group that you have to assume that the other 11 players on your team may not have team interests, much less yours, on their minds. It happens, but I just can't go into QP thinking "They'll hold locks and focus fire!"

You hope.

You give 'em a chance.

But you can't make that horse drink even if you lead 'em to water.

Not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist. I am *NOT* advocating playing purely selfishly, but you can't drop in QP with rose-colored cockpit glass. You have your reasons for dropping in solo QP, so do they, whether its to get one KMDD, farm cbills/XP/GXP, test a mech build in real situations, or maybe, just maybe focus on winning.

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 October 2016 - 09:49 AM.

[D V Devnull]

Lorginir, on 14 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Got enough points for mc and items and I can safely send this moronfest to hell.

Unless you want the in your pocket...

Lorginir, on 14 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Matchmaking not working, damage not detecting, people slamming buckets of srm6 into exactly same component without any spread to a moving light mech 200 meters away.

Just out of curiosity, are those SRM6 Launchers equipped with Artemis? Is that Pilot's Mech boosted with Skill Unlocks to Full Elite or Master status? Do they have a Targeting Computer, or Command Console equipped? These would all be good questions to have answers to, because they all affect how good someone's aim can be. (BTW, I don't happen to own a Mech with that many SRM Launchers all on it at the same time, so please don't get the wrong idea.)


~D. V. "Good aim doesn't come easy." Devnull

[MovinTarget]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

Unless you want the in your pocket...



Just out of curiosity, are those SRM6 Launchers equipped with Artemis? Is that Pilot's Mech boosted with Skill Unlocks to Full Elite or Master status? Do they have a Targeting Computer, or Command Console equipped? These would all be good questions to have answers to, because they all affect how good someone's aim can be. (BTW, I don't happen to own a Mech with that many SRM Launchers all on it at the same time, so please don't get the wrong idea.)


~D. V. "Good aim doesn't come easy." Devnull

Some mechs also have quirks that reduce spread even further on top of artemis.

[Aramuside]

Keshav Murali, on 14 October 2016 - 06:13 AM, said:

This event was great.

I even had a weird game where my AWS was the heaviest mech on my team. The heaviest thing on their team was a KDK-3, naturally.

We had good heavies, they put the KDK down before it ate my face.

Just had the same experience in a KDK-4 I was levelling. Plain weird....

[Aramuside]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Adding to what Dee Eight has said, there is also another nasty problem. That problem is a whole team, whom you tell that they're being backflanked by the enemy, but they don't listen. They're so mentally stuck on 'NASCAR' that they miss the enemy team coming up from behind, and the person who's trying to warn them of impending doom/failure/etc. gets killed after doing less than 50 damage. And yes, that happened to me while I was piloting a Dire Wolf, trying to work on my Assault KMDD, but understanding that keeping the team alive comes first, and trying to watch out for enemy activity. There is literally nothing you can do when you try to help coordinate a team, but the team won't listen anyway because they're stuck on their own damned awful mental agenda. It's literally a case where either Dee Eight or myself happen to be doing everything right, but nothing good comes of it because of 11 other idiots who don't think they're gonna listen. So, mikerso, please don't assume that there is always something that someone can do, when they're already doing all they can. When a Pilot is already doing all they can but nobody's listening, there's nothing more to learn from, especially when their Max Speed is already only a meager 48.6 Kph.

Long and short of it... How would you learn anyway, when you're dead first from a backflank, and nobody came to help when you called to the team at the first sign of danger? Or even when you repeatedly try to alert them, all while trying to defend yourself, because you don't have the speed to run away?

~Mr. D. V. "even seeing my 'XP x2' not clear" Devnull




[Edit by author for a missed thought...]

The Nascar has nothing to do with the KMDD issue though or it wouldn't occur in most normal tier 1 solo matches.....

I've not noticed any increase at all because its literally the only tactic most people normally implement unless someone speaks up and calls. Also the reason I'm not a fan of assaults coincidentally.

[Aramuside]

Lorginir, on 14 October 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Got enough points for mc and items and I can safely send this moronfest to hell. Matchmaking not working, damage not detecting, people slamming buckets of srm6 into exactly same component without any spread to a moving light mech 200 meters away.

Sure.....

[D V Devnull]

Catching up with this a little late...

MovinTarget, on 14 October 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

<<<snip>>>

I am only half joking when I say I fail to see how that is unlike every other QP game. Ever.

All I can say is that LRMs may not be the best way to secure KMDDs if you have to, as you admitted, rely on teammates that may or may not be intentionally *not* targeting the mechs they are firing upon.

I hate to say it but the brutal truth of QP is unless you drop with a group that you have to assume that the other 11 players on your team may not have team interests, much less yours, on their minds. It happens, but I just can't go into QP thinking "They'll hold locks and focus fire!"

You hope.

You give 'em a chance.

But you can't make that horse drink even if you lead 'em to water.

Not trying to be a pessimist, just a realist. I am *NOT* advocating playing purely selfishly, but you can't drop in QP with rose-colored cockpit glass. You have your reasons for dropping in solo QP, so do they, whether its to get one KMDD, farm cbills/XP/GXP, test a mech build in real situations, or maybe, just maybe focus on winning.

MovinTarget, I hear what you're saying, but I'm afraid you have partially taken Dee Eight and myself the wrong way. We're not talking about us being crazy about using LRMs, but simply that nobody seems willing to help somebody else to help themself in taking opponent Mechs down, even in order to do so little as test their build. At the time in reference by my post that I got gunned down, I was running a Quad-UAC/10 Dire Wolf (WITH ABSOLUTELY NO LRMs EQUIPPED), and I should have probably been more clear about that in my post.

If only new Pilots coming into the game were taught better by PGI's Tutorial about actually communicating with teammates, and working together to succeed, then I don't think any of us would be having this heated conversation right now. Of course, yes, I know there's always somebody out there who thinks they're going to be a One-Man-Army without any regard to anyone or anything, but we can only hope they learn otherwise without costing too many other people. Unfortunately, as you can see above, mikerso managed to upset two of us in one go, by leaving us to feel that they are somehow assuming that something was still our fault, even when we may already have learned all we can and are already trying to do everything right that we have any control over. The problem really happens to be everything beyond what we can control, and how we get punished by things going wrong due to what we can't control. On top of matters, PGI hasn't done enough to stress how good a thing that teamwork is either.

~D. V. "Things might not be fair because of Real Life, but being wrongfully punished because of others is still wrong." Devnull

[Aramuside]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Catching up with this a little late...


MovinTarget, I hear what you're saying, but I'm afraid you have partially taken Dee Eight and myself the wrong way. We're not talking about us being crazy about using LRMs, but simply that nobody seems willing to help somebody else to help themself in taking opponent Mechs down, even in order to do so little as test their build. At the time in reference by my post that I got gunned down, I was running a Quad-UAC/10 Dire Wolf (WITH ABSOLUTELY NO LRMs EQUIPPED), and I should have probably been more clear about that in my post.

If only new Pilots coming into the game were taught better by PGI's Tutorial about actually communicating with teammates, and working together to succeed, then I don't think any of us would be having this heated conversation right now. Of course, yes, I know there's always somebody out there who thinks they're going to be a One-Man-Army without any regard to anyone or anything, but we can only hope they learn otherwise without costing too many other people. Unfortunately, as you can see above, mikerso managed to upset two of us in one go, by leaving us to feel that they are somehow assuming that something was still our fault, even when we may already have learned all we can and are already trying to do everything right that we have any control over. The problem really happens to be everything beyond what we can control, and how we get punished by things going wrong due to what we can't control. On top of matters, PGI hasn't done enough to stress how good a thing that teamwork is either.

~D. V. "Things might not be fair because of Real Life, but being wrongfully punished because of others is still wrong." Devnull

Though in fairness I think Dee did mention in another post he was using 2 LRM boats which is probably where the confusion has come in.

[D V Devnull]

Aramuside, on 14 October 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Though in fairness I think Dee did mention in another post he was using 2 LRM boats which is probably where the confusion has come in.

If they did, I was unaware. Confusion does happen, right?

~D. V. "The things I miss when I don't read a ton of other threads..." Devnull

[MovinTarget]

Aramuside, on 14 October 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

Though in fairness I think Dee did mention in another post he was using 2 LRM boats which is probably where the confusion has come in.

He did, and he was stating the advantages of using range modules to fire them from 1000+ meters which, if he can get more than a 75% hit rate at that distance (and I mean 75% of all the fired missiles hitting, not 75% of *one* missile hitting at least) hey, go for it, but I, as a rule, don't strive to depend on the actions of others in QP, even with LRMs -because that's about the only way to level some mechs- so I tend to play closer to the action. Here is one of his statements from the 2016 Loyalty Rewards thread:

Dee Eight, on 12 October 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

Most of my LRM kills and assists come at 1000+ meters. If I build an LRM mech, whether its with 5s or 10s or 15s, I'm running both the cooldown and range modules for whatever launcher size the mech is build around. I might not hit a 160+ locust or commando very well at that distance, but heavies and assaults... not a problem.

He had other statements about how he moves around and carries backup weapons which is all good if he can make it work, its not in my nature to be that far away unless I'm doing direct damage sniping, so I ain't judging, just can't wrap my head around how you get your own targets even with BAP/CAP + adv sensor module over 1000m away... That could be my own own lack of knowledge which I readily concede is plausible.

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Catching up with this a little late...


MovinTarget, I hear what you're saying, but I'm afraid you have partially taken Dee Eight and myself the wrong way. We're not talking about us being crazy about using LRMs, but simply that nobody seems willing to help somebody else to help themself in taking opponent Mechs down, even in order to do so little as test their build. At the time in reference by my post that I got gunned down, I was running a Quad-UAC/10 Dire Wolf (WITH ABSOLUTELY NO LRMs EQUIPPED), and I should have probably been more clear about that in my post.

If only new Pilots coming into the game were taught better by PGI's Tutorial about actually communicating with teammates, and working together to succeed, then I don't think any of us would be having this heated conversation right now. Of course, yes, I know there's always somebody out there who thinks they're going to be a One-Man-Army without any regard to anyone or anything, but we can only hope they learn otherwise without costing too many other people. Unfortunately, as you can see above, mikerso managed to upset two of us in one go, by leaving us to feel that they are somehow assuming that something was still our fault, even when we may already have learned all we can and are already trying to do everything right that we have any control over. The problem really happens to be everything beyond what we can control, and how we get punished by things going wrong due to what we can't control. On top of matters, PGI hasn't done enough to stress how good a thing that teamwork is either.

~D. V. "Things might not be fair because of Real Life, but being wrongfully punished because of others is still wrong." Devnull

And D V, it's not really about LRMs altogether. We have to accept that dropping in QP solo in a fat, slow mech is our choice and not kid ourselves that someone is going to escort us. After all, for all the times someone drops competently in an assault, there are probably dozens of times the team comes back to escort an assault, only to have it be some silly joke build they made for the lulz.

Oh and sorry if anyone thinks I'm heated, I'm really not and trying to be as rational as possible...

That's why I play giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I really don't expect teamwork/targets/coordination... I just hope for it and plan on doing what I can with what I have.

Even when they are on comms, there are so many languages and accents that its a bit of a challenge.

You try, that's all you can do.

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 October 2016 - 11:10 AM.

[D V Devnull]

MovinTarget, on 14 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

And D V, it's not really about LRMs altogether. We have to accept that dropping in QP solo in a fat, slow mech is our choice and not kid ourselves that someone is going to escort us. After all, for all the times someone drops competently in an assault, there are probably dozens of times the team comes back to escort an assault, only to have it be some silly joke build they made for the lulz.

I'm not even talking about being escorted in a fat, slow Mech. I don't bring "joke builds" either, as I wouldn't even know how to do one. I'm still actively trying to keep up with the group, but I suddenly notice about EIGHT opponent Mechs coming in from behind on our side. I don't have a choice but to turn and fight. At that point, I've also been telling the rest of the team for a short while (as the opponents got close enough to slam upon) that they need to turn back around and deal with it if they wish to survive. They don't turn around, I get mowed down needlessly, even as I'm trying to give my team a chance to not do something stupid, and all I'm left with is anger/salt/toxicity/<insert-similar-thought-here>... Simple truth is, you warn a team and they don't listen, you shouldn't be punished so horribly for the faults of ELEVEN other people causing you to become a "Clubbed Baby Seal"... I start to wonder if PGI's actively got the MatchMaker set up to track me down and mutilate me every so often, just for somebody's sadistic enjoyment. They sure haven't provided enough tools again yet to give your teammates an idea of what trouble is coming at them! Like, pardon my yelling for a moment, but ... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE FRIENDLY DIRECTIONAL DORITOS THAT WE USED TO HAVE, SO WE CAN AVOID HITTING EACH OTHER AND JUMPING IN EACH OTHERS' FIRING PATHS?!?!?!? That's just a sample of how mentally overloaded that incompetence between bad teammates and PGI has made me.

MovinTarget, on 14 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Oh and sorry if anyone thinks I'm heated, I'm really not and trying to be as rational as possible...

I wasn't saying it was just you being heated or anything. I was referring to the group of us all involved in this discussion as a whole, and how it simply felt heated. Sorry for having given the wrong impression there. Also, sorry if I sound like I'm trying to blast you in the previous paragraph, as I'm totally not.

MovinTarget, on 14 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

That's why I play giving people the benefit of the doubt, but I really don't expect teamwork/targets/coordination... I just hope for it and plan on doing what I can with what I have.

Even when they are on comms, there are so many languages and accents that its a bit of a challenge.

You try, that's all you can do.

I know this all too well... Sadly, I try to be too much of an optimist, because 'pessimism = death' when it comes to MWO. Sadly, I keep getting it thrown back in my face. I wish I could make those idiots out there pay for it, instead of being the one paying for their bad deeds. But, who knows when PGI will fix their game code to better award good pilots and plaster the bad ones into the floor?


~Mr. D. V. "Trying to not let 'F-bombs' fly on VoIP..." Devnull

[MovinTarget]

I know D V, we've had many a good discussion over the years... Almost as many as I've had drops with teams where I felt like clearly I am playing a different game than my teammates...

[Wintersdark]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

I know this all too well... Sadly, I try to be too much of an optimist, because 'pessimism = death' when it comes to MWO. Sadly, I keep getting it thrown back in my face. I wish I could make those idiots out there pay for it, instead of being the one paying for their bad deeds. But, who knows when PGI will fix their game code to better award good pilots and plaster the bad ones into the floor?


~Mr. D. V. &quot;Trying to not let 'F-bombs' fly on VoIP...&quot; Devnull

Ultimately, there's no way for PGI to award better pilots. There's simply no metric that works there. We've been down that road a lot of times... So, this isn't a coding issue. Not that it would matter if they could do it.

Ultimately, you've always got to go to Quick Play matches (in this or any game) with two things in mind:

1) your teammates will probably not show any teamwork of note and will almost certainly act in a way that's helpful to you. This is simply how people are - they don't really think about the other players on their team. Unfortunate, but VERY normal. No sense being upset about it (even if that would be entirely justified) as it's simply a fact of life.

And

2) You need to be totally self sufficient, but strive not to be part of the #1 problem above. That is, you need to be aware of where teammates are, and move before you're in a place where they're going to shoot through you. You need to expect that player to just wander in front of you, to know that the only locks you get will be your own, to know that you'll be abandoned in a heartbeat as the guy beside you chases after a Jenner he'll never catch as the enemy team roles up on your heels. It's just how public PvP play is, and it's why team/unit play is so popular.

You need to know and accept these things while not doing them yourself. That's the hard part. (Note this isn't directed at anyone in particular)

Because what happens is that when you say, "they always do that to me, so screw them" you become part of the problem, because those other players aren't "they", they're not one mass of identical halfwits. A huge number are people just like you, who desperately want some teamwork. And a lot of them have given up on it.

Success in the solo queue is totally within grasp. You just have to work with the tools you have, no matter how terrible they may be.

Bloody tools >.<

[mikerso]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

.....
There is literally nothing you can do when you try to help coordinate a team, but the team won't listen anyway because they're stuck on their own damned awful mental agenda. It's literally a case where either Dee Eight or myself happen to be doing everything right, but nothing good comes of it because of 11 other idiots who don't think they're gonna listen. So, mikerso, please don't assume that there is always something that someone can do, when they're already doing all they can. When a Pilot is already doing all they can but nobody's listening, there's nothing more to learn from, especially when their Max Speed is already only a meager 48.6 Kph.

Long and short of it... How would you learn anyway, when you're dead first from a backflank, and nobody came to help when you called to the team at the first sign of danger? Or even when you repeatedly try to alert them, all while trying to defend yourself, because you don't have the speed to run away?
.......

This is the biggest thing I disagree with in FP and QP. And I have said it before. Considering yourself to be on a team with 11 idiots only makes you idiot #12. Assuming that 90% of your team is playing selfishly is also a selfish opinion. Assuming that all other players play bad, because they don't play how you want them to play is selfish.

Once you are in a match with 12 pugs, what the community sees as good game play pretty much goes out the window. Because you have 12 opinions of what should be done. If you can't help the team, then do your best to have fun. And contrary to popular belief winning is not always the same as fun.

Even though I do disagree with you and Dee Eight, still glad to have you guys as in game friends.

As I've said at the end of many of my pug drop commands in faction play, "Win or lose, we gave em hell and had fun doing it!"

Edit to add this: if you want a team that is coordinated get with a unit or some buddies. A coordinated 12 man can do wonders, but be prepared for the rebuttal if you do not do what the collective whole deems correct. Otherwise let's go kill with skittles.

Edited by mikerso, 14 October 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Even with skittles you can have a rousing good game! If people communicate and are willing to possibly sacrifice some of their personal agenda, great. Ya just can't expect everyone to "buy in"...

I have found myself many a time saying to myself, "You go to war with the army you've got."


...and I bet many a time someone has thought the same when watching me play lol...