23 replies to this topic

[FuhNuGi]

Yes, in case you have not caught on...

Current event, for all it's "fun rewards for playing", sets up a horrific "all about me" scenario... everyone is chasing that KMDD!

I am seeing an even greater lack of team support than normal while everyone goes off chasing cookies hoping they will score more damage than the next guy while chasing that Locust with their Dire Wolf.

Hands down, this event is setup to give Individuals a ribbon at the cost of team dynamics.



How about it PGI, come up with an event that rewards team players, teamwork.. maybe throw a bone to the guys packing NARC and TAG and team assists. How about letting the guys playing for the team get some rewards.

I run a boat quick text often.. I make up for this with a "useless" Kit Fox with AMS overload setup as a pure support mech.

How about an event that rewards team players instead of a bunch of Individuals?

Edited by FuhNuGi, 03 October 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[RestosIII]

I'm still waiting for AMS rewards.

[Jman5]

RestosIII, on 03 October 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for AMS rewards.

I wish it would tell you how many missiles you shot down.

OP, if you're running a mech that doesn't get the best damage numbers, you really just need to make a point to prioritize one guy. So if 3 guys pop up you always shoot the same guy until he goes down. 1 KMDD isn't asking a lot even in a support build.

[CheeseThief]

KMDD is the best thing ever added to these events because it encourages competent play. No multiple people chasing cored opponents because they want the kill above all else, no hanging back with 5 TAGs equipped so they can rake in ALL the assists, no chasing a specific mech through the enemy team because it's the only one on the field that counts.

KMDD is simply shooting the enemy the most. And it is glorious.



The fact that you need to get KMDD's in all the weight classes also means light and medium queues have never been healthier. To the point where this should be a monthly event.

[Idealsuspect]

Thoses guys are funny with theirs " PURE SUPPORT " man you want really support your team ?

Instead stand in middle of them, arguing that :

• AMSing the area,
  
• lrming but only when someone is spotting
  
• or launching UAV is pure teamwork

Just do some direct damage, get some KMDDs and maybe get some solo kills
Yea by this way you will support and carry your team ...
Not only PURE support, while hoping to be carried by yours teamates you think FULLY supporting.


You want TAG, narc or provide more AMS than weapons ? OK fine there is group queue for this then you can ask yours friends to take lrms and in this way is totally logical and good plan...

But in solo QP just come with more weapons if you want fully support and carry people ( cause they really need to like a baby need his mom ).

Edited by Idealsuspect, 03 October 2016 - 05:13 PM.

[FuhNuGi]

The problem isn't getting the KMDD, any half-competent gamer can do that...

It is when half the team THINKS they have it and go off chasing a wounded dove into an ambush leaving the other half of the team going "where did everyone go"

KMDD event rewards solo play at the loss of team focus.

[Simbacca]

RestosIII, on 03 October 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

I'm still waiting for AMS rewards.

Truth be told - that could actually encourage players - especially IS players to mount it. All my InnerSphere mechs mount it - save those that I do not intend to keep - just need them for the grind.

[Mystere]

CheeseThief, on 03 October 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

KMDD is the best thing ever added to these events because it encourages competent play. No multiple people chasing cored opponents because they want the kill above all else, no hanging back with 5 TAGs equipped so they can rake in ALL the assists, no chasing a specific mech through the enemy team because it's the only one on the field that counts.

KMDD is simply shooting the enemy the most. And it is glorious.



The fact that you need to get KMDD's in all the weight classes also means light and medium queues have never been healthier. To the point where this should be a monthly event.

I'd rather that winning be the victory condition.

[STEF_]

FuhNuGi, on 03 October 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Current event, for all it's "fun rewards for playing", sets up a horrific "all about me" scenario... everyone is chasing that KMDD!

And this is esactly team work.

Chasing the kill, chasing the cored one, steal the kill, THAT'S is the "all about me"scenario.

Shooting the enemies, instead of hiding, is what you must do in this game, made of 5-minute-skirmish: the more you shoot, the more your team can win.

Finally an event that punish those whoi hide.

This should be a permanent event.

[CheeseThief]

Mystere, on 03 October 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

I'd rather that winning be the victory condition.

We tried that once. It resulted in people doing suicide runs in trial mechs to RNG their way to completion.

[Paigan]

FuhNuGi, on 03 October 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Yes, in case you have not caught on...

Current event, for all it's "fun rewards for playing", sets up a horrific "all about me" scenario... everyone is chasing that KMDD!

I am seeing an even greater lack of team support than normal while everyone goes off chasing cookies hoping they will score more damage than the next guy while chasing that Locust with their Dire Wolf.

Hands down, this event is setup to give Individuals a ribbon at the cost of team dynamics.



How about it PGI, come up with an event that rewards team players, teamwork.. maybe throw a bone to the guys packing NARC and TAG and team assists. How about letting the guys playing for the team get some rewards.

I run a boat quick text often.. I make up for this with a "useless" Kit Fox with AMS overload setup as a pure support mech.

How about an event that rewards team players instead of a bunch of Individuals?

Cute.

In the past, we had event conditions like wins.
People whined, because good players, team players got punished for getting dropped into a bad team.

Then we had killing blow event conditions.
People whined, because the team players AND damage dealers got punished and kill "stealers" were rewarded.

Now we have score and KMDD. Besides the score itself being a joke (see my signature), this is far more fair than the previous approaches.
And of course, people whine.

I tell you what: If using NARC and TAG were the conditions, it would still be a mess and not supportive of team play.
Why?
Because a lot of people would run around narcing and tagging stuff all day long, over-narcing, suiciding, not really contributing much. Even less than aiming for high damage.

Conclusion:

1.) Don't think so short-sighted. Try to use your brain a little more.
2.) Properly measuring team play contribution is VERY hard. Even more so in pug-like matches.

[DGTLDaemon]

KMDD is currently the most reasonable measure of a player's performance. It's not perfect, but it's better than counting killing blows, and definitely better than encouraging everyone to run around NARCing and TAGging. Kill assists are also a good indicator, and they are regularly used in events, just not this one.

And yes, measuring team play contribution is extremely difficult.

[Pyrocolonic]

Oh well.

I like being able to log in, drop in my 10 erppc direwolf, shoot someone and die. Easy peasy KMDD, and less time interacting with the weekend warrior crowd.

[PFC Carsten]

Stefka Kerensky, on 03 October 2016 - 10:08 PM, said:

And this is esactly team work.

Chasing the kill, chasing the cored one, steal the kill, THAT'S is the "all about me"scenario.

Shooting the enemies, instead of hiding, is what you must do in this game, made of 5-minute-skirmish: the more you shoot, the more your team can win.

Finally an event that punish those whoi hide.

This should be a permanent event.

Funny story to contradict your assessment:
Yesterday (after dying of course as it is proper) I witnessed the last remaining member of our team - a Highland, built for brawl mostly - in almost perfect condition (>90%) hide near the farthest capture point, trying to farm wounded enemy mechs nearing him. Which was working apparently, since he said afterwards he got two KMDDs.

While this is a single incident, hiding still is prevalent in my experience.

[LordNothing]

hyper aggressive leeroy jinkins tactics with srms have been serving me well so far.

[sneeking]

Now if only i had my good old pree fall dmg resize and srm4 quirk nerf huginn....

Hahahahaha

Sadly that ship has sailed i don't think ill bother to play

[xengk]

My play is large unaffected, except the probability of running into solo enemy has increase.
I play mostly direct support role, so me and my escort tend to have favourable odd in this event so far.

Edited by xengk, 04 October 2016 - 02:27 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

DGTLDaemon, on 04 October 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

KMDD is currently the most reasonable measure of a player's performance. It's not perfect, but it's better than counting killing blows, and definitely better than encouraging everyone to run around NARCing and TAGging. Kill assists are also a good indicator, and they are regularly used in events, just not this one.

And yes, measuring team play contribution is extremely difficult.

KMDD is inherently flawed, since it does not discriminate between farmed/randomly applied damage as in pealing an AFK or just mindlessly hammering with LRMs and carefully taken out STs, legging or aimed headshots.

There are several ways in which this metric could be improved, for example „Most Damage to Fatal Section“ which would encourage aimed fire at already damaged sections and basically invalidate LRM and S-SRM spam for the purpose of farming event achievements. Of course, many people do not like the idea that they must earn their stuff... so: http://mwomercs.com/...-kill-and-kmdd/

Similar for assists. I tried this once (actually twice, since the first time my team did not win and I might have missed some assists) and snuck up to the main enemy force and fired a single cERLL once in a sweeping motion. That got me a whopping 8 assists in the end for 10 damage applied. Proof that this metric as it is now is also quite useless.

Metrics need to be deprived of their current participation award character and get a threshold applied. For assists for example I think that 10 points of damage would be a nice mininum in order to measure actual contribution to the act of taking out a mech (contrary to my proof of concept above).

The easiest way and more a PGI-style band-aid would be an additional win condition in order for anything but the most basic achievement ("click play once a day") to be completed.

[DGTLDaemon]

PFC Carsten, on 04 October 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

KMDD is inherently flawed, since it does not discriminate between farmed/randomly applied damage as in pealing an AFK or just mindlessly hammering with LRMs and carefully taken out STs, legging or aimed headshots.

There are several ways in which this metric could be improved, for example „Most Damage to Fatal Section“ which would encourage aimed fire at already damaged sections and basically invalidate LRM and S-SRM spam for the purpose of farming event achievements. Of course, many people do not like the idea that they must earn their stuff... so: http://mwomercs.com/...-kill-and-kmdd/

Frankly, the easiest way to improve KMDDs would be to replace them with solo kills. But that would result in a lot of people whining about it "being tooo hard"...

Quote

Similar for assists. I tried this once (actually twice, since the first time my team did not win and I might have missed some assists) and snuck up to the main enemy force and fired a single cERLL once in a sweeping motion. That got me a whopping 8 assists in the end for 10 damage applied. Proof that this metric as it is now is also quite useless.

Based on my experience of participating in leaderboards (where assists account for a good chunk of your match score), I disagree. One thing that people often forget about is that grazing an enemy mech does not guarantee you a kill assist - you'll only get it if that mech ends up dead. So the best way to get a lot of assists is to make sure that you team wins - that way you'll have 12 dead enemy mechs, and each of them will represent a potential kill assist. I actually learned to appreciate this metric once I looked a bit deeper into it

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 04 October 2016 - 02:48 AM.

[TWIAFU]

FuhNuGi, on 03 October 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Yes, in case you have not caught on...

Current event, for all it's "fun rewards for playing", sets up a horrific "all about me" scenario... everyone is chasing that KMDD!

I am seeing an even greater lack of team support than normal while everyone goes off chasing cookies hoping they will score more damage than the next guy while chasing that Locust with their Dire Wolf.

Hands down, this event is setup to give Individuals a ribbon at the cost of team dynamics.



How about it PGI, come up with an event that rewards team players, teamwork.. maybe throw a bone to the guys packing NARC and TAG and team assists. How about letting the guys playing for the team get some rewards.

I run a boat quick text often.. I make up for this with a "useless" Kit Fox with AMS overload setup as a pure support mech.

How about an event that rewards team players instead of a bunch of Individuals?

In case you have not caught on, if you want teamwork you need to join a Unit and consistently drop with them, event or not.