163 replies to this topic

[Morggo]

Now, I DO like the idea of having a checkbox or something that would allow a solo to drop in group if feeling saucy and skilled enough. it would allow groups of 11 to be filled with that last solo to make 12 and really it only puts the solo person at challenge since they wouldn't be on the other groups' TS or know their playstyles and tactics. Challenging for the solo dropper, speeds drops for the Groups in queue.. seems win-win.

BUT I digress, much as I like this thought from earlier..... this is not really the purpose of this topic/post, which is allowing 2-mans into Solo....

@ Koniving.. I totally get you and agree it's rough on the issue with lack of skill balancing for the 2man in group..... but.... yeah.

Edited by Morggo, 04 October 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[BattleBunny]

Pls leave solo queue for solo players.

The damage 2 skilled players can do dropping into solo Q is massive.

[Steve Pryde]

I would increase it to 3or 4 personally.

[KingCobra]

Sorry OP I would say NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! should the solo/pug/casual MM be compromised with groups.

Now if you were talking 2v2-12v12 for Faction play mode sure NP make it happen but there also needs to be a pug/casual solo mode for Faction warfare as well.

There are so many good ideas on so many threads in this forum but the Solo/pug/casual MM system should be left alone so the game has some population left playing plus you also have private play for 2v2-12v12 as well which needs workable options to survive much longer.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The OP proposal would work just fine with the following thought-out caveats:

- Groups can be 2 man; no 3 or 4 man groups.
(There has never been a time in MWO history when 2-man-only groups were allowed in the solo queue, so STOP referring to anything that pertains to 3-4 man groups. You're just making a fool of yourself)

- A 2-man group of different tier'd players would have to be MM'd at the higher of the 2 tiers to prevent the seeding of Low-Tier matches with top-tier players.

- Both teams MUST have an equal number of 2-man groups before they are allowed to drop.

- MatchMaker will always search for a matching 2-man group BEFORE seeding a 2-man group into a drop bucket. This is to prevent matches in the formation stage from being hung-up while the MM waits for a second 2-man group to arrive.

- 2 man groups drops in the Solo Queue count as "Private Matches" in terms of event scoring.


There. I dare any sane person to argue with that.

[KHETTI]

Khetti see's "Can i haz a crutch, even if its a small one", go play WoT or WoWs if you want to seal club wiv yer pals.

[Koniving]

Wintersdark, on 04 October 2016 - 10:51 AM, said:

Impossible, sir. You have to have small groups and large groups in the same queue. Remember, teams of 12. How else do you match a 9 man team, in 12v12? Have to have a 3 man.

Plug in 3 solos, each with an allotment of two mechs and X tons.

[SmokingPuffin]

I understand the arguments for keeping solo queue solo only, and I have heard the stories of how previous implementations have worked out, but I also know that the current system is costing PGI customers. I would like to introduce my friends to this game but group queue is just full of troubles for newbies.

1) If you're a small group, you need to all be playing big fat mechs because group queue doesn't balance tonnage.
2) Forming groups of 12 is pretty hard stuff, so queues are longer than you'd want.
3) There is little in the way of skill-based matching in group queue, because forming groups of 12 is hard enough as it is.
4) Almost none of this is explained to new players, so they don't know why they're getting stomped over and over.

This all adds up to a terrible new player experience, and new players are the lifeblood of any F2P game. I think WoT and WoWS do this much better, and I would look at emulating their systems for the quick play queue.

Edited by SmokingPuffin, 04 October 2016 - 11:58 AM.

[KHETTI]

SmokingPuffin, on 04 October 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

I think WoT and WoWS do this much better, and I would look at emulating their systems for the quick play queue.

No , sry but both don't do it better at all and maybe the seal clubbers who are begging in this thread need to learn to play better together as a group.
Quick play queue is bad enough with just randoms,and it was an absolute sh!tshow when groups were allowed.

[Suko]

KHETTI, on 04 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

No , sry but both don't do it better at all and maybe the seal clubbers who are begging in this thread need to learn to play better together as a group.
Quick play queue is bad enough with just randoms,and it was an absolute sh!tshow when groups were allowed.

I was playing then. No one EVER complained about the 2-mans. It was the 6 - 8 man teams playing against complete PUG teams. Also, no tier system and the matchmaker was in its infancy back then. To compare the two is invalid. I'm not going to claim that the PSR system is working, but if you think 2 people on one side (especially if they have a tonnage handicap) are going to completely dominate a 24 man game, you're kidding yourself.

Also, as was said in the OP, why not try it for a month and see? If SOMEHOW it is a horrible mess, just revert to the old system. However, I suspect it would be a crazy success and will make a lot of people happy and those who are freaking out will realize it's actually not a big deal (just like 3PV. Remember that?).

Edited by Suko, 04 October 2016 - 12:47 PM.

[badaa]

we had 2 mans at one point they tended to **** over there team than help it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

KHETTI, on 04 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

No , sry but both don't do it better at all and maybe the seal clubbers who are begging in this thread need to learn to play better together as a group.
Quick play queue is bad enough with just randoms,and it was an absolute sh!tshow when groups were allowed.

Your comment about "when groups were allowed" is invalid. There was never a time in MWO history when groups limited to only 2 players were allowed in the solo queue in a 1-to1 ratio across teams.

Your comment about "seal clubbing" is invalid if a 2-man group is MM'd at the higher of the 2 players' Tier.

Sorry, please read my post up on this page and try again.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 October 2016 - 12:41 PM.

[KHETTI]

Nothing good will come of it, but whatever, keep begging to get your eze mode, just means MWO will stand to lose more players.
Less reason for me to even try to get back into MWO.

[Suko]

So the guy who doesn't even play is telling those who remain how the game should work? That makes no sense at all.

[KHETTI]

Suko, on 04 October 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

So the guy who doesn't even play is telling those who remain how the game should work? That makes no sense at all.

I rarely play these days yes, but i've played a f**kin lot since closed beta, and my previous post should indicate to you that i still hold interest in MWO.
But that has nothing to do with whats good/bad for MWO, and no argument you guys can make for grouped players in QP will convince me that it would be good for MWO.
Previous history actually shows that it would be bad.

[SmokingPuffin]

KHETTI, on 04 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

No , sry but both don't do it better at all and maybe the seal clubbers who are begging in this thread need to learn to play better together as a group.
Quick play queue is bad enough with just randoms,and it was an absolute sh!tshow when groups were allowed.

I find that seal clubbing in WoWS is rarely a divisions thing. Typically we're just talking about a player who has progressed to high tier coming back down to low tiers or so with a tricked out ship and warping the game.

WoWS players complaining about divisions today are usually complaining about "fail divisions" -- teams that brought too wide a tier difference in ships, leading to a hopelessly outgunned low tier ship on their team in a high tier match.

[Jman5]

Koniving, on 04 October 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Perhaps then a small groups queue, large groups queue and a solo queue?

It really sucks to be a two man group due to the lack of skill balancing.

I'm sure you remember what it was like when matchmaker had the full-premade group queue. It was empty 90% of the time. There simply aren't a ton of big 9-12 man premades running around at any one time. When I group queue I see mostly small to medium sized groups. When I do see a big group they are more often than not casual ones that aren't any harder to fight than a hodge-podge team.

[Wintersdark]

Koniving, on 04 October 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

Plug in 3 solos, each with an allotment of two mechs and X tons.

So you want three queues? Solo, small group, and large group+solo? That's not really going to be feasible; it's another bucket when we've already got so few players, and requires a lot of players to opt-in to playing solo in the Large Group queue.

There really aren't easy fixes to this problem. You basically have to make one group or another of players very unhappy in "fixing" it for any other group.

[SmokingPuffin]

Wintersdark, on 04 October 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

So you want three queues? Solo, small group, and large group+solo? That's not really going to be feasible; it's another bucket when we've already got so few players, and requires a lot of players to opt-in to playing solo in the Large Group queue.

There really aren't easy fixes to this problem. You basically have to make one group or another of players very unhappy in "fixing" it for any other group.

I agree, not an easy fix issue. I just think it's very important. There's a reason why every other F2P game has a duo queue option for their solo queue mode and rather a lot have a trio queue option. Not having a welcoming game mode for casual players to play with friends is extremely bad business policy.

If I were to suggest something, I would propose two queues:
1) Groups of 1-3 mechs. Each team will have the same number of groups and the same number of players in groups. Groups will be matched at the skill of the highest PSR player in the group and the matchmaker will attempt to balance tonnage and rating as it currently does for solo queue. Groups of 2 and 3 have tonnage limits somewhere in the range of 70 tons per mech.

2) Groups of 1-3 stars of mechs (4, 8, or 12 mechs). Making the larger team sizes regular would dramatically improve life for the group matchmaker; right now it is doing bin packing with random numbers and no ones. The matchmaker will try its best to match equal groupings, but if it has to pair 4+8 versus 12, it'll do it. Groups are tonnage limited similarly to how they are today.

[chucklesMuch]

Hmmm... I agree that introducing people into this game isn't always much fun and being a small group in the group queue can be a terrible experience for new (and existing) players ...but now that I have given up on that (or more accurately friends tried it and gave up; stomps, ping, salty players and mostly long waiting times), I'm comfortable soloing amongst other solo's. Bigger groups can be a lot of fun but small groups of 2-3 players I often find less fun than playing solo.

I would be okay with 2 mans in the solo que where 1 of the players was new ie hadn't completed the first 25 games.

Edited by chucklesMuch, 04 October 2016 - 02:01 PM.