49 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior5152251]

You know how a girl you meet online claims to weigh 120lbs, then when you meet her she is closer to 200lbs? Same thing with the Centurion...

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:32 AM, said:

Lets start at the beginning. What is "balance" as you define it, and use it above? What did you mean AND what was your concern when you said changing a mechs appearance would affect balance? What is this balance that you speak of?

u still cant quote me on ur lies, and ill ask agian, does changing a mech's hit boxes effect balance , yes or no?

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

u still cant quote me on ur lies, and ill ask agian, does changing a mech's hit boxes effect balance , yes or no?

If balance is defined as all mechs being relatively equal or merely equally viable, then to answer your question: NO, making a Cent slightly thinner and taller and its subsequent changed hit boxes will not change "balance" relative to the greater mech population in the least. Not even a tiny bit. At all.

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

If balance is defined as all mechs being relatively equal or merely equally viable, then to answer your question: NO, making a Cent slightly thinner and taller and its subsequent changed hit boxes will not change "balance" relative to the greater mech population in the least. Not even a tiny bit. At all.

why cant u answer a simple question?
no body is talking about all mechs
im just talking about one random mech, if we were to change the hit boxes on this one random mech , would this effect game balance , yes or no?

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 03:44 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Uh I did. Changing the Cent's appearance would not affect "balance". To many words? You can't have a discussion about balance without defining the term.

[El Bandito]

Your Centurion? What about my Victor?

Look at this sexy beast on the concept art.




And look at this fatty in actual game.




I am willing to bet XL Centurion can survive longer than XL Victor in combat, even when both are fatter than concept art.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 October 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:43 AM, said:

Uh I did. Changing the Cent's appearance would not affect "balance". To many words? You can't have a discussion about balance without defining the term.

didnt i say hitboxes? ur just trolling i assume or a dunce.

do u think u can change a mech without changing hit boxes?

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 03:46 AM.

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

why cant u answer a simple question?
no body is talking about all mechs
im just talking about one random mech, if we were to change the hit boxes on this one random mech , would this effect game balance , yes or no?

I love your edit. How on earth can you discuss "one random mech" in terms of "game balance" yet refuse to understand that the a change to "one random mech" is part of the balance of "all mechs"?

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

I love your edit. How on earth can you discuss "one random mech" in terms of "game balance" yet refuse to understand that the a change to "one random mech" is part of the balance of "all mechs"?

does changing the hit boxes on a mech effect balance? yes or no?

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I already answered this:

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

If balance is defined as all mechs being relatively equal or merely equally viable, then to answer your question: NO, making a Cent slightly thinner and taller and its subsequent changed hit boxes will not change "balance" relative to the greater mech population in the least. Not even a tiny bit. At all.

Emphasis added.

Until you tell me what this balance that you speak of is. That is my answer.

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

I already answered this:
Emphasis added.

Until you tell me what this balance that you speak of is. That is my answer.

u dont know what balace is? in what way should a light mech and an assault should be equal?

take the locust rescale for an example, how much change that made, on one mech rescale

you calling for a rescale on cent and think it wont effect balance?

cent aint even that bad , just bad with scrub pilots who are only use to alpha builds

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 04:03 AM.

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

u dont know what balace is? in what way should a light mech and an assault should be equal?

I've defined balance as I see it at least twice above. But to answer your latest question: the developers of this game have stated repeatedly that all mechs down to the variant level should be unique but have equivalent value i.e. balanced. Moreover, in a competitive video game all mechs need to be equally viable or no one will play the less viable ones. Now the whole point of my earlier posts was to illustrate this. See my Kodiak and Vindicator example: they are not equally viable. They are not balanced as the devs have stated they should be. Thus, neither is a Centurion anymore "balanced". In such a system, changing the profile of the the Cent and giving it different hit boxes is not going to change that schema of balance AT ALL.

Give it any profile and hitboxes you want. Balance of the overall game will not change.

Edit. In regard to your edit above: The locust change came as a result of ALL mechs being re-scaled. As all other lights got bigger it got smaller. That is a totally different issue than making a single mech a bit skinnier and taller in terms of overall balance.

Edited by Bud Crue, 07 October 2016 - 04:10 AM.

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

I've defined balance as I see it at least twice above. But to answer your latest question: the developers of this game have stated repeatedly that all mechs down to the variant level should be unique but have equivalent value i.e. balanced. Moreover, in a competitive video game all mechs need to be equally viable or no one will play the less viable ones. Now the whole point of my earlier posts was to illustrate this. See my Kodiak and Vindicator example: they are not equally viable. They are not balanced as the devs have stated they should be. Thus, neither is a Centurion anymore "balanced". In such a system, changing the profile of the the Cent and giving it different hit boxes is not going to change that schema of balance AT ALL.

Give it any profile and hitboxes you want. Balance of the overall game will not change.

Edit. In regard to your edit above: The locust change came as a result of ALL mechs being re-scaled. As all other lights got bigger it got smaller. That is a totally different issue than making a single mech a bit skinnier and taller in terms of overall balance.

notice how in this thread it stays on the topic of cent , and your the only person who brings up other mechs.

and again i bring up locust re scale, locust got rescaled and people noticed how much more durablity and how much less hits it took, and not to mention how many more players started playing locust.

if kodiak got hella nerfed tomorrow and you seen half less kodiak players in ur games, would u consider that buff to change balance?

same with rescale it changes a mehc just like a nerf or a buff, rescale can effect balance for the better or the worse

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 04:23 AM.

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

notice how in this thread it stays on the topic of cent , and your the only person who brings up other mechs.

and again i bring up locust re scale, locust got rescaled and people noticed how much more durablity and how much less hits it took, and not to mention how many more players started playing locust.

if kodiak got hella nerfed tomorrow and you seen half less kodiak players in ur games, would u consider that nerf to change balance?

Nevermind. The concept of overall balance...which you raised regarding the cent's hitboxes...is obviously not a concept that you understand. As to your Kodiak comment: yes nerfing the best mech in the game would affect overall balance. Slightly changing the hit boxes of a middling 50 ton mech as a result of an proposed art pass, will not. I can say it for a fourth time if you would like, but I don't see any point.

[bLeeat]

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

Nevermind. The concept of overall balance...which you raised regarding the cent's hitboxes...is obviously not a concept that you understand. As to your Kodiak comment: yes nerfing the best mech in the game would affect overall balance. Slightly changing the hit boxes of a middling 50 ton mech as a result of an proposed art pass, will not. I can say it for a fourth time if you would like, but I don't see any point.

please quote me when i ever brought up over all balance in this thread... please.

all i ever stated was that re scaling a mech does effect balance.

oh wwait, u admit that rescaling cent wouldnt change gameplay , i think it would,maybe not as big as locust , but as a peeka boo, making him smaller, would help, u scrubs just playing it wrong , u can alpha him if want

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 04:35 AM.

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

please quote me when i ever brought up over all balance in this thread... please.

all i ever stated was that re scaling a mech does effect balance.

[bLeeat]

sorry i considr mech blance and weapon meta balance diffrent, i forget im talking to an alpha cheese scrub

Bud Crue, on 07 October 2016 - 04:30 AM, said:

thats the face i made when you said rescales dont matter on mechs like cent lol

again i ask...... does rescaling cent effect balance yes or no?

lol such an easy question

Edited by bLeeat, 07 October 2016 - 04:40 AM.

[lazytopaz]

Slimmer centurion would have better hitboxes (which are already OK in experienced hands - read player that knows how and when to punch&shield/torso twist).
It wouldnt make it OP. It would made it better. Stick with the concept when you release them. No idea why some one greenlight'ed the centurion if he/she could (and probably did) look at both concept and at 3d model.
What kind of blind person doesn't notice the obvious differences between concept and model.

Victor on the other hand is the classic "how not to make a mech" example. Playing it probably requires a lot of suicidal thoughts and being ok with the fact that ppl around can easily shoot you too pieces and can do whatever you are doing just as good or (probably in many cases) even better as you with less risk.

Edited by lazytopaz, 07 October 2016 - 04:44 AM.

[Bud Crue]

bLeeat, on 07 October 2016 - 04:41 AM, said:

sorry i considr mech blance and weapon meta balance diffrent, i forget im talking to an alpha cheese scrub


thats the face i made when you said rescales dont matter on mechs like cent lol

again i ask...... does rescaling cent effect balance yes or no?

lol such an easy question

And I've answered it three times.

[Clownwarlord]

lazytopaz, on 07 October 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

I hope the picture is not too big or too fat for the viewers here.

Anyway, let's go.

On the left we have concept art for Centurion.
On the right we have current state (well at least some legendary/champion/whatever version that I've googled out ... has nicer looking shield. I want that one. how can I get it?)

We've recently had re-scale sweep across various mech variants and re-size that went along with it.

Could someone explain to me why current centurion is so fat compared to the slim and bad a$$ looking concept?

Few key observations. In-game/current centurion has :
Torsos and CT are way fatter then they look/feel they should be from concept. Whole torso is narrower and triangled with pointier kind of way.
Belt and waist location is just a place for a McDonalds advertisement sticker "we be McFat".
Same goes for thighs.

Both arms where it connects to shoulder are slimmer too.
I've googled out a picture of someone editing it to look properly. Kudos to that person.

(left current, right desired/proper resize)


Opinions? Thoughts?
Any fellow centurion fans out there that are with me on that?

I like the concept art more. The actual centurion is blocky where as the concept art looks more smooth and rounded in some of the plating.