50 replies to this topic

[Brizna]

Economy implies some sort of market, there is no such thing in this game. We have a grind system to keep you playing to get new things, not so different from the XP system.

[Tibbnak]

Paigan, on 08 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Derp

Congrats on being either a cheater, the one percent, or a really old player.
Move on to another game please.

Edited by Tibbnak, 08 October 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Davers]

Clan mech packs are so much a better deal than IS mechs since the upgrades are all included.

[Gamuray]

Paigan, on 08 October 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Or maybe you squander your money in some instinct-driven quest to have ALL Mechs possible (thinking that would impress some female cavemen or so).

My advice: Play the game with what you have for the game itself, for fun. And before you know it, you'll have enough money for something new.

Well there you have it. Stop buying mechs after you have a few you want and you'll end up with money sitting around. BRAVO, completely relevant answer! Because who in the world wants to expand their horizon or skill and pilot experience beyond a few favorite chassis? It's not like we want to challenge ourselves and get as much variety from this game as possible or anything! Right? Who'd ever want that?

...seriously, when you stop buying mechs you've kind of made the whole "earning money" discussion irrelevant.

Unless you already have all the mechs, in which case over a two year period ... that's an insanely large amount of playtime for regular c-bill grinding. I've been playing 5 years, given occasional month-2 month breaks, and have PLENTY of things to spend c-bills on. In fact, I've only bought 1 module, ONE, because by the time I have enough money for one I don't have anything left to basic/elite and have been ready to move to a new chassis for a while.

For CASUAL players that want a wide variety of piloting experiences and mech selections, the grind is a bit slow. For CASUAL players. For people that play significant amounts of time on a regular basis, not so much. But that's unhealthy and shouldn't be the base line for earnings. (hint: If you're Tier 1 you probably aren't a casual player, even if you think you are.)

[Unnatural Growth]

Tibbnak, on 08 October 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

I've been noticing people spawn into matches, turn on override and overheat suicide. You get participation cbills and winnings if team wins, and it doesn't count as a disco or nonparticipation if you quit afterwards and you can join other matches. Great for cbill farming in post Paulconomy now.

You still get dinged for a "suicide" for overheat killing yourself. Happened to me the other night, last man standing in Mordor match, just decided to pull the pin on the "F-it grenade" and go Leroy Jenkins, hit override and blaze of glory. Match total at end showed me taking a hit for suicide.

Wtf?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Well there is just so much I would like to quote and respond to that it is impossible to do so individually so I will just try to address it all in one post.

First. I have been playing since fairly early closed beta so I know all the tricks of the trade in regards to buying just one of everything and swapping it around but to me that is a huge part of the problem. I really shouldn't have to spend time playing "Find the Module" or "Find the Engine", instead I should be able to outfit each and every mech, FULLY in a reasonable time frame.

Second, every game has to have progression and for good or ill, progression in MWO is all about collecting mechs. I don't know about you all but considering there is so few map and game modes, playing the same few mechs over and over gets old fast. Without being able to experience the game from the perspective of different mechs, with different builds and capabilites, what else is there? However the economy or lets just drop that term and call it what it is, the progression system, is a slow grind that generally just stifles your ability to own and operate new mechs at any sort of reasonable rate even while using premiums time.

Third, I personally don't feel increasing c-bill earnings or decreasing costs would effect the motivation to buy mech packs because even without that being a factor you still have the early access. In fact the vast majority of mech packs I have purchased have been almost entirely about the early access. I mean if I see a new mech I want to play, I am not going to wait 3 months to play it. Nope, I am just going to drop the $20 and pick up at least the basic pack.

On the other hand, the grind for C-bills does tend to sap my motivation to play. What usually happens and is happening now is I start feeling overwhelmed by it. First I run into the "find the module" game which is just annoying and then start realizing just how many modules I am missing to finish out the builds on the dozen or so mechs that I am currently playing. This itself is just millions and millions of C-bills. Then as I am playing I am always tweaking this or that on my builds which costs even more C-bills. Then I pick up a few new mechs and realize I need engines and equipment I don't own, plus maybe even a few more modules I didn't pick up earlier and realize this is even more millions and millions of C-bills. Then I see a few mechs I had passed on before that I would really like to try out and realize this is millions and millions more C-bills. Then I think about the Mech Packs I have purchased and start adding up the cost of outfitting them and that equals millions and millions more and it is at this point where I am like, "What the Frack!!!" because I realize that there is no way in hell I can earn the amount of C-bills I need in the time frame I will need them at. Oh, did I mention I am buying Mech Packs and still having this issue?

The other thing I start running into is that instead of having fun, I spend a huge amount of time trying to "Justify" spending my C-bills on this or that. My new Cataphract build needs a AC/10 Cooldown module to fill out the build as I don't even own one I can take off another mech, however that is a 3 million C-bill investment. I then look at my other mechs and see how many can benefit from is and it is only 1 other mech so I end up not being able to Justify the cost because I have too many other things I need to get. The when I want to try out a new mech, like the Phoenix Hawk's I just purchased, I have to justify that cost as well. I have to look at the cost of the new mech, multiple by 3x since you HAVE to have 3 chassis to get the 1 chassis you want to use mastered. Then ask myself If I will have enough C-bills earned by the time the Huntsmans and Marauder IICs I pre-purchased come out to actually pay for experimentation and final outfitting costs. Seriously there is just something wrong with the game when you have to pre-plan 2 months in advance to insure you have enough C-bills to outfit something you paid cash for.

Seriously, it is beyond ridiculous.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 08 October 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Deathlike, on 08 October 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

The Paulconomy is set up so that you are... given the option to "buy a mechpack" (pay to avoid some grind) or grind it out. There's no two ways around it.

So, it begs the question...

No... I'm calling the police now........

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 08 October 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[Leeroy Jenkin]

OldOrgandonor, on 08 October 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

You still get dinged for a "suicide" for overheat killing yourself. Happened to me the other night, last man standing in Mordor match, just decided to pull the pin on the "F-it grenade" and go Leroy Jenkins, hit override and blaze of glory. Match total at end showed me taking a hit for suicide.

Wtf?

Nobody does Leeroy Jenkins like me.... Plus...you spelled it wrong. Do you wanna buy a mech pack?

[Felbombling]

I know a lot of players aren't going to like this, but the economy and levelling experience in MechWarrior: Online puts other free to play games to shame. I actively play War Thunder, World of Warships and World of Tanks, and having an event like we're enjoying right now in MW: O is completely unheard of in those other games.

Can you imagine being a brand new player coming into MechWarrior: Online right now? You'd be getting Cadet Bonus, Tutorial Bonus and this event bonus money, all at the same time. Holy crap. At the end of the 25 games and Tutorial run, you'd easily be able to buy any Assault Mech you want, Clan or Inner Sphere, and probably outfit it with any weapon load out, to boot.

Those other games I mentioned? You'd still be in fairly low-end starter units, preparing yourself for HUNDREDS of additional games if you had plans to unlock the end game content. Just as an example, you can play hundreds of games in one tech tree alone, say the British Medium Tank line in World of Tanks, and still be miles away from the Centurion Action X, the tier X tank at the end of that particular tech branch.

As for the accumulation of 'stuff' in MW: O, here is the best advice I can give any newer player coming in, assuming you are C-Bill poor and are willing to invest at least $6.95 into the game for Mech Credits...

• Never buy a new Mech unless it is on sale.
  
• If you're going to buy a Mech pack, do so during early adopter rewards window.
  
• Try to avoid selling anything from inventory unless 100% certain you'll never use it, especially engines.
  
• Buy supply cache keys... 99% of the time the item you get will be worth more to you than buying a C-Bill bundle. Selling them for 50k is an option for those who refuse to invest in the game or people already swimming in C-Bills.
  
• Pick a tech and stick with it, Clan or Inner Sphere. By doing that, you focus your module upgrades and purchases to mix and match, Mech to Mech. Going Inner Sphere and Clan at the same time early on will only disappoint, as an Inner Sphere weapon module will be unusable on Clan Mechs, and vice versa.
  
• Play through your 2x XP Mechs if you can swing it. The double rewards add up quick, then you can go back and focus on a Mech you want to work on.
  
• Take advantage of the great reward weekends and other events PGI runs. Like I said earlier, PGI are very generous to us as a player base when it comes to earned loot and in-game currency.

All in all, we've got it pretty good here. I've practically stopped playing War Thunder and World of Tanks, because their idea of a loyalty reward is some crappy tier II unit, whereas PGI will be giving me three new Mechs and 2 million C-Bills this year, based on my spending habits and play level.

[FupDup]

StaggerCheck, on 08 October 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

I actively play War Thunder, World of Warships and World of Tanks, and having an event like we're enjoying right now in MW: O is completely unheard of in those other games.

Why do people always try to use these three games as some kind of gold standard baseline for how to design games?

On a side note, since two of those are by the same developer and all three have many similar mechanics, it's hard to consider them as three entirely separate/unique game.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2016 - 05:35 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

Vas covered this topic back over a year ago with his thread he started, "PSI, earnings vs. time spent and what they afford you." The thread ended up in crazy town, after around 100+ pages. Income is a joke in this game, the grind is a joke in this game. While some might find they open their wallets up to this "tactic" PGI has picked for their model..... it makes my wallet go away. I am a backer for HBS new Battle tech game coming, and I have no issues about backing that game. I know HBS will not go the path PGI has, and are real dev's that have a passion for Battle tech. I hope things change in this game, but I seriously doubt they will. Core game play is fun..... and it is why I am still playing, granted not as much as I used to over a year ago. This game could be so much more if PGI would put the effort in, and wake up!

BTW..... I have spent around $90 dollars in the last three years over two accounts, one IS, one clan... I think my money spent is fair due to the lack of real content and effort PGI has put in this game. Hopefully, they will wake up and this will change. If it does, I will drop more money.... I haven't spent a dime since Vas started his thread, and won't till things change.

I am also not a player that ******* about "balance"..... I could care less about it for the most part. PGI, put some real content in your game, and "balance" will work itself out or buy you time to not piss your player base off if the core of this game and its content is strong. If you build it, many will come.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 08 October 2016 - 05:06 PM.

[Bill Lumbar]

FupDup, on 08 October 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Why do people always try to use these three games as some kind of gold standard baseline for how to design games?

On a side note, since those three are by the same developer and have many similar mechanics, I'd consider them to be reskins of each other rather than three truly unique/separate games.

I have really wanted to play World of Warships, mainly because my dad and I have war gamed with mini's all my life. My dad made modded rules for a game called grand imperialism(board game) with navel rules for sailing ships and even WWII naval battles. But I am not gonna play some stupid *** f2p game with a very unreal model. The only reason I play MWO, is because of my love for battle tech, been playing since age 12. Even that love can only go so far until a company breaks it.

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 08 October 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[Felbombling]

FupDup, on 08 October 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Why do people always try to use these three games as some kind of gold standard baseline for how to design games?

On a side note, since those three are by the same developer and have many similar mechanics, I'd consider them to be reskins of each other rather than three truly unique/separate games.

I use them because they are my experience. How am I supposed to compare MW: O to something I haven't played before? It's not my fault that the three games are similar in most ways to MechWarrior: Online.

btw... War Thunder is not the maker of World of Tanks and World of Warships. They are competing companies, to the best of my knowledge. Unless Gaijin and WarGaming are under a larger umbrella corp.

[FupDup]

StaggerCheck, on 08 October 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

I use them because they are my experience. How am I supposed to compare MW: O to something I haven't played before? It's not my fault that the three games are similar in most ways to MechWarrior: Online.

btw... War Thunder is not the maker of World of Tanks and World of Warships. They are competing companies, to the best of my knowledge. Unless Gaijin and WarGaming are under a larger umbrella corp.

Oops, I was mixing up War Thunder with World of Warplanes in terms of who developed them.

Regardless, they still all share similar concepts like units separated into tiers of which ones are superior, historical battles, matchmaker based on those unit tiers, reputations for extreme grinding, reload/repair costs, high prices, lots of RNG mechanics, etc. They certainly have a lot of target audience overlapping (hence why many people play more than one of them).

World of Tanks in particular is the game that invented Gold Ammo, making it the ultimate example of a Pay2Win title until they made GA available without real money some years ago (because of the effect it had on their reputation). I really wouldn't use that game as a baseline.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

StaggerCheck, on 08 October 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

I know a lot of players aren't going to like this, but the economy and levelling experience in MechWarrior: Online puts other free to play games to shame. I actively play War Thunder, World of Warships and World of Tanks, and having an event like we're enjoying right now in MW: O is completely unheard of in those other games. Can you imagine being a brand new player coming into MechWarrior: Online right now? You'd be getting Cadet Bonus, Tutorial Bonus and this event bonus money, all at the same time. Holy crap. At the end of the 25 games and Tutorial run, you'd easily be able to buy any Assault Mech you want, Clan or Inner Sphere, and probably outfit it with any weapon load out, to boot. Those other games I mentioned? You'd still be in fairly low-end starter units, preparing yourself for HUNDREDS of additional games if you had plans to unlock the end game content. Just as an example, you can play hundreds of games in one tech tree alone, say the British Medium Tank line in World of Tanks, and still be miles away from the Centurion Action X, the tier X tank at the end of that particular tech branch. As for the accumulation of 'stuff' in MW: O, here is the best advice I can give any newer player coming in, assuming you are C-Bill poor and are willing to invest at least $6.95 into the game for Mech Credits...

• Never buy a new Mech unless it is on sale.
• If you're going to buy a Mech pack, do so during early adopter rewards window.
• Try to avoid selling anything from inventory unless 100% certain you'll never use it, especially engines.
• Buy supply cache keys... 99% of the time the item you get will be worth more to you than buying a C-Bill bundle. Selling them for 50k is an option for those who refuse to invest in the game or people already swimming in C-Bills.
• Pick a tech and stick with it, Clan or Inner Sphere. By doing that, you focus your module upgrades and purchases to mix and match, Mech to Mech. Going Inner Sphere and Clan at the same time early on will only disappoint, as an Inner Sphere weapon module will be unusable on Clan Mechs, and vice versa.
• Play through your 2x XP Mechs if you can swing it. The double rewards add up quick, then you can go back and focus on a Mech you want to work on.
• Take advantage of the great reward weekends and other events PGI runs. Like I said earlier, PGI are very generous to us as a player base when it comes to earned loot and in-game currency.

All in all, we've got it pretty good here. I've practically stopped playing War Thunder and World of Tanks, because their idea of a loyalty reward is some crappy tier II unit, whereas PGI will be giving me three new Mechs and 2 million C-Bills this year, based on my spending habits and play level.

I play all those games and feel they generally also have good events and unlike this game, I never feel short of credits while progressing up their tech trees. Worst case scenerio at the very highest tiers, I might have to grind 3-4 matches on my premium ships every once in a while but here in this game, I feel like if I am not grinding my 30% C-bill bonus mechs each and every match, I am just putting myself further and further behind. Honestly that is another issue in my book. I shouldn't feel like I HAVE to play 30% bonus to C-bill mechs constantly in order to have any chance of keeping up with the C-bills I need. With premium, I should be able to play any mech and never feel short on funds.

[El Bandito]

I limited my mech purchases to high-mounted mechs only. Worked wonders for my C-Bill woes.

[Bill Lumbar]

El Bandito, on 08 October 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

I limited my mech purchases to high-mounted mechs only. Worked wonders for my C-Bill woes.

Pay 2 win? Working as intended?

[El Bandito]

Bill Lumbar, on 08 October 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Pay 2 win? Working as intended?

Most innocent form of P2W. The way I see it, I am contributing not only to my own benefit, but to 11 other's, when I choose to play mechs that are not crap.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 08 October 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Most innocent form of P2W. The way I see it, I am contributing not only to my own benefit, but to 11 other's, when I choose to play mechs that are not crap.

However, you also contribute to the determent of 12 other people.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 08 October 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Most innocent form of P2W. The way I see it, I am contributing not only to my own benefit, but to 11 other's, when I choose to play mechs that are not crap.

You horrible, horrible person.

Did you buy a mechpack?