110 replies to this topic

[Davers]

StaggerCheck, on 09 October 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Armored Warfare require you to unlock vehicles rank by rank before you can purchase them? Isn't that an XP wall to grind through before you can get to the best units?

The problem you face is basically MechWarrior: Online has a system that allowed you access to your favourite Mech, a 90-ton Mauler Assualt. I guess you could say that, were this a different game with a tech tree unlock, you wouldn't have been able to use your coveted Mauler for months, based on where it would most likely be, at the end of a tech tree.

Ok, so you also haven't figured out that you can still play your Mauler as is, while you save up enough C-Bills to purchase your next one. You'll need 43000 more XP to Elite it, which is something I'm sure you'd be keen on. Lucky for you, PGI is running an event right now that will bag you eight million C-bills by the end of it, not counting the C-bills you earn along the way. That should be enough to purchase your second Mauler, no problem.



Granted, PGI is not really good at explaining their tech tree system, even though you must have missed multiple hints within the gameplay tips panel during match start-up, which plainly spell it out for you. Would it be better if 90-ton Mechs were at tier IX, and you had to grind XP for months to get to your favourite Mech?

Good points wasted on another "one and done" poster.

[Mystere]

This is a "Drive by rant" thread. Reported.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Maqi, on 09 October 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

ok, so i am a new player, i bought a Mauler MX90 as my first mech because of Mechcommander nostalgia, i only and exclusively wanna run ballistics weapons on it.
then i went into the 'skills' tab in the main menu and selected the Mauler and it says i cannot progress beyond basic skill bonuses unless i buy two more Maulers.
can someone explain me why?

Yeah, the progression system in this game is ******. It is a cheap, poorly thought out, terribly done system that forces us to spend excessive amounts of XP and money just to grind the exact same mechs.

Yes, that system is stupid as ****, it makes my head hurt thinking about why its so stupid, and that its still a thing. THere really are no words that could quite express how I truly think about that system, and how utterly ******** it is...

[LordKnightFandragon]

StaggerCheck, on 09 October 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Armored Warfare require you to unlock vehicles rank by rank before you can purchase them? Isn't that an XP wall to grind through before you can get to the best units?

You mean by "tier"? Yeah, there is a logical tier progression, but see, this is where it makes sense and is perfectly fine compared to this system.

If we put this same MWO progression to AW, then you would have to buy the M1 and master it, then get the M1 again and master it, then get the M1 for a third time and master it before being able to progress onto the M1A1. As in, instead of spending, by AW math, 6 million for the M1, then grinding it, mastering it and moving on, we would have to spend 18 million and instead of 540,000 Xp, it would be 1.6 million XP playing the EXACT same ******* tank over and over and over. You wanna talk about ********? YEah, its the MWO progression system. There is no logical way for the MWO system to make sense at all.

Its like having to take your driver licence test 3x before finally getting your driver licence....Or having to pay for the same set of groceries at Walmart 3x before being allowed to go home......no, the system is just stupid...

[Navid A1]

Maqi, on 09 October 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

OP

^^
See this.... This is a legit new user experience.
Taking off rose colored glasses... that is all it takes to see the reality.

The skill tree was designed for a 2012 MWO with only 6 mechs and no omnis... just like only 4 mech bays for new accounts.
It is not 2012 closed beta anymore.

[Thunder Child]

Dee Eight, on 09 October 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

They are. You can already do that. I did with two of my rifleman. I just used some of my GXP pool to basic them, sold them, and kept the legend killer.

I'm meaning without owning them. I am aware that you can GXP them if you own them. I have done that more than once on some of the derpier chassis (funnily enough, NOT the 5V. That said, I Mastered it back when JJs were good and hitboxes were broken).

[draiocht]

I'm sure a lot of us have seen this exact same argument
posted in similar fashion before.
Regard that however it's worth.

Under review, but for now...

[mod]Edited thread title to "three-variant skill tree complaint"
for specificity from the original inflammatory title.[/mod]

[Davegt27]

thread not reported lol

carry on

if I had seen a thread like this when I started my be I would not had some many face wrecked drops

[Akhri Mala]

My issue with the skill tree is that it is basically there to provide grind.

It doesn't make logical sense that You get "different" xp on varieties of the same chassis.
I wouldn't have an issue if it was triple the xp needed now, but you could get it all on one chassis.

I have 2 friends I play with, and neither of them has any mech skilled beyond basic.
The cost at their play level is prohibitive.
They cannot afford it in terms of mechbays and c-bills.

The mechbay limit is arguably a pay window.

[Wecx]

Sjorpha, on 09 October 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

Wut? The Kodiak 3 may be the strongest mech in the game, but Mauler MX90 is still amazeballs and the 5AC5 build fills a different niche from the dakka Kodiak with lower DPS but longer range, higher velocity and more pinpoint FLD.

I prefer the MX90 over the Kodiak 3 on sulphur defence in FW for example.

So in FW its a different story because you cant take a KDK3 over a Mauler.
Yeah, i'm talking about QP obviously why would i talk about taking a KDK-3 instead of my MX90 if i was talking about FW

[Felbombling]

Akhri Mala, on 09 October 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

My issue with the skill tree is that it is basically there to provide grind.

It doesn't make logical sense that You get "different" xp on varieties of the same chassis.
I wouldn't have an issue if it was triple the xp needed now, but you could get it all on one chassis.

To make up for lost revenue potential, PGI would probably jack prices by 300%. Would you accept that, as well?

Akhri Mala, on 09 October 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

I have 2 friends I play with, and neither of them has any mech skilled beyond basic.
The cost at their play level is prohibitive.
They cannot afford it in terms of mechbays and c-bills.

Statements like this make me scratch my head. I've got a buddy who used his Cadet Bonus to buy a Hellbringer. He played the crap out of that thing, unlocked the basic tree and was sitting at about 40k XP when he had enough C-Bills to purchase his second Hellbringer. [He tinkers a lot]. When he finished the basics on his other two Hellbringers he had an instant unlocking of the Master skills, because the XP was just sitting there waiting for him. He Mastered the other two Hellbringers and did the same thing to his original to Elite it. Then he used Mech Credits earned during an event to convert the remaining XP on his original Hellbringer to GXP, and unlocked a Module.

I don't know. All these tales of woe about how hard the new player experience is seem to lack something. Like the players doing the complaining have NEVER taken advantage of an event weekend the whole time. It's like they play Tuesday 10:00am to Friday 10:00am or something.

Akhri Mala, on 09 October 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

The mechbay limit is arguably a pay window.

I'd like to see PGI allow a few Mech Bays to be purchased with C-Bills up to about six, then more beyond that cost Mech Credits. That would eliminate some of that pay window, but with earned in-game credit. Other Pay2Play games do something similar.

[Farlayeigh Maerka]

The grinding is real for new players(yep, ESPECIALLY new players) to buy all three variants and master them.

Mastered and unmastered mechs performs quite 'differently', so you are reduced to C-bill grinder, torn

between urges to try out other mechs or keep investing in the unmastered variants of the mechs you own.



Some would say, "Just ignore the mastering thing and try out newer chassis. It might not be a big deal." but

it is really difficult to ignore the unmastered chassis; even Newbies would want to find out how their mechs

perform when it is fully mastered.




The mastering system is 'understandable' in PGI's perspective(marketing thing to urge people to spend cash),

but there must be a way to tone down the frustration that NEW PLAYERS face when they first try out MWO.

Because this skill-tree mastering system, through the psychological pressure it applies, might

delay Newbies from trying out other types of chassis and make them stick to classes or mechs they might pilot

terribly. It really slows down the learning curve of new players.

Edited by Farlayeigh Maerka, 09 October 2016 - 09:19 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

To be honest, I found the grind to get high Tier vehicles in Armored warfare and Star Conflict a lot worse than MWO. All games have their pros and cons, and PGI has a lot to learn from other F2P games.

The current system with expensive, limited mechbays and Paulconomy is probably pretty bad for MWO, but it's a conscious effort to pull in as many whales as possible, while ignoring the teenagers with a disposable income of $50 per year.

[RestosIII]

Tristan Winter, on 09 October 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

To be honest, I found the grind to get high Tier vehicles in Armored warfare and Star Conflict a lot worse than MWO. All games have their pros and cons, and PGI has a lot to learn from other F2P games.

The current system with expensive, limited mechbays and Paulconomy is probably pretty bad for MWO, but it's a conscious effort to pull in as many whales as possible, while ignoring the teenagers with a disposable income of $50 per year.

At least AW doesn't have garage slots that run out. Still, they have an end-game problem as well, but they seem to be actively working to fix that. Haven't played Star Conflict since right when it launched, so I have no clue how it's holding up right now.

[Maqi]

draiocht, on 09 October 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

[mod]Edited thread title to "three-variant skill tree complaint"
for specificity from the original inflammatory title.[/mod]

oh wait so if i call out this colossal massive scam for what it truly is, then my thread title is 'inflammatory'???
and you immeditely go edit it to contain the damage it could actually do by waking up some players and make them realize they are being scammed?
go ******* yourself [Redacted] you and your ******* censorship.
is this what you are paid to do or you do it for free?
******* off

Edited by draiocht, 10 October 2016 - 09:34 AM.
inappropriate language

[Bombast]

Hey, look guys! He came back to have a discussion with us, to openly and honestly debate with the rest of the forum on the accuracy of his initial assertions.

Maqi, on 10 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

oh wait so if i call out this colossal massive scam for what it truly is, then my thread title is 'inflammatory'???
and you immeditely go edit it to contain the damage it could actually do by waking up some players and make them realize they are being scammed?
go ******* yourself [CENSORED] you and your ******* censorship.
is this what you are paid to do or you do it for free?
******* off

...Or not, I guess.

[SpectreHD]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 October 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

You mean by "tier"? Yeah, there is a logical tier progression, but see, this is where it makes sense and is perfectly fine compared to this system.

If we put this same MWO progression to AW, then you would have to buy the M1 and master it, then get the M1 again and master it, then get the M1 for a third time and master it before being able to progress onto the M1A1. As in, instead of spending, by AW math, 6 million for the M1, then grinding it, mastering it and moving on, we would have to spend 18 million and instead of 540,000 Xp, it would be 1.6 million XP playing the EXACT same ******* tank over and over and over. You wanna talk about ********? YEah, its the MWO progression system. There is no logical way for the MWO system to make sense at all.

Its like having to take your driver licence test 3x before finally getting your driver licence....Or having to pay for the same set of groceries at Walmart 3x before being allowed to go home......no, the system is just stupid...

Freaking apples to oranges dude.

For the simple fact you do not need to grind EXP to unlock a mech especially a more expensive chassis like a Mauler nor unlock any preceding mechs to access it. The only pitiful amount of EXP is needed just to unlock all the skills. All of which can be done in a few days.

AW is about unlocking the vehicles to use them. MWO is just the skills.

Heck, just because you have to buy the same chassis, you have to get a different variant. So just because it is the same chassis, it can pretty much be totally different mechs altogether. You want to say a HBK-4G is the same as a HBK-4P?

So your comparison is stupid, sorry to say.

Maqi, on 10 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

oh wait so if i call out this colossal massive scam for what it truly is, then my thread title is 'inflammatory'???
and you immeditely go edit it to contain the damage it could actually do by waking up some players and make them realize they are being scammed?
go ******* yourself [Redacted] you and your ******* censorship.
is this what you are paid to do or you do it for free?
******* off

No one is being scammed here, mate. You want the MX90, you got the MX90. You want to unlock the skills, well, the requirements is to Basic two other variants. Not that difficult. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter? The top skills are for those who are dedicated enough to get them.

This game would be dead if there was nothing to keep players continually playing and that means getting players to play as many mechs as possible.

So I say to you is grow up.

Edited by draiocht, 10 October 2016 - 09:36 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Felbombling]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 October 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

You mean by "tier"? Yeah, there is a logical tier progression, but see, this is where it makes sense and is perfectly fine compared to this system.

If we put this same MWO progression to AW, then you would have to buy the M1 and master it, then get the M1 again and master it, then get the M1 for a third time and master it before being able to progress onto the M1A1. As in, instead of spending, by AW math, 6 million for the M1, then grinding it, mastering it and moving on, we would have to spend 18 million and instead of 540,000 Xp, it would be 1.6 million XP playing the EXACT same ******* tank over and over and over. You wanna talk about ********? YEah, its the MWO progression system. There is no logical way for the MWO system to make sense at all.

Its like having to take your driver licence test 3x before finally getting your driver licence....Or having to pay for the same set of groceries at Walmart 3x before being allowed to go home......no, the system is just stupid...

Thanks for the clarification on tiers, Lord. I have to disagree with you on the analogy, though. In MechWarrior: Online, because there is no tech grind to open up certain units, you wouldn't have to touch the M1 at all. You'd be able to skip right into the M1A1 and work it. I mean, tell me a Mech you aren't able to buy, so long as it is available for C-Bills. You can have a Dire Wolf before your Cadet bonus runs out, in all fairness.

[Felbombling]

Maqi, on 10 October 2016 - 05:29 AM, said:

oh wait so if i call out this colossal massive scam for what it truly is, then my thread title is 'inflammatory'???
and you immeditely go edit it to contain the damage it could actually do by waking up some players and make them realize they are being scammed?
go ******* yourself [Redacted] you and your ******* censorship.
is this what you are paid to do or you do it for free?
******* off

LOL He hasn't even read any of our responses to his OP. How are some of you guys feeling now, after having given this [Redacted] a like for his OP? We've been had, guys! He must work for a competitor or something.

Edited by draiocht, 10 October 2016 - 09:55 AM.
insult, Quote Clean-Up

[Huron Fal]

As I am sure others have pointed out already; this is designed to specifically A: require you to spend more time in game and B: add incentive to buy MC (exp conversion, c-bill packs, premium time etc) to help you level faster. Thats it. Period. This game is "free to play" and will always try to balance time spent vs. money spent.