244 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Ghogiel, on 19 October 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

Well Before I clicked that twitter I was neutral on your wish for MK2... Then I was greeted with>
"When will light mechs learn their job is scout and poke. Not speed run and brawl? Assaults are slow give us better armor for not being... "...able to run when we end up in the wrong place. Or left behind aka team nascar"

Now I hope no one, especially Russ ever listens to your opinion about MWO.

First you took the tweet out of context. I'm tired of hearing bad light pilots ask for buffs, or saying stuff isn't fair. That statement was made in mocking those cries. Your job as a light mech in every mechwarrior game is to scout, backup, harass, and finish of wounded mechs. Not to be some kind of special one man cod unit that can take out everything on the field while being the fastest.

But regardless since when did I ever give you the impression I gave a **** about your support?

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

No, we don't want the Mad Cat MK2. Stop trying to put words in everyone's mouths. I know a fair number of players who want Light mechs to not suck. I also know several who want Medium/Heavy/Assault agility quirks either nerfed or, my personal opinion, removed entirely.

Ok let's add collisions where if you run into something you stop. Then we can remove all agility and get a light mech pack (that very few will buy)

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

First you took the tweet out of context. I'm tired of hearing bad light pilots ask for buffs, or saying stuff isn't fair. That statement was made in mocking those cries. Your job as a light mech in every mechwarrior game is to scout, backup, harass, and finish of wounded mechs. Not to be some kind of special one man cod unit that can take out everything on the field while being the fastest.

But regardless since when did I ever give you the impression I gave a **** about your support?

Oh, bad Light pilots? Lights, who are already the least paying weight class in the game, are apparently only supposed to be allowed to play the least paying role as well? If you got your way, no one would ever play Lights ever again. Why? Because it would take months just to break even on the STOCK price of most Lights in game, let alone the cost of upgrading them. Its not bad Light pilots who are the problem here, its the potato Assault pilots who constantly whine and complain about "Lights OP". Thats why people are asking for buffs for Lights. Not because they are bad, but because they are tired of watching an entire weight class go down the toilet just to make these overweight potatoes feel better about themselves.

Edited by Requiemking, 19 October 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Mad Cat Mk. II adds nothing more to the game than any other 'Mech. The Kodiak is already here, the Marauder IIC will be able to do everything else just as well, and the Mk. II is just going to get its limbs blown to smithereens in ten seconds flat...kind of like the Timberwolf does now, only faster because it's way bigger.

We don't need it, and I personally don't really care about it. Too many fats in the game as it is.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Oh, bad Light pilots? Lights, who are already the least paying weight class in the game, are apparently only supposed to be allowed to play the least paying role as well? If you got your way, no one would ever play Lights ever again. Why? Because it would take months just to break even on the STOCK price of most Lights in game, let alone the cost of upgrading them. Its not bad Light pilots who are the problem here, its the potato Assault pilots who constantly whine and complain about "Lights OP". Thats why people are asking for buffs for Lights. Not because they are bad, but because they are tired of watching an entire weight class go down the toilet just to make these overweight potatoes feel better about themselves.

Where did I say lights are OP? Know your place, I know mine. We are slow and while the general pug plays nascar I get the flank in the assault. If you think you need buffs then I need buffs because assaults already have enough nerfs you seem to forget about. Hoverjets™, hill-climb, and we are the biggest slowest targets on the field.

If I can't run 120+kph while doing work in my assault. Then you can't run 120+kph while being able to deal out the same damage. That is your job as a light. You are not meant to go toe to toe with any assault unless you're using your speed and skill. While I use my armor and ability to hit a smaller fast moving target.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

Where did I say lights are OP? Know your place, I know mine. We are slow and while the general pug plays nascar I get the flank in the assault. If you think you need buffs then I need buffs because assaults already have enough nerfs you seem to forget about. Hoverjets™, hill-climb, and we are the biggest slowest targets on the field.

If I can't run 120+kph while doing work in my assault. Then you can't run 120+kph while being able to deal out the same damage. That is your job as a light. You are not meant to go toe to toe with any assault unless you're using your speed and skill. While I use my armor and ability to hit a smaller fast moving target.

And yet, every single role you described pretty much removes any point to Lights being allowed to fight. Hoverjets? Most of the Assaults that can jump use the incredibly wasteful Class one JJ. Even during the reign of the Poptarts, these were seen as wasteful. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the only Mech in game that uses Class 2 is the Victor. Hill climb? What hills? You seem to forget that these same fat potatoes have had most of the old maps opened up, with ramps added to nearly every area. Biggest, slowest targets? Have you forgotten that, in all but two cases, most of an Assault mech's weight is devoted to firepower. OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET FOCUSED.

[Ghogiel]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

First you took the tweet out of context. I'm tired of hearing bad light pilots ask for buffs, or saying stuff isn't fair. That statement was made in mocking those cries. Your job as a light mech in every mechwarrior game is to scout, backup, harass, and finish of wounded mechs. Not to be some kind of special one man cod unit that can take out everything on the field while being the fastest.

But regardless since when did I ever give you the impression I gave a **** about your support?

1v1 me in lights and we'll see who is bad a bad light pilot.

[Imperius]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Aw Imperius thinks his opinion is actually good and means something... the poor baby doesn't realize though that everything he just said about lights is complete and utter ******* bullshite.

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

And yet, every single role you described pretty much removes any point to Lights being allowed to fight. Hoverjets? Most of the Assaults that can jump use the incredibly wasteful Class one JJ. Even during the reign of the Poptarts, these were seen as wasteful. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the only Mech in game that uses Class 2 is the Victor. Hill climb? What hills? You seem to forget that these same fat potatoes have had most of the old maps opened up, with ramps added to nearly every area. Biggest, slowest targets? Have you forgotten that, in all but two cases, most of an Assault mech's weight is devoted to firepower. OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET FOCUSED.

That is the trade off. Lights are meant to solo lights and support the team. Your speed is what helps you add extra firepower to areas it's needed in.

Sounds like you just want to play call of duty.

[Y E O N N E]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

That is the trade off. Lights are meant to solo lights and support the team. Your speed is what helps you add extra firepower to areas it's needed in.

Sounds like you just want to play call of duty.

Uh...what? No. Lights fighting other Lights is generally a waste of resources. You go watch live competitive matches and you'll find Lights typically only engaging each other when it's a 2 v 1 advantage, otherwise they are doing something else like capping, assassinating, or harassing. They never go toe-to-toe with fresh bigs because they can't; they get immolated every time. Seeing a Light triumph 1 v 1 against fresh, heavier opponents is purely a Quick Play phenomenon.

The only reason Lights are being taken in MWOWC or MRBC is because the rules require it.

[Imperius]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

Uh...what? No. Lights fighting other Lights is generally a waste of resources. You go watch live competitive matches and you'll find Lights typically only engaging each other when it's a 2 v 1 advantage, otherwise they are doing something else like capping, assassinating, or harassing. They never go toe-to-toe with fresh bigs because they can't; they get immolated every time. Seeing a Light triumph 1 v 1 against fresh, heavier opponents is purely a Quick Play phenomenon.

The only reason Lights are being taken in MWOWC or MRBC is because the rules require it.

Funny how they are being used properly in MWOWC...

I don't see where you think it is balanced to have the same ammo and fire power as an assault and be the fastest.

[Y E O N N E]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Funny how they are being used properly in MWOWC...

I don't see where you think it is balanced to have the same ammo and fire power as an assault and be the fastest.

A.) Unless you think six Medium Lasers with bare minimum heat-sinks is the same firepower as an Assault, Lights do not have the same firepower as an Assault. When Lights get big scores, it's because the match was long and the enemy was bad. It's small damage that just adds up, rather than big voracious damage in short, frequent windows.

B.) It's not that simple with MWOWC. They only really harass when the enemy has no weapons to trade back with (see: Spiders at extreme range against opponents without lasers...this is why EmP has a Grasshopper pretty much always on big maps and why 228 got so pressured in the NA Finals) or when the enemy is close to dead. They do this because they can't actually trade at all, because they don't have sufficient agility or armor to juke shots. Assassinating doesn't really happen unless somebody screws up and the only possible logical outcome is a gank, since the opponent isn't stupid. Capping is something fairly unique to Lights, but it's neither universal nor important enough to the game modes to be worth anything when weighting performance.

TL;DR Lights are just trying to occupy themselves while waiting for a push.

C.) What you think Lights should do is irrelevant; the game mechanics determine what they should be. Since the emphasis is pretty much all on combat, they should be capable combatants.

[Imperius]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Mad Cat Mk. II adds nothing more to the game than any other 'Mech. The Kodiak is already here, the Marauder IIC will be able to do everything else just as well, and the Mk. II is just going to get its limbs blown to smithereens in ten seconds flat...kind of like the Timberwolf does now, only faster because it's way bigger.

We don't need it, and I personally don't really care about it. Too many fats in the game as it is.

Do you see me defending why the Mad Cat MK II needs to be in?

I DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A REASON BECAUSE LOOK AT ALL THE DOA MECHS THAT HAVE MADE IT IN BEFORE THE MK II!

I'm not even trying to gain support for the Mad Cat MK II lol. I just say salty posts directed at PGI and you come at me like my opinion has any influence on PGI.

Do you just want to fight me?
Have I offended you in some way?

Because as I have always said I really don't care what people on these forums want to think of me.

You must feel like I am some kind of threat to whatever your cause is.

[Imperius]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Properly is a subjective term, and only you seem to think it is proper for them to act that way.

Once again the words of someone who knows nothing about lights.

I'll humor you this one time.

How are light mechs supposed to play then?

[Tordin]

Much truth, much discuss!

[Imperius]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

A.) Unless you think six Medium Lasers with bare minimum heat-sinks is the same firepower as an Assault, Lights do not have the same firepower as an Assault. When Lights get big scores, it's because the match was long and the enemy was bad. It's small damage that just adds up, rather than big voracious damage in short, frequent windows.


B.) It's not that simple with MWOWC. They only really harass when the enemy has no weapons to trade back with (see: Spiders at extreme range against opponents without lasers...this is why EmP has a Grasshopper pretty much always on big maps and why 228 got so pressured in the NA Finals) or when the enemy is close to dead. They do this because they can't actually trade at all, because they don't have sufficient agility or armor to juke shots. Assassinating doesn't really happen unless somebody screws up and the only possible logical outcome is a gank, since the opponent isn't stupid. Capping is something fairly unique to Lights, but it's neither universal nor important enough to the game modes to be worth anything when weighting performance.

TL;DR Lights are just trying to occupy themselves while waiting for a push.

C.) What you think Lights should do is irrelevant; the game mechanics determine what they should be. Since the emphasis is pretty much all on combat, they should be capable combatants.

Please re-read what I said... Where did I say lights have the firepower of an assault?

My god people just want to argue with me for the sake of arguing.

If you think lights need buffs because the game modes are the problem (which you even stated) then we are done talking.

You need to fix the game modes not the lights they are pretty much what they should be in this game. I'm all for buffing rewards to play your role correctly. Which is not to trade shots with all mechs 1:1 while keeping all the benefits of being a light.

[Imperius]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

As Yeonne says: how the game mechanics determine. As the game is built on combat, they should be able to be combatants.

You don't even know how they should play. You literally are just fighting me to fight me because you have some stalker issues with me.

[Imperius]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

Uh huh whatever feeds your ego buddy.

I am arguing with you because your idea of how they should play is stupid. How they should play is again subjective from person to person, hence why game mechanics should determine this. So why the **** should your opinion matter?

You just said the same thing... Lights don't need buffs because the real issue is the game mode.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 19 October 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

You just said the same thing... Lights don't need buffs because the real issue is the game mode.

Except, its not. You know **** well that there are Lights who are supposed to do exactly the opposite of what you think Lights should be doing, or have you conveniently forgotten that they exist?

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 19 October 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

Except, its not. You know **** well that there are Lights who are supposed to do exactly the opposite of what you think Lights should be doing, or have you conveniently forgotten that they exist?

Besides neither you nor Yeonne Greene have said how they should be played.

Quote

C.) What you think Lights should do is irrelevant; the game mechanics determine what they should be. Since the emphasis is pretty much all on combat, they should be capable combatants.

^This says nothing of how they should be played.

Define capable combatant?

To what?
Against what?

I see lights kill people all the time. I see them get the jump on assaults not paying attention and killing them. So how are they not capable?

[Imperius]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 19 October 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

Or they do need buffs because in the current gamemode they are inadequate. Duh.

That is the wrong way to buff things.

Here, using your logic I will give you an example of how it is wrong.

Let's say it is me and one light left in a match I have medium lasers (for some bad reason on my Dire Wolf) we are 300 each in points the light pilot decides not to engage me and cap. I lose because I never can catch him.

I go to Russ and yell.

"Russ! I just lost a match I think I should have won because I couldn't catch the light mech and get in range to shoot the him! BUFF ASSAULTS speed nao!"

Edited by Imperius, 19 October 2016 - 05:12 PM.