41 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

So... I started thinking about the Supernova-1 variant, and then I compared it to the KDK-1.

Similarities? They both have 4 energy hardpoints in each arm.

The KDK-1 gets a bonus CT energy hardpoint, a shoulder ballistic and 2 missile hardpoints. Based on the geometry, I think its pretty safe to say that the average height of the arm energy hardpoints are higher on the Kodiak. Additionally, the Kodiak can run 70 kph, while the SNV-1 can only go 63, with only 3 engine DHS, compared to 6 for the Kodiak, which also has more armor.

How can we even pretend these will be anywhere close to balanced??? Ignoring the fact that the KDK-1 is probably one of the worst Kodiaks...

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 19 October 2016 - 02:51 PM.

[FupDup]

As it turns out, the Supernova is really the Subparnova.

Comparing it to the Maddy IIC also produces silly results.

[Glaive-]

The only solution is megaquirks

[S 0 L E N Y A]

In a battle where no mech can win, who can win?

The KDK-3, obviously.

[Xmith]

Perhaps a better comparison can be made once the Supernova hits the battlefield. Numbers only at this point can not tell the whole story.

Back in the MW4 MekTek days, I noticed pilots primarily using the Supernova as long range snipers and poptarters. I never saw anyone trying to brawl with em.

[Gas Guzzler]

armyunit, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

The only solution is megaquirks

That's kind of my point. It would be madness to release this mech without megaquirks. But... as we know PGI is frightened by high numbers of energy hardpoints so it will probably be released quirkless while the hero will get structure and agility.

Xmith, on 19 October 2016 - 03:13 PM, said:

Perhaps a better comparison can be made once the Supernova hits the battlefield. Numbers only at this point can not tell the whole story.

In the absence of quirks, its pretty easy to draw a conclusion here.. there is no way the Kodiak loses.

[roboPrancer]

Supernova gets - 80% large laser duration

[Tristan Winter]

I guess this is one of the 9000 reasons why, apparently, nobody wants to buy the Supernova.

To play devil's advocate, though, this is bound to happen more and more if they keep adding more mechs to the game. Not all of them are going to offer something superior, or even something new, compared to existing mechs.

The question is:
Should PGI try to make these Obsolete On Arrival (OOA) mechs different by giving them special quirks, or should they just replace them with even more PGI-invented variants? Seems like every new mech pack contains more PGI-originals than actual canon variants.

Another question is:
Who cares? So many mech packs, so little actual content being delivered, it's hard to get emotionally invested.

[Glaive-]

roboPrancer, on 19 October 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

Supernova gets - 80% large laser duration

Lol, that would bring the duration of the C-ERLL down to 0.3 seconds. And with ED, you can fire three at once, so each arm of the Supernova would be able to put out 33 points of pin-point, raycasted, damage.
Just slap on an additional -80% heat generation on lasers and we're good

Still wouldn't beat the KDK-3, probably.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

armyunit, on 19 October 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Still wouldn't beat the KDK-3, probably.

you cannot escape the truth

[Y E O N N E]

armyunit, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

The only solution is megaquirks

Man, some of the IS 'Mechs are going to need gigaquirks, then...

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

armyunit, on 19 October 2016 - 02:52 PM, said:

The only solution is megaquirks

There is no quirk in the world that is going to replace retractable claws... Thus the kodiak will always be superior!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Why does the supernova has to be better then the kodiak?
Can't we get like.. a clan'mech without power creep for once?

Also, 90 tons vs 100 tons! apples and oranges..

[Y E O N N E]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 19 October 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Why does the supernova has to be better then the kodiak?
Can't we get like.. a clan'mech without power creep for once?

Also, 90 tons vs 100 tons! apples and oranges..

It matters only because a new 'Mech doesn't add variety to upper level play unless it is as good as existing models. That said, it can't be better else it will just replace the previous model and we get power creep.

Also, your user-name and my user-name are a match!

[FupDup]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 19 October 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Why does the supernova has to be better then the kodiak?
Can't we get like.. a clan'mech without power creep for once?

Well, the Subparnova should certainly beat the Kodiak at the very specific role of laser vomit, particularly large lasers. Other roles can go to the Bear or other assaults.

Toha Heavy Industries, on 19 October 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Also, 90 tons vs 100 tons! apples and oranges..

Not really. It's a comparison of a rotten apple to a fresh apple. Both mechs can be built to the same role, except one is a lot better at that same role. Being lighter is not a valid excuse to make a mech be inferior.

That aside, there is an argument to be made that the Kodiak is too strong of a baseline...even outside of the KDK-3.

Regardless of whether we buff the Supernova or nerf the Kodiak, the 100-ton mech should not be objectively superior just "because of reasons."

Edited by FupDup, 19 October 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Tristan Winter, on 19 October 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

I guess this is one of the 9000 reasons why, apparently, nobody wants to buy the Supernova.

To play devil's advocate, though, this is bound to happen more and more if they keep adding more mechs to the game. Not all of them are going to offer something superior, or even something new, compared to existing mechs.

The question is:
Should PGI try to make these Obsolete On Arrival (OOA) mechs different by giving them special quirks, or should they just replace them with even more PGI-invented variants? Seems like every new mech pack contains more PGI-originals than actual canon variants.

Another question is:
Who cares? So many mech packs, so little actual content being delivered, it's hard to get emotionally invested.

Well, they could add mechs that are different but not actually better, instead of just mechs that do the same things just not as well.

I still stand by my opinion that releasing a Kingfisher that is low on firepower for an assault but tanky as **** with ECM would be more interesting than this mech. 70 kph, high energy hardpoints, likely ECM, quirks.. something different.

Toha Heavy Industries, on 19 October 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Why does the supernova has to be better then the kodiak?
Can't we get like.. a clan'mech without power creep for once?

Also, 90 tons vs 100 tons! apples and oranges..

You mean its too much to ask for it to be on par with one of the worst Kodiak variants?

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

FupDup, on 19 October 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Well, the Subparnova should certainly beat the Kodiak at the very specific role of laser vomit, particularly large lasers. Other roles can go to the Bear or other assaults.


Not really. It's a comparison of a rotten apple to a fresh apple. Both mechs can be built to the same role, except one is a lot better at that same role. Being lighter is not a valid excuse to make a mech be inferior.

That aside, there is an argument to be made that the Kodiak is too strong of a baseline...even outside of the KDK-3.

Regardless of whether we buff the Supernova or nerf the Kodiak, the 100-ton mech should not be objectively superior just "because of reasons."

Well a Super Saiyin is objectivelly superior to a Saiyin...

So the Supernova should be objectivelly superior to a Nova because its a Super Nova... But sadly, I do not think this is the case...

ok sorry, I might be too drunk right now... So I dont really know where I am going with this!

Going to hit the submit and hope for the best!

[Navid A1]

FupDup, on 19 October 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Well, the Subparnova should certainly beat the Kodiak at the very specific role of laser vomit, particularly large lasers. Other roles can go to the Bear or other assaults.

Ghost heat says no!
no firing of 3 C-ERLLs for you!

Edited by Navid A1, 19 October 2016 - 04:11 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Navid A1, on 19 October 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Ghost heat says no!
no firing of 3 C-ERLLs for you!

Could always go 8 cERLL and spam 2 cERLL every .5 seconds until you shutdown..

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 October 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

You mean its too much to ask for it to be on par with one of the worst Kodiak variants?

The kodiak lineup is by no means bad. being the "worst" out ouf the lineup doesn't make it bad per se.
I would say that even the worst kodiak has the edge over most other mechs imo.

Navid A1, on 19 October 2016 - 04:10 PM, said:

Ghost heat says no!
no firing of 3 C-ERLLs for you!

That's what i said about quad uac10 ghostheat bug right after i found out the kdk-3 got 2 more ballistic slots for no reason.
I'm pretty sure that.. "IF" there might be a ghostheat bug for 3 c-er large for the supernova. PGI will do their uttermost to fix it (probably right after c-bills release).

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 19 October 2016 - 04:19 PM.