41 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

To make the prime config work, I think it's fair for PGI to add a quirk that basically allow 3 ERLL simul fire. But who am I kidding, once the GH 2.0 come out, everything is going to be F in the A, so nobody really knows what's going to happen in 3 months.

As for KDK1 vs SVN... what kind of coolaid are you drinking? One is 10 tons heaviers, so naturally you expect it to have more armors and firepower.

I wouldn't be surprised that after XL, endo, and MAYBE FF switch, the Supernova probably have WAY MORE free tonnage than KDK. Though with so much free tonnage and not the GH system to back it, hum...

Wait a sec...

Well, let's hope PGI put some serious -heat gen quirk to allow you to spam big energy weapons. Cause 2 LPL + 6 ML with like 20 tons left over is NOT going to cut it.

[Gas Guzzler]

razenWing, on 19 October 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

To make the prime config work, I think it's fair for PGI to add a quirk that basically allow 3 ERLL simul fire. But who am I kidding, once the GH 2.0 come out, everything is going to be F in the A, so nobody really knows what's going to happen in 3 months.

As for KDK1 vs SVN... what kind of coolaid are you drinking? One is 10 tons heaviers, so naturally you expect it to have more armors and firepower.

I wouldn't be surprised that after XL, endo, and MAYBE FF switch, the Supernova probably have WAY MORE free tonnage than KDK. Though with so much free tonnage and not the GH system to back it, hum...

Wait a sec...

Well, let's hope PGI put some serious -heat gen quirk to allow you to spam big energy weapons. Cause 2 LPL + 6 ML with like 20 tons left over is NOT going to cut it.

Huh?

The only point worth contending is that "the Kodiak is 10 tons heavier so it should have identical hardpoints and then a ballistic and 2 missiles and an extra Energy hardpoint". That isn't a good reason, especially when you consider that the Kodiak can move 70 kph and the Supernova can only go 63...

[Gas Guzzler]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 19 October 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

The kodiak lineup is by no means bad. being the "worst" out ouf the lineup doesn't make it bad per se.
I would say that even the worst kodiak has the edge over most other mechs imo.

Not even close. The KDK-1 wouldn't even be in my Top 10 assaults...

1. KDK-3
2. Mauler MX90
3. Battlemaster-2C
4. Banshee-3M
5. Sleipnir
6. Mauler 1R
7. KDK-2
8. AS7-S
9. One of the other Battlemasters?
10. Dire Wolf (dakka)

In no particular order aside from the KDK-3 of course.. I would take all of those over the KDK-1.

[Y E O N N E]

I feel like the KDK4 should have a place in that list...

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 October 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Not even close. The KDK-1 wouldn't even be in my Top 10 assaults...

1. KDK-3
2. Mauler MX90
3. Battlemaster-2C
4. Banshee-3M
5. Sleipnir
6. Mauler 1R
7. KDK-2
8. AS7-S
9. One of the other Battlemasters?
10. Dire Wolf (dakka)

In no particular order aside from the KDK-3 of course.. I would take all of those over the KDK-1.

Im so happy the BLR made the list! But I am scared that this list will incure the wrath of the Nerfclear Missle Overlord...

Please PGI, do not touch my battlemasters! I beg of you!

[Thunder Child]

razenWing, on 19 October 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

To make the prime config work, I think it's fair for PGI to add a quirk that basically allow 3 ERLL simul fire. But who am I kidding, once the GH 2.0 come out, everything is going to be F in the A, so nobody really knows what's going to happen in 3 months.

As for KDK1 vs SVN... what kind of coolaid are you drinking? One is 10 tons heaviers, so naturally you expect it to have more armors and firepower.

I wouldn't be surprised that after XL, endo, and MAYBE FF switch, the Supernova probably have WAY MORE free tonnage than KDK. Though with so much free tonnage and not the GH system to back it, hum...

Wait a sec...

Well, let's hope PGI put some serious -heat gen quirk to allow you to spam big energy weapons. Cause 2 LPL + 6 ML with like 20 tons left over is NOT going to cut it.

Well, I'm sure a 325 cStd Engine will soak up some of that tonnage..... maybe, a level 7 TC, and CAP as well? AMS with 5 tons of ammo?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 19 October 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Im so happy the BLR made the list! But I am scared that this list will incure the wrath of the Nerfclear Missle Overlord...

Please PGI, do not touch my battlemasters! I beg of you!

As if PGI ever read anything here...

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

I feel like the KDK4 should have a place in that list...

Probably.

[Baulven]

FupDup, on 19 October 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

Well, the Subparnova should certainly beat the Kodiak at the very specific role of laser vomit, particularly large lasers. Other roles can go to the Bear or other assaults.


Not really. It's a comparison of a rotten apple to a fresh apple. Both mechs can be built to the same role, except one is a lot better at that same role. Being lighter is not a valid excuse to make a mech be inferior.

That aside, there is an argument to be made that the Kodiak is too strong of a baseline...even outside of the KDK-3.

Regardless of whether we buff the Supernova or nerf the Kodiak, the 100-ton mech should not be objectively superior just "because of reasons."

KODIAKs outside of the three didn't even place in the top 10 for weight of the world data sets, based on their performance in the Kodiak only event. The chassis is fine except for the three.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Thunder Child, on 19 October 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Well, I'm sure a 325 cStd Engine will soak up some of that tonnage..... maybe, a level 7 TC, and CAP as well? AMS with 5 tons of ammo?

Why would you put a 325 STD engine in a clan battlemech? *sees you mentioning AMS with 5 tons of ammo*

Oh wait, you're joking... I hope.

If hoverjets didn't absolutely suck, the Supernova would have a place as a pretty decent poptart with a few PPCs. But the jump jet nerf and ghost heat from firing 2 PPCs at once crushes that anyway, same with long duration lasers.

The only thing that would make the Supernova stand up to a Kodiak now would be quirks on the level of the Summoner, but for ER lasers, or just lasers in general.

A Bane/Kraken would have at least brought something kinda interesting to the table without quirks.

[Naduk]

Hey just ignore everything that will make the SN good

Very squat standing height
Thin profile
Arm gaps between torso


But you know what
The saying the SN won't compare to the Kodiak is just stupid
NOTHING COMPARES to the Kodiak

You all know this is true
What you should be saying is

Wow look even new mechs coming out are outclassed by the Kodiak
Let's take the Kodiak down a peg or two
The world tournament should have people saying the same thing
Why do we see nothing but Kodiak's

It's stale , it's time to do something about them

[CK16]

Many have pointed out the Super Nova was meh, only people wanting it for nostalgia OR to try to trump the Mk II (which btw would be better to compare to the KDK once it arrives, it is another fast agile assault).

Supernova will be interesting, but its not a tier 1 mech. Was expecting a War Hammer IIC honestly before this one.

[Gas Guzzler]

Naduk, on 19 October 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

Hey just ignore everything that will make the SN good

Very squat standing height
Thin profile
Arm gaps between torso


But you know what
The saying the SN won't compare to the Kodiak is just stupid
NOTHING COMPARES to the Kodiak

You all know this is true
What you should be saying is

Wow look even new mechs coming out are outclassed by the Kodiak
Let's take the Kodiak down a peg or two
The world tournament should have people saying the same thing
Why do we see nothing but Kodiak's

It's stale , it's time to do something about them

You are missing the point. The KDK-1 is mediocre. The Supernova is less capable than a mediocre mech based on hardpoints and speed alone. I'm not saying it should be as good as a KDK-3, but KDK-1 is a very low bar, and it doesn't even meet that.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 October 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

You are missing the point. The KDK-1 is mediocre. The Supernova is less capable than a mediocre mech based on hardpoints and speed alone. I'm not saying it should be as good as a KDK-3, but KDK-1 is a very low bar, and it doesn't even meet that.

I remember the days where I was skilling up my kdk-1... Those days were hell...

Who would want to go through xp-ing a mech worse then the kdk-1? That just sounds like torture!!!

[Naduk]

Judging any Mech or item based off only select attributes will selectively make anything look bad

The locust based on weight alone is the worst thing ever made
The whole Mech is lighter than single weapon systems of other much
Man , that thing must be pure garbage ...right ?....right ?


The super Nova will be much lower total profile than a Kodiak
It will have huge gaps in its profile so shots will often sail under its armpits
It will be harder to hit in general

It's 10 tons lighter
So while it's not going to have the raw speed of a kdk , it's likely to have faster twist and yaw rates
Most of its guns are arm mounted so taking advantage of those traits will make the SN very powerful

The argument your making is exactly the same as a storm crow vs Nova
Just up a few weight classes

And yet the Nova is a very popular mech and is often seen slaying stormcrows

The SN will have its issues to overcome like anything else
But comparison with the absolute best mech in the game is a setup for failure

[Gas Guzzler]

Naduk, on 19 October 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

Judging any Mech or item based off only select attributes will selectively make anything look bad

The locust based on weight alone is the worst thing ever made
The whole Mech is lighter than single weapon systems of other much
Man , that thing must be pure garbage ...right ?....right ?


The super Nova will be much lower total profile than a Kodiak
It will have huge gaps in its profile so shots will often sail under its armpits
It will be harder to hit in general

It's 10 tons lighter
So while it's not going to have the raw speed of a kdk , it's likely to have faster twist and yaw rates
Most of its guns are arm mounted so taking advantage of those traits will make the SN very powerful

The argument your making is exactly the same as a storm crow vs Nova
Just up a few weight classes

And yet the Nova is a very popular mech and is often seen slaying stormcrows

The SN will have its issues to overcome like anything else
But comparison with the absolute best mech in the game is a setup for failure

It will only have faster twist/turn rates if it gets quirks, otherwise its twist/turn rates will be slower, proportional to walking speed, because twist/turn rates vary linearly with walking speed (tonnage is irrelevant).

The KDK-1 is NOT the best mech in the game. Did you miss that the first time? Its FAR down the list, and embraces mediocrity.

[Davers]

For a year I have been complaining about how PGI keeps churning out mechs with no plan, no niches being filled, no interest in what a given mech will bring to the game, or change in the meta.

The more mechs that come out the more apparent it will be to everyone.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tristan Winter, on 19 October 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

The question is:
Should PGI try to make these Obsolete On Arrival (OOA) mechs different by giving them special quirks, or should they just replace them with even more PGI-invented variants? Seems like every new mech pack contains more PGI-originals than actual canon variants.

Part of the problem is how many variants they are now producing for new mechs, especially ones that "break" the mold of the original design. While some mechs like the Mad IIC were never really consistent with loadouts, you can make them semi-flexible but at the same time you still want to confine them so they don't obsolete or overlap with mechs they really shouldn't.

Honestly it just comes down to PGI not thinking through a mech's place in the game and what they think it should provide role wise that something doesn't already provide. Instead we get them solely trying to capitalize on nostalgia to get them money they can siphon without actually adding anything of value to the game (like variety or flavor).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 October 2016 - 08:06 PM.

[Glaive-]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 October 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Part of the problem is how many variants they are now producing for new mechs, especially ones that "break" the mold of the original design. While some mechs like the Mad IIC were never really consistent with loadouts, you can make them semi-flexible but at the same time you still want to confine them so they don't obsolete or overlap with mechs they really shouldn't.

Honestly it just comes down to PGI not thinking through a mech's place in the game and what they think it should provide role wise that something doesn't already provide. Instead we get them solely trying to capitalize on nostalgia to get them money they can siphon without actually adding anything of value to the game (like variety or flavor).

Agreed. Variant inflation is starting to get somewhat egregious at this point.

[627]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 October 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

It will only have faster twist/turn rates if it gets quirks, otherwise its twist/turn rates will be slower, proportional to walking speed, because twist/turn rates vary linearly with walking speed (tonnage is irrelevant).

The KDK-1 is NOT the best mech in the game. Did you miss that the first time? Its FAR down the list, and embraces mediocrity.

It is not the best assault variant in the game, that is right. But by no means is the KDK-1 on the bottom of the assault list. You have a 100ton Clan mech with an idiotproof C-XL400 engine and you can mount a crapton of weapons.

You don't even need to work hard to get a good build. When those first arrived I just throw 8 MPL on it to see how it will work, purely for lulz. And tell you what, I never changed that build, ever. Even the KDK-2 which imo is the worst variant from the first 3 is easy going.
Sure, you won't beat a KDK-3, the most OP mech we have right now, but the rest of the kodiaks are fast, agile, tanky and powerful.

And the KDK-1 will beat that Soupnova all day as it does with every highlander be it IS or IIC.