32 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am just wondering if anyone else is experiencing extreme disappointment with the Huntsman?

My first impression of the mech is that it is slow and ponderous for a 50 ton medium mech. It has very poor acceleration and deceleration and loses alot of speed on any slope. Turn speed seems a bit sluggish as well. In general I feel like I am piloting a heavy mech, not a medium. By comparison, neither the Nova or the Stormcrow seems to have this issue and both are very lithe and agile. Also the Nova is the exact same weight with the exact same engine so I am not really understanding why the agility feels so much different. Keep in mind that I am talking agility not speed as I know the Stormcrow is alot faster, however, I am just taking about how snappy it responds to the throttle and turns.

Now on the other hand, not being as agile as those two mechs isn't necessarily a deal break as long as the mech is tanky but the Huntsman is not tanky either. The CT just melts on it and while I am a bit surprised how well the side torsos are holding up and you can do a fair job of spreading damage, the CT is so bad, it almost feels broken.

So what I am finding is the mech doesn't have the agility to poke and run and it doesn't have the hitboxes to tank either which leave it what???

To give you a comparison on what I am talking about, I built a Huntsman to mimic my favorite Stormcrow build thinking that if the build was strong on the Stormcrow it would be strong on the Huntsman. In general my build on the Stormcrow is 6 MPL with 21 DHS. On the Huntsman I came up with 6 MPL with 19 DHS so it is a bit hotter but overall very close. However my average damage per match on my Stormcrow is 396, my average damage on the Huntsman is only 219. That is a pretty massive difference in performance. Now sure the Stormcrow has about a 19 kph speed advantage but the Huntman should be able to offset that due to the 5 JJs so I was expecting similar performance.

Overall I have determined that the difference is due to agility and hitboxes. Where the Stromcrow has very tanky hitboxes and very strong agility that allows it to dictate the battle, the Huntman just can't move good enough dictate the battle which means it often has to sit there and take what it throw a it. Then when you consider the very bad CT hitbox, well the Huntsman just can't compete.

That being the case, I have started building my Huntsman with a more ranged focus so it can hide behind the front line and poke around but I can't help but be massively disappointed at being forced to that sort of playstyle.

Personally I think the Huntsman is very much in need of a buff in its agility so that it has similar agility to the Nova. Second, something needs to be done about the CT. Either it needs adjusted so it isn't so much of a damage sponge or the internal structure needs to be increased fairly significantly. Finally I find the arms seem to fall off very easy so a structure quirk there would be nice as well. Get all that handled and the Huntsman can be a solid mech. Without it, at best it is going to be mediocre.

[Tordin]

I think the only thing it needs are a slight CT buff, otherwise it rolls dmg pretty well.

[vibrant]

Regarding your average damage in SCR vs Huntsman, do remember that the event going on means you are actively being targeted for the Kill/KMDD. I would imagine it'd be hard to beat an "equivalent" mech under these circumstances.

Edited by vibrant, 19 October 2016 - 03:03 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

vibrant, on 19 October 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

Regarding your average damage in SCR vs Huntsman, do remember that the event going on means you are actively being targeted for the Kill/KMDD. I would imagine it'd be hard to beat an "equivalent" mech under these circumstances.

Ok I will give you that much but I have over 200 matches in the Stormcrow and there have been many, many times while piloting the Stromcrow that I have been in sticky situations and the focus of the entire enemy team and there is a night and day difference in the amount of incoming fire that the Stormcrow can handle and what the Huntsman can handle. Also I just don't have the escape potential in the Huntsman like I do with the Stormcrow. I hit any slope in the Huntsman and I am bleeding speed like a pig. Try to turn and run and it seems like I am just standing there getting hammered while the Stormcrow would have turn and been gone in seconds. Try to peek and I find myself wrestling with Huntsman to get it stopped and moving backward into cover again. The accel and decel is horrible on the Huntsman. This goes for the Nova too. The Nova, a mech with the same weight and engine can run circles around the Huntsman.

So yeah, I honestly expect things to improve once the event is over but I can absolutely tell it isn't going to improve that much, the Huntsman has too many things going against it. Also I wasn't expecting the Huntsman to match my Stormcrow for various reasons including the event but I was expecting the gap to be much close, maybe averaging 300 damage vs the 400 damage in my Crow. 200-ish damage is just horrible though.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 19 October 2016 - 04:48 PM.

[vibrant]

Viktor Drake, on 19 October 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

<snip>

Well said. It makes me wonder what the design intentions of it is... given the name, you would imagine it'd be somewhat nimble and fast.

[Xocoyol Zaraoul]

vibrant, on 19 October 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

Well said. It makes me wonder what the design intentions of it is

Realistically, it was a neat name the devs came up with and a neat look.

Fluff wise, it was designed to be the premier medium Omnimech of Clan Novacat, a homegrown design they could mass produce to fill in gaps in the Touman when it came to 50 tonners (As the Nova isn't up to the task).

The Nova in contrast while spread evenly among the clans is still relatively uncommon, as it was the first Omimech that Clan Hells Horses produced, and Clan Ghost Bear discontinued production immediately after they captured Tokasha Mechworks in 2921 (So assuming it's 3054 atm, newest Nova is 133 years old).


TLDR: It was designed to be a workhouse medium 'mech.

Edited by Xocoyol Zaraoul, 19 October 2016 - 03:36 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah it doesn't have agility quirks like the Nova, and it has a smaller engine than the Stormcrow which many people INSISTED was not a downside whatsoever. I don't have mine leveled yet so I am reserving judgement on the agility, but it definitely feels less responsive than other options.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 19 October 2016 - 03:37 PM, said:

Yeah it doesn't have agility quirks like the Nova, and it has a smaller engine than the Stormcrow which many people INSISTED was not a downside whatsoever. I don't have mine leveled yet so I am reserving judgement on the agility, but it definitely feels less responsive than other options.

It depends on the context... the Nova needed all those quirks pre and post scalings and people PUGs haven't really figured out or recalled its history of changes... I would kill for running a 280XL or 300XL on a 50 tonner except that honor currently is limited to the Failbucket (Trebuchet) and a few other variants (Centurion-D).

There's a reason that virtually every medium (with maybe the Stormcrow being the exception) needs a quirk... it's to make sure some Heavy isn't going to murder it quickly.

[El Bandito]

Can I say "I told you so?" Cause I told you so. Specifically in the thread below.

http://mwomercs.com/...nt-worth-a-buy/

Edited by El Bandito, 19 October 2016 - 04:49 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 19 October 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Can I say "I told you so?" Cause I told you so. Specifically in the thread below.

http://mwomercs.com/...nt-worth-a-buy/

It could be worse... you could've bought a Linebacker (the reality will set in having seen the Gargles, the initial version of the Ice Ferret (one that had no quirks))...

[Angel of Annihilation]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

It depends on the context... the Nova needed all those quirks pre and post scalings and people PUGs haven't really figured out or recalled its history of changes... I would kill for running a 280XL or 300XL on a 50 tonner except that honor currently is limited to the Failbucket (Trebuchet) and a few other variants (Centurion-D).

There's a reason that virtually every medium (with maybe the Stormcrow being the exception) needs a quirk... it's to make sure some Heavy isn't going to murder it quickly.

The Huntsman would actually be ok without the agility if it could tank a bit. However its CT is way to squishy as it is now. As far as the history of changes to the Nova, I am aware of them for the most part however you would have thought that PGI would have been aware of them as well and NOT made the same mistake with the Huntsman.

Now I will grant you the Huntsman is more versatile than the Nova but that doesn't change the simple fact that the Nova is really good at something, enough so that I can't see a reason to take the Huntsman over the Nova. Yeah you might be limited to laser boating on the Nova but if you want to win, your going to generally take the best mech despite lack of versatility.

[Gen82]

I dunno. I haven't been having too hard of a time with it. I've been playing it a little like an asym Hunchback IIC (orig hunchback?). But I've only played 1 build so far, not mastered and not a whole lot.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

There's a reason that virtually every medium (with maybe the Stormcrow being the exception) needs a quirk... it's to make sure some Heavy isn't going to murder it quickly.

HBK-IIC is an exception, as well. Another Clan mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 October 2016 - 05:27 PM.

[Agent1190]

We've all been spoiled by the arbitrary Accel/Decel, Twist/Yaw quirks that so many other Mchs have that Mechs without those quirks feel wrong. Night Gyr had the same first impressions.

Too early to tell - no one has figured out the go-to build yet.

[Deathlike]

Viktor Drake, on 19 October 2016 - 05:02 PM, said:

The Huntsman would actually be ok without the agility if it could tank a bit. However its CT is way to squishy as it is now. As far as the history of changes to the Nova, I am aware of them for the most part however you would have thought that PGI would have been aware of them as well and NOT made the same mistake with the Huntsman.

You are giving PGI far too much credit.

Quote

Now I will grant you the Huntsman is more versatile than the Nova but that doesn't change the simple fact that the Nova is really good at something, enough so that I can't see a reason to take the Huntsman over the Nova. Yeah you might be limited to laser boating on the Nova but if you want to win, your going to generally take the best mech despite lack of versatility.

Lemme quote something you said in the linked thread that El Bandito put out...

Viktor Drake, on 17 October 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

As for competitive play, it isn't representative of the gameplay that 90% or more of us deal with on a daily basis and holds very little relevance for the bulk of players. That being the case, the more important criteria might be which of the two mechs is more PUG friendly.

It's not always about competitive play, but the metrics used by competitive players on mechs usually is more telling, and these things translate all the way to regular play.

You can scoff on it all you want, but analyzing it on a competitive level tells you a lot... and as I said to you before... in a different thread... these things do matter and you can't simply write it off... whether you feel a Kodiak-3 or a Huntsman is balanced or not is determined greatly by comp play (even though comp play can't really use the new mechs for accessibility reasons - it can still be figured out long before they are available for C-bills).

Edited by Deathlike, 19 October 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[SaltyStrudel]

Its a bit more sluggish than the other mediums yeah, but I find I can easily mount enough firepower to outweigh its speed---in most scenarios. Its certainly not perfect, but its a nice balance for me and the fact that I can make it for pretty much any build makes it even more appealing for me.

And if you have the hero, a build I would suggest is 4 asrm6s(4 tons of ammo I believe) and 3 MedPulse. Certainly not a super optimized build, but I've been enjoying it.

[LesIzmore]

Still wondering why it does not have an ECM option if is a "hunting" mech. Also being actively targeted when I am first spotted in a Huntsman makes me think I am just going to get the one match I need in and play other mechs so getting the skills filled in will have to wait until after the contest ends.

[Y E O N N E]

You know...all of these drawbacks pretty well describe a certain other Medium 'Mech that many people loved to hate. Spelled like "Blackjack."

Only, the Blackjack can't twist very well. Or bring anywhere near as many guns. But it's got some nifty energy range quirks...only good for LPL or PPCs.

Huntsman sounds like it will be solid if not stellar.

[Clownwarlord]

I disagree with you mostly, check out my other post here:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5443029

Also ...


More DOA threads will be coming.

[Naduk]

From going up against them they seem tanky enough

As for your first impression and analysis
Remember that you have no basic or elite unlocks
No 2x bonus to basic movement skills

If you want a really fair comparison with the 6 pulse build , drop some heat sinks from the storm crow to match the huntsman

I believe you will see a average damage drop to closely match what the hunt was getting
Heat has a bigger impact on a build that you're giving credit for

From what I've seen them doing so far it looks to me like they are bringing to many weapon systems or not enough

I'd be interested to hear how a build that starts ranged and moves in to finish ppl of in close
Something like ppc or lpl followed by spl+mg+target comp