137 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

Simple question:

Do you feel mechs in MWO handle too poorly or too well? In other words, do you feel that the mechs are too slow and lumbering and clumsy to make the game fun, or do you feel that the mechs are generally far too responsive and they don't feel like the big behemoths you want them to be? Or... are they just right?

You could also divide it in by weight class, of course. You could say that most light mechs, like the Locust, are far too nimble and agile, but that most assault mechs, like the Dire Wolf, are too slow for this game. Or, for example, that light mechs and mediums are agile enough, but heavy mechs and assault mechs need to be slower.

Or maybe you don't feel the game correctly calculates agility based on engine size and tonnage, even.

What say you?

[Juodas Varnas]

Too quick in general.
I blame the "GIVE EVERYTHING AGILITY QUIRKS" approach to the "balancing".

The moronic skill-system with the accel/decel, turn-speed, etc bonuses that get DOUBLED later on, is just icing on the cake.

[Requiemking]

Light mechs feel fine on the agility front for me, hence why I mostly pilot them. Assaults and Heavies, though, are too nimble thanks to bloated agility quirks. those need to be toned down or removed.

[TercieI]

Depends, thanks to engines driving agility. Kodiaks are way too agile, DWFs probably not quite agile enough. Engines need to be decoupled from agility. Took me a long time to come to believe this, but CL380+ KDKs are just silly and I'm convinced now. A good baseline would be to give every mech the agility it would have with a 300 rating engine.

[Bombast]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 October 2016 - 05:54 AM, said:

Too quick in general.

I'm guessing this is more your speed?

[DaZur]

IMHO too agile...

That said, under the present mechanics with PPD and FLD, TTK would be FUBAR.

Hot damn, I managed to squeeze in 5 acronyms in a single post!

Edited by DaZur, 27 October 2016 - 06:50 AM.

[process]

Too agile conceptually, but the game mechanics are such that lights going sub 120 kph and assaults going 48 kph would get murdered.

[Battlemaster56]

I think heavies and assaults are too agile for their respective weight class, their can be a few who can nicely agile and focus on speed rather than sheer firepower (Linebacker comes to mind).

Lights and Mediums are fine in the agility department, since that's their greatest tool.

Remove or seriously tone down agility quirks unless the mech is in dire need for some.

[mogs01gt]

too agile but making them less agile simply supports the hide and poke game play.

[Charronn]

Lol have you piloted a Night Gyr?
I have piloted assault mechs that would run rings round it.

Edited by Charronn, 27 October 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

some assaults are not agile enough. Any mech designed to go 3/5 hexes moves like a sloth... If the annihilator ever comes out, it will be DoA.

[Johnny Z]

Bombast, on 27 October 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

I'm guessing this is more your speed?

Sim ftw.

[Pastor Priest]

Yes and no. On one hand, mechs are supposed to have humanoid movement. You know, the ability to crouch or kneel, raise and lower arms, etc. At least, that's what I recall. From that aspect, they are far from agile, and that limits what we can do to some extent. Offering these abilities would likely make more chassis viable, as high hard points are the name of the game right now.

When looking at speed and handling though, yes, the heavies and assaults are are flipping ballerinas compared to what they should be. Now, i'm not stating a light or medium should be able to take them out olo with ease. But, a very good light pilot should have a shot if he plays his cards right. Right now, all but a handfull of assaults can maneuver well enough to track most lights.

So, I guess I want to see more flexibility, less agility.

[rolly]

I'd be up for making the operation of mechs more complex, not just blanket agility or none at all because agility alone won't reflect the nuances of what makes mechs so cool for us.

Certainly I don't want my mecha doing Gundam style/Macross space flight. Nor do I want slow stompy 40K Titans. I always felt that BT/MWO had big clunky stompy mechs that take skill to operate. A good example of this is the Ryoken/Stormcrow or the Phoenix Hawk. Their movement profile is pretty agile and in the right hands the piloting is a dream and responsive but at the same time, piloting poorly will get you horribly killed.

What I am advocating for is more complexity. It should take skill to climb up a slope or into water, hence the entire aspect of Piloting Skill rolls. Using HANDS and arms for more than just protecting your torso. Other older MW games allowed you to look over your shoulder and fire the arm mounted weapons. You can do this in MWO but only barely. Hand actuators are useless if not to pad criticals. Taking out individual actuators does nothing.

Heck we can't even go prone. But being a good mechwarrior should not just be about damage, KMDD, or kills. But about Piloting skill. It shouldn't just be about unlocking Skill tree buffs. Turning your mech around is NOT a skill. Stopping is not a skill. Stopping a mech on pavement or ice without skidding that would be a skill.

But sorry I digress...

But given the glacial pace of things, and the demands of the ADD CoD generation, I doubt this would ever come into play. People want things now, and dumbed down easy.

Edited by rolly, 27 October 2016 - 07:02 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

On the one hand, I think the bigger 'Mechs are too agile.

On the other hand, if they were less agile, they would kill each other much too quickly.

Lights and mediums are a mixed bag. Locust, Lynx, Shadow Cat, Storm Crow are, for example, where they ought to be. Some others, like the Blackjack, Ice Ferret, Commando, and Firestarter are not.

[DaZur]

Just for clarity speed and agility is not the same thing...

Speed = Mechs ability to go from stationary to a give max speed.
Agility = Mechs ability to transition from one direction to another.

Right now, too many mechs top-speed / engine caps allow them to cross-over / mitigate other classes. Why pilot a light mech for speed if I can configure a medium to operate as similar speeds and more firepower? Why pilot a medium when I can configure a heavy to operate as similar speeds and more firepower? Same with heavies to assaults...

In order for classes to really matter beyond armor values and hard-points, they really should not be able to cross over AND speed and agility should be separate from one another and not directly tied to engines but more so to either modules or quirks.

That said... There ARE mechs that are designed with purposeful intent to cross class performance (Charger for example) and those should by default inherit that neuance.

IMHO...

[Pastor Priest]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 October 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

On the one hand, I think the bigger 'Mechs are too agile.

On the other hand, if they were less agile, they would kill each other much too quickly.

Lights and mediums are a mixed bag. Locust, Lynx, Shadow Cat, Storm Crow are, for example, where they ought to be. Some others, like the Blackjack, Ice Ferret, Commando, and Firestarter are not.

Unfortunately, your first point harkens to a different, and arguably bigger, issue. High PPFLD due to convergence and high heat caps makes TTK too high.

[Steve Pryde]

Compare a Dire Wolf with a Kodiak and u know there is something wrong. Mechs are normally not supposed to be more agile with a bigger engine. Faster yes, but not more agile.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

DaZur, on 27 October 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Just for clarity speed and agility is not the same thing...

Speed = Mechs ability to go from stationary to a give max speed.
Agility = Mechs ability to transition from one direction to another.

Right now, too many mechs top-speed / engine caps allow them to cross-over / mitigate other classes. Why pilot a light mech for speed if I can configure a medium to operate as similar speeds and more firepower? Why pilot a medium when I can configure a heavy to operate as similar speeds and more firepower? Same with heavies to assaults...

In order for classes to really matter beyond armor values and hard-points, they really should not be able to cross over AND speed and agility should be separate from one another and not directly tied to engines but more so to either modules or quirks.

I was under the impression that each weight class had its own accel/decel profile... So even if you could get an assault mech to be the same speed as a fast heavy, the assault mech would still be less agile...

[Davegt27]

the idea of speed and agility are relative terms

so what I mean by that is on the testing grounds the slowest Mech works fine being a slow lumbering beast

but you put that same slow Mech in game and its so slow it cant defend its self and just becomes a big target


I would balance the speed and agility by weight class

the test for balance is can you track Mechs as they circle, you want the lower class Mech to stay just out of the kill zone

so for example a shadow hawk (55 ton) could just stay with a locust
this makes the shadow hawk pilot feel like his Mech is not totally useless but also lets the Locust pilot live (if he/she is good)

this would be the agility balance you need in the game
the agility balance is a bit off in this game

you want the higher weight class Mechs to either have a chance or at least feel like they have a chance in a fight
if you don't you will soon stop using that Mech

the Huntsman is so slow (or has so slow agility it cant get out of its own way)
the Huntsman has size and armor of a medium but has the agility of a heavy Mech
this can be a death sentence on the battlefield

hope this makes sense