63 replies to this topic

[qeurul]

Hello,

let me get some forewords first to get this topic going.

The Kodiak balance issue was brought again to daylight as we watched the regional finals unfold. The only limitation to 'Mech selection was that teams needed to have two 'Mechs from each weight class, aka. 2/2/2/2 rule.

All of the other weight classes had at least some variety of what 'Mechs and which variants were chosen depending on the scenario and styles of gameplay.

But guess what? In every single round the every single assault 'Mech was not only Kodiak, but the KDK-3 variant!

I don't know about you, but in my opinion that cast some serious shadow on whether Kodiak is well balanced, since it seems to be the ultimate all-a-round-no-brainer solution for every situation in highest tier of competitive gameplay.


This shadow is further enhanced in solo-queue as well: I frankly find Kodiak boring to play, since it is too damn good. In most cased you can just delete most people with unfathomable UAC burst damage.

So to drive my point, I wanted to ask you what is your "worst" Kodiak play? Meaning that you got some so lame-***-high damage done, it wasn't even close to fun anymore.



KDK-3: 2x UAC5, 2x UAC10, TC1. Some 20 ammo left total.

EDIT: chanced topic to relate more clearly to only just KDK-3 variant.

Edited by qeurul, 21 October 2016 - 04:00 AM.

[Baulven]

THE KODIAK IS NOT THE PROBLEM THE KODIAK THREE IS THE PROBLEM! Please stop trying to get the entire CHASSIS nerfed again. The three need reigned in, and I am unsure how to do that behind geometry changes.

Please for the love of God stop trying to nerf a chassis into the ground.

Edited by Baulven, 21 October 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[qeurul]

Baulven, on 21 October 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

THE KODIAK IS NOT THE PROBLEM THE KODIAK THREE IS THE PROBLEM! Please stop trying to get the entire CHASSIS nerfed again. The three need reigned in, and I am unsure how to do that behind geometry changes.

Please for the love of God stop trying to nerf a chassis into the ground.

Fair (and mine) point exactly, I'm sorry I was not clear enough in my post. The KDK-3 is the only problem, all of the other variants fit in nicely balance wise.

[El Bandito]

Hmm, too many KDK-3 1000 damage games to remember but I did save this screenshot cause the match score was lucky 777. One weapon group, one mouse button to press, victory. Yawn.



Other guys didn't even come close.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[Belacose]

If the KDK-3 got nerfed into the ground then which mech would we go after next?

I don't mind seeing them in most games. Most of the pilots don't seem that great and thus that's why they play them.

Hopefully they'll never give them negative quirks, but wouldn't be a huge shock if the +15 CT structure went bye bye some day.

The other variants should be left alone. IMO.

[El Bandito]

Belacose, on 21 October 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

If the KDK-3 got nerfed into the ground then which mech would we go after next?

I don't mind seeing them in most games. Most of the pilots don't seem that great and thus that's why they play them.

Hopefully they'll never give them negative quirks, but wouldn't be a huge shock if the +15 CT structure went bye bye some day.

The other variants should be left alone. IMO.

No one said anything about nerfing the KDK-3 to the ground. If PGI nerf them to the level of Mauler, I'd be plenty happy. Not only the +15 CT structure, but also the arm and leg +5 structure quirks need to be removed. And then give it a very limited torso twist arc, similar to that of a Dire Whale.

Even then, I fear it won't be enough, but it is a right start.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 04:21 AM.

[Baulven]

El Bandito, on 21 October 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

No one said anything about nerfing the KDK-3 to the ground. If PGI nerf them to the level of Mauler, I'd be plenty happy. Not only the +15 CT structure, but also the arm and leg +5 structure quirks need to be removed. And then give it a very limited torso twist arc, similar to that of a Dire Whale.

Even then, I fear it won't be enough, but it is a right start.

The dire wolf should have a better torso twist arc then it has. Making all clan 100ton mechs light fodder is not a good plan.

[Dee Eight]

Except...it is balanced when everyone uses it...its balanced against every other player also using it on the other team. Too achieve 1000+ damage it in, you have to have idiots stand there and take that damage on the other team. More often than not I see KDK-3s put in the lowest scores on a 12v12 QP game. A couple weeks ago, i took 15 end match screen caps to see what mechs were actually being played the most by people. So out of 360 mechs there were five KDK-3s and their damage totals were 502, 327, 787, 415 and 536. I have an end match saved from the Night Gyr leaderboard where I scored 1,062 damage with my Prime(S). There was a KDK-3 on our winning team in that game. He'd died at 468 damage. He was the top damage in the charlie lance but the bravo lance I was part of did most of the damage and killing that game. I got 3 kills / 5 assists. A RFL-3N...3 kills 6 assists, 502 damage. An HBR-Prime 1 kill, 8 assists, 465 damage. Just those three mechs did 500 damage MORE than the other 9 mechs of our team combined. But ohhh noo.... sky is falling.... KDK-3s are the anti-christ....

Edited by Dee Eight, 21 October 2016 - 04:54 AM.

[pyrocomp]

qeurul, on 21 October 2016 - 03:52 AM, said:

KDK-3: 2x UAC5, 2x UAC10, TC1. Some 20 ammo left total.

EDIT: chanced topic to relate more clearly to only just KDK-3 variant.

Yes, that was definately an overpoweredness of the KDK-3 KGC-0000 and not the enemy team that made everything from parading in front of me the whole match to atacking strictly one by one obeing some weird movie baddies honour code.

4xLRM-5+A + 3xERLL

So, please do present not a single screenshot, but an average stat on damage done and KMDDs with a metrics from some other assault mech for comparision.

EDIT: have a KDK-3, while it is good, really good, I haven't reached my DWF tops in it yet, while averages are consistently better on some 50-70 dmg.

Edited by pyrocomp, 21 October 2016 - 06:37 AM.

[El Bandito]

pyrocomp, on 21 October 2016 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yes, that was definately an overpoweredness of the KDK-3 KGC-0000 and not the enemy team that made everything from parading in front of me the whole match to atacking strictly one by one obeing some weird movie baddies honour code.

3xLRM-5+A + 3xERLL

So, please do present not a single screenshot, but an average stat on damage done and KMDDs with a metrics from some other assault mech for comparision.

EASILY DONE.



Solo-q only. KDK-3 is bloody OP. All matches played after KDK-3 was nerfed.


Now compare that to my most tryhard IS assaults in the Solo-Q. Not even a contest.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Maybe its just you're a better player than other Tier 1s you're dropping against ?

In terms of Kodiaks, my best win and kill ratios have come in the KDK-2, and the most damage in my Spirit Bear. My BLR-1S is far and away leading my assaults in terms of damage though.

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 21 October 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

Except...it is balanced when everyone uses it...its balanced against every other player also using it on the other team. Too achieve 1000+ damage it in, you have to have idiots stand there and take that damage on the other team. More often than not I see KDK-3s put in the lowest scores on a 12v12 QP game. A couple weeks ago, i took 15 end match screen caps to see what mechs were actually being played the most by people. So out of 360 mechs there were five KDK-3s and their damage totals were 502, 327, 787, 415 and 536. I have an end match saved from the Night Gyr leaderboard where I scored 1,062 damage with my Prime(S). There was a KDK-3 on our winning team in that game. He'd died at 468 damage. He was the top damage in the charlie lance but the bravo lance I was part of did most of the damage and killing that game. I got 3 kills / 5 assists. A RFL-3N...3 kills 6 assists, 502 damage. An HBR-Prime 1 kill, 8 assists, 465 damage. Just those three mechs did 500 damage MORE than the other 9 mechs of our team combined. But ohhh noo.... sky is falling.... KDK-3s are the anti-christ....

Bad players do bad.

Good players do good.

If you're using it wrong, it's not the good player's fault for maximizing its potential. In this case, the KDK-3 is doing more work than the alternatives when people have a clue.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 October 2016 - 05:40 AM.

[Mcgral18]

I did enjoy the SupaHunchDakkaBear greatly

8 Solo Kills and 1500 damage from this one
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=4nS6sPGFMK0

It's not my highest damage, but I think it was 10 KMDD overall as well.
It singlehandedly killed almost the entire enemy team...but I forgot to bring the 11th ton of ammo


It's less effective in that config now, but the PokeBear is no less beastly, just puts out less damage

[Snowbluff]

I run Dakka. I sometimes do really well, sometime get focused down and die before doing anything. I get 1000 damage games, but that just means Dakka is ineffecient damage/kill. Pokebear is technically better,

I've only been killed by one Dakkabear.

[pyrocomp]

El Bandito, on 21 October 2016 - 05:05 AM, said:

EASILY DONE.



Solo-q only. KDK-3 is bloody OP. All matches played after KDK-3 was nerfed.


Now compare that to my most tryhard IS assaults in the Solo-Q. Not even a contest.

Ok. Now that is a point. A single point on a chart to verify hypothesis of KDK-3 being OP.
If, and only if and when we will have consistent number of pilots with the same picture (e.g. by far better results in KDK-3 than in any other assault, preferably 100-tonners) then we can accurately try to draw conclusions.
By the way, how the KDK-3 in your hands is doing comparing to other KDKs and to DWF (specifically Dakka ones with low mounts)? What about AS7 and KGC (different builds ans styles)?
Might be the case of you being reaaaly good with this type of mechs, e.g. HBK-IIC also being far better than other 50-tonners.
There are many explanations to give for a signle match and for a singe pilot. Overall chassis performance can be evaluated only over the large set of matches played by large set of pilots.

[El Bandito]

pyrocomp, on 21 October 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

Ok. Now that is a point. A single point on a chart to verify hypothesis of KDK-3 being OP.
If, and only if and when we will have consistent number of pilots with the same picture (e.g. by far better results in KDK-3 than in any other assault, preferably 100-tonners) then we can accurately try to draw conclusions.
By the way, how the KDK-3 in your hands is doing comparing to other KDKs and to DWF (specifically Dakka ones with low mounts)?

I lived and breathed Dakka Whale for an entire year, during 2015. My Dakka Whale was so powerful in some matches that even in defeat I could do 1000+ damage. Yet its score is far below that of the KDK-3. You know why?



Dire Whale is only situationally OP. The stars had to align for it to truly shine. Compared to that, Kodiak-3 is consistently OP. It has none of Dire Whale's chief weaknesses--namely speed and low mounts. As a Dire Whale pilot for so long, I understand it perfectly.

That's why KDK-3 needs nerfs.

[Scout Derek]

the chassis is not the problem, but the variant as others are saying. so, let's do an example.

Let's put a Kodiak -1 Vs a Kodiak -3?

how about the 2vs3? 4vs3? how about 5vs3?

which has better DPS, and FLD? which has higher mounts, and which one can dissipate heat better? If you can figure out the answer, you will be surprised.

that the other Kodiak's don't even come close to the other one. I own a 3 myself; it absolutely ruins teams if I'm given the chance, more so if they come at me one at a time.

twice throughout five matches I saw a guy in his Catapult. both times one volley of quad tens into his side torso, died immediately due to having a XL.

and I feel bad about doing that to him.

Edited by Scout Derek, 21 October 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[TLBFestus]

Sorry, but I'm going the "other" way.

I've been absolutely CRUSHED in my KDK3 multiple times, being the first killed and getting less than 200 damage on multiple occasions. The latest time was when that rat b@stard NOVAKAINE (joke!) was on the other team and warned them about my (non-existent) AWESOMENESS and they teamed up and ganked me asap. Score that game, about 180.

Truth be told I"m not much better in the KDK3 than I am in any other mech. Sometimes I'm the dog, other times the hydrant.

One of the things I have noticed in the Kodiaks are the pretty limited field of view from the cockpit and it seems to get me in trouble, usually by me getting hung up on corners, edges, etc. Still...it's got to be OP because I have had some of my best matches in it.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

This thread contains more vintage screenshots from the 1960's than a woodstock display at a museum.

Let's see some recent scores.

Roll out your KDK-3's. I for one am still not convinced they're OP.

[qeurul]

You might remember this Weight of the World event a few months back:
https://mwomercs.com...?t=201608weight

I was able to pull out some really good metrics out of it to excel, which I later used to pinpoint my hero-pack purchases

I don't have the time now, but I will post tomorrow the metrics by weight class, with illustrative pie-charts

EDIT: just saw let last post on top. My score is from Wednesday.

Edited by qeurul, 21 October 2016 - 08:25 AM.