63 replies to this topic

[pyrocomp]

El Bandito, on 21 October 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

I lived and breathed Dakka Whale for an entire year, during 2015. My Dakka Whale was so powerful in some matches that even in defeat I could do 1000+ damage. Yet its score is far below that of the KDK-3. You know why?



Dire Whale is only situationally OP. The stars had to align for it to truly shine. Compared to that, Kodiak-3 is consistently OP. It has none of Dire Whale's chief weaknesses--namely speed and low mounts. As a Dire Whale pilot for so long, I understand it perfectly.

That's why KDK-3 needs nerfs.

Same story. Piloted DWFs for more than a year (but mostly TwinGauss build, Dakka is more "damaging") and have 605 dmg on average. A recently bought KDK-3 has 680 dmg on average, but starts are wonky as the number of matches played are significantly low. At any rate, I see some drawbacks on KDK like relatively wide CT and bigger profile making this mech much less tanky. So the play style matters much.
And really, buff DWF, why nerf KDK?

[WildeKarde]

Well just looking at my Kodiak 3 it only averages 400 damage per game. I feel that I tend to get focussed a lot on games.

As ratio it's on par with my LRM timberwolf both damage per game and K/D.

You might say the dire wolf is less capable due to being slower but that' situational. If you happen to come round the corner to either a Kodiak or dakka dire wolf then it's going to be brutal. Both can pull a lot of damage.

On the other hand if they get caught out then both can be punished for low damage.

[Maqi]

you deserve to be permabanned just for owning a kodiak 3
**** you and **** your cancer *** broken mech

[C E Dwyer]

Maqi, on 21 October 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

you deserve to be permabanned just for owning a kodiak 3
**** you and **** your cancer *** broken mech

Time to increase your medication Sir !

[LordNothing]

they have nerfed a lot of things to try to put the 3 in its place. an entire weapons system for example. when all they needed to do was add a negative quirk or two for ultra 10s, and maybe 5s. timby still has its neg quirks, so i have no problem putting them in the 3. at least that way you dont ruin the whole chassis and any other mech with uac10s. i think we are long overdue for a change up in meta. my money is on 8x uac2 bane wannabe dires.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 October 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[El Bandito]

pyrocomp, on 21 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Same story. Piloted DWFs for more than a year (but mostly TwinGauss build, Dakka is more "damaging") and have 605 dmg on average. A recently bought KDK-3 has 680 dmg on average, but starts are wonky as the number of matches played are significantly low. At any rate, I see some drawbacks on KDK like relatively wide CT and bigger profile making this mech much less tanky. So the play style matters much.
And really, buff DWF, why nerf KDK?

Because KDK-3 should not set the bar for any other mechs. Buffing mechs to KDK-3 level might mean TTK will become ridiculously short. Might as well play Counter-Strike at that point.

And mechs that weren't buffed to KDK-3 level will be too weak in comparison. Nay, there is no need to buff mechs to KDK-3 level, when only a single variant can be nerfed instead.

[Cancer Warrior]

Baulven, on 21 October 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

The dire wolf should have a better torso twist arc then it has. Making all clan 100ton mechs light fodder is not a good plan.

I 2nd this. It's going to get "Victor nerfed" like the Dire sooner or later, but if they kill it's twist, then they damn well better kill the Atlas as well.

Edited by Cancer Warrior, 21 October 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[Zergling]

Another bit of evidence:


The Kodiak's average score in that leaderboard was over 10% more than the next highest mech. That definitely suggests a balance problem.

pyrocomp, on 21 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

And really, buff DWF, why nerf KDK?

As El Bandito said, buffing mechs like that will lead to TTK problems.

Further, the DWF doesn't need buffs, because it is still an excellent mech. It only looks bad in comparison to the KDK-3.
The KDK-3 is the balance problem that needs fixing, not the DWF.

Edited by Zergling, 21 October 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[El Bandito]

Cancer Warrior, on 21 October 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

I 2nd this. It's going to get "Victor nerfed" like the Dire sooner or later, but if they kill it's twist, then they damn well better kill the Atlas as well.

Dire Wolf got "Victor nerfed"? Seriously? Do you even know what you are talking about? Current Direwolf is far from obsolete, unlike the Victor.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 07:07 PM.

[Cancer Warrior]

El Bandito, on 21 October 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

Dire Wolf got "Victor nerfed"? Seriously? Do you even know what you are talking about? Current Direwolf is far from obsolete, unlike the Victor.

The Dire has issues dealing with light's due to it's twisting speed/amount that got nerfed some time back. Of course pilot's like you don't have that problem. I look up to you and bishop, but I will disagree with you on this issue. Anyways I've said all I wish to, good luck on the battlefield!

[El Bandito]

Cancer Warrior, on 21 October 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

The Dire has issues dealing with light's due to it's twisting speed/amount that got nerfed some time back. Of course pilot's like you don't have that problem. I look up to you and bishop, but I will disagree with you on this issue. Anyways I've said all I wish to, good luck on the battlefield!

Assaults with low engine cap, such as the Whale and Mauler do have issues dealing against fast moving Lights, but those Assaults have incredible firepower to compensate that. Which is why Dire Whale is considered above average mech, even with its turtle like mobility. KDK-3 is an exception, with its very lethal loadout, combined with very fast speed for an Assault. Which is why I have written dozens of posts telling people that it needs to be nerfed.

Good luck on the battlefield to you as well.

Baulven, on 21 October 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

The dire wolf should have a better torso twist arc then it has. Making all clan 100ton mechs light fodder is not a good plan.

1. Lights desperately need a role in this game anyway. I am fine with having them to hunt high powered but low mobility Assaults.

2. I am completely fine with increasing Dire Whale's twist arc, as it has other pressing issues.

3. On the other hand, limiting KDK-3's twist arc to mere 60 degrees still will not make it anything less than a top tier mech.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 08:05 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Zergling, on 21 October 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

Another bit of evidence:
The Kodiak's average score in that leaderboard was over 10% more than the next highest mech. That definitely suggests a balance problem.

Actually, isn't this mostly based on damage done?

Too wit: Dakkabears combined with the popularity of KDK3 for being a "metamech" would inflate the score. Combined with the larger sample size of "flavor of the month," and the fact that only the best games were kept (only best 10, right?), the data moot.

1) Dakka Bears are damage/kill inefficient, inflating the score with impressive but meaningless damage.
2) Pokebears are piloted by good mech pilots, who inflate the scores via skill.

I would like real data for the KDK3 specifically, if available. I think Kodiak shouldn't have quirks on principal, but I don't think it'll need nerfing beyond that and Power Draw.

Edited by Snowbluff, 21 October 2016 - 08:00 PM.

[Davegt27]

I sort of have a problem with threads like this

could the OP post up his stats

I hardly use my KDK-3 and I hardly ever been killed by a KDK-3

I don't have a problem with DW's either even back in 2014 when I was new

the Mechs are part of the game if you cant accept that find another game
stop trying to maneuver the game as you see fit

[El Bandito]

Davegt27, on 21 October 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

I sort of have a problem with threads like this

could the OP post up his stats

I hardly use my KDK-3 and I hardly ever been killed by a KDK-3

I don't have a problem with DW's either even back in 2014 when I was new

the Mechs are part of the game if you cant accept that find another game
stop trying to maneuver the game as you see fit

Proper balancing should also be part of the game. I am piloting the KDK-3, and it is OP compared to all Assaults I have driven before, and I have been maining Assaults since 2012. As for stats, I have posted it.

TBF, there are lots of potatoes who drive the KDK-3, and they usually have no idea how to handle Assault mechs in general.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 October 2016 - 09:31 PM.

[Davegt27]

is it balancing or politics?

what if 100 people got together to change the game and started a campaign of posts
say about Tag or ECM would that be fair to the thousands of other players?

we would then have to revert to a voting system and when we do that the game would be out of the control of the developers

its a slippery slop

there a lot of things I don't like about the game but if I was allowed to change the game it would not be PGI's game it would be David's game

my stats (68 matches and I haven't used the Mech in a month)
KODIAK KDK-3 68 37 30 1.23 46 44 1.05 22,594 86,627 07:17:13

[El Bandito]

Davegt27, on 21 October 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

is it balancing or politics?

what if 100 people got together to change the game and started a campaign of posts
say about Tag or ECM would that be fair to the thousands of other players?

we would then have to revert to a voting system and when we do that the game would be out of the control of the developers

its a slippery slop

You are taking it way out of context. The KDK-3 has been deemed to be an outlier by both IS and Clan pilots, through event stats, through comp tourneys. It is a no-brainer.

But hey, if PGI is not gonna nerf the OP KDK-3, I'll keep using it to pad my stats. I'm sure that will wonderfully reduce the meager MWO population, since many players are fed up with the mech.

[Random Carnage]

Zergling, on 21 October 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

Another bit of evidence:

The Kodiak's average score in that leaderboard was over 10% more than the next highest mech. That definitely suggests a balance problem.

As El Bandito said, buffing mechs like that will lead to TTK problems.

Further, the DWF doesn't need buffs, because it is still an excellent mech. It only looks bad in comparison to the KDK-3.
The KDK-3 is the balance problem that needs fixing, not the DWF.

/sigh

During the KDK leader-board events you had a lot of slow moving barn door targets being piloted by potatoes that could be farmed for scores not realistic once the events were over and normality resumed. That the difference is only 10% in light of this is remarkable.

I note that you don't compare tonnage averaged results to look at the locust and cheeto in comparison which are ranked 2 and 3 respectively tonne for tonne, and they achieved this most likely during events that were saturated with tiny very fast moving targets with little capacity for farming damage.

Apples and oranges.

[Dee Eight]

I'm sorry but Kodiak scores shouldn't be compared to all assault mechs. Any mech should only be compared to another mech of the same weight. Thus locusts have no comparison at all, and Kodiaks should only be compared to the KCG, DWF and AS7.

[Mcgral18]

Dee Eight, on 21 October 2016 - 10:47 PM, said:

I'm sorry but Kodiak scores shouldn't be compared to all assault mechs. Any mech should only be compared to another mech of the same weight. Thus locusts have no comparison at all, and Kodiaks should only be compared to the KCG, DWF and AS7.

They all take the same mechbay

[qeurul]

Random Carnage, on 21 October 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

/sigh

During the KDK leader-board events you had a lot of slow moving barn door targets being piloted by potatoes that could be farmed for scores not realistic once the events were over and normality resumed. That the difference is only 10% in light of this is remarkable.

I note that you don't compare tonnage averaged results to look at the locust and cheeto in comparison which are ranked 2 and 3 respectively tonne for tonne, and they achieved this most likely during events that were saturated with tiny very fast moving targets with little capacity for farming damage.

Apples and oranges.

I would love to hear your comments on regional finalists' assault 'Mech selections. Would you care to give it a try to wiggle out of this one, that the KDK-3 was a no-brainer for every single one of them?

PS: thanks to the Zergling I no longer feel the need to send my charts, you did a wonderful job with the heatmaps!