301 replies to this topic

[Duke Nedo]

Mystere, on 27 October 2016 - 10:28 AM, said:

So, PGI can integrate GH in the HUD and make it more consistent. They did not have to build a new mechanic and discourage mixed builds even more.

Who said they should discourage mixed builds? A new mechanic could be useful tho, if done right.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAYLEET, on 27 October 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

The KD or any other mech belong in another thread. We are not trying to balance mech with a ghost heat revamp, we(me at least) are trying to put the game in a better place. Balance pass need to be done on their own. I dont know which one need to happen first but at the pace things have been moving we're lucky to have one by the end of next year and i would take anything now over nothing. In the mean time, happy Alpha Warrior Online.

I just don't see any other mech being a problem, "Alpha Warrior Online" or not. MechWarrior has always been about alphas, and there has never in a single MechWarrior game been a mechanic in place to limit the amount of damage output at once. Yes, the Kodiak-3 can melt things very quickly and easily.. but that doesn't mean there is an issue with the rest of the game.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

There is no evidence that proves any one aspect is directly to blame.

The only evidence that is actually objective is that:
1) the game has consistently lost players, and
2) every proposed system that would change the game from the state it's consistently held has been cancelled.

That isn't objective, because it ignores existing problems that may have also contributed to the loss of players, you are treating correlation as causation.

[DAYLEET]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

I just don't see any other mech being a problem, "Alpha Warrior Online" or not. MechWarrior has always been about alphas, and there has never in a single MechWarrior game been a mechanic in place to limit the amount of damage output at once. Yes, the Kodiak-3 can melt things very quickly and easily.. but that doesn't mean there is an issue with the rest of the game.

The past is what you look at to improve not set a maximum to achieve. What it did in the past i dont care. The KD is just the latest offender, its been like this for 2 years. Right now, i cant talk about individual mech balance, or rather i dont want to, the MM will put more assault on one side, or give all the strong one to the same side. Cant make much balance when the MM cant even make good teams. The game itself can be improve though.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

How can you call me a vocal minority when more people agree with me, than agree with you?

If I went to any location with a large percentage of a vocal minority, it would always appear more agreed with them than not...

You're really good at non-points.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

Maybe its because these game changing systems aren't implemented properly?

They weren't implemented at all, they were cancelled. Whether they would have been good or bad for the game cannot be determined.

We DO know the effects of not implementing the one however.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

Trying a system that has bad side effects shouldn't just be passed through for the sake of change, that would be a huge error on PGI's part.

Seeing as the only options at this time are ED or the current system, the choice is either:
Change nothing, and watch nothing be changed.
Change something, observe effects.

And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects that have resulted in continual player decline.

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

So stop acting like Energy Draw was great and its just a handful of us screaming we don't like it convincing PGI to drop it. There were issues with it, just because you choose not to see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

1) Didn't suggest energy draw was "great".
2) Didn't suggest you were "screaming".
3) Didn't suggest there were no issues with it.

Next non-points?

Bud Crue, on 27 October 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

1) Ummm...Russ tweeted last month that MWO has seen a gradual increase in players over the summer. Our subjective evidence to the contrary be damned.

1) I don't think you know what subjective means. The word you're looking for is "objective", because it doesn't rely on opinions and is instead simply a graph that reports the number of people playing a game over a time line in which no core systems were changed.

2) A tweet from russ containing nothing but "we gained players" shows nothing other than he can spell the sentence. How many did we gain? How many are playing through the stand alone client? How many were playing through stand alone before? That is not data. That's called a rumor.


And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 27 October 2016 - 12:11 PM.

[Scout Derek]

meanwhile pgi removes finalist packs just a little earlier ago...

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 27 October 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

That isn't objective, because it ignores existing problems that may have also contributed to the loss of players, you are treating correlation as causation.

1) You should probably look up objective.

2) Yes, existing problems in the game that are not being changed caused the loss of players... that's the point. Nice job following along.

3) If it makes you feel better to pretend that something other than the game is responsible for people not playing, go right ahead and do so.

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 27 October 2016 - 12:10 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Game is getting old and stagnant, but god forbid mechanics of the game get changed. Priceless.
OK so there were some flaws to the bandaid to cover the bandaid of GH, but damn if it doesn't seem the moment something other than new chassis, all hell breaks loose. I thought there were some novel concepts of ED and supported the concept,not because it switched up what builds could work, but more had the potential to change the gameplay.

Like if someone's precious meta boss build is gonna be affected, they threaten they will straight up leave the game. Really? Maybe try adapting,. Sure, fine go, you reek of piss and stale cigarettes any ways. I mean, your wallets closed in protest anyway, not that it matters to me anyways, just cracks me up when I see any declaration like that on here. Like who the **** are you anyways really when it comes down to it. (Queue I'm a customer and have a say on the product I want; you sure do, just like I have a say on what I think seems idiotic at best)

Wow, I'm not normally this caustic. I just miss the more interesting posts that have less cancerous blech

[Bud Crue]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

If I went to any location with a large percentage of a vocal minority, it would always appear more agreed with them than not...

You're really good at non-points.



They weren't implemented at all, they were cancelled. Whether they would have been good or bad for the game cannot be determined.

We DO know the effects of not implementing the one however.



Seeing as the only options at this time are ED or the current system, the choice is either:
Change nothing, and watch nothing be changed.
Change something, observe effects.

And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects that have resulted in continual player decline.



1) Didn't suggest energy draw was "great".
2) Didn't suggest you were "screaming".
3) Didn't suggest there were no issues with it.

Next non-points?



1) I don't think you know what subjective means. The word you're looking for is "objective", because it doesn't rely on opinions and is instead simply a graph that reports the number of people playing.

2) A tweet from russ containing nothing but "we gained players" shows nothing other than he can spell the sentence. How many did we gain? How many are playing through the stand alone client? How many were playing through stand alone before? That is not data. That's called a rumor.


And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects.

I know exactly what subjective is and you are illustrating it. The FACT is that you, like I have no clue what population numbers are. The objective evidence based on leaderboard stats is that we have 30K or so people playing. My objective, empirical evidence is that there is about 300 people playing at any given time. The objective reality I expect lies somewhere in the middle, but that is impossible to know so peoples biases get in the way of making actual objective statements on this and thus a subjective view results...like one saying population numbers are constantly declining.

As to the existing system, of course it has bad side effects. I don't know many who "like" Ghost Heat, But ED in its current iteration has far more negatives(objectively).

Edit: Objectively speaking: PGI has decided this, neither your opinion or mine matter for squat. You don't like that they did this? Take it up with their presumed objective data showing that there were issues with ED.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 October 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[Mole]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

3) If it makes you feel better to pretend that something other than the game is responsible for people not playing, go right ahead and do so.

[Mcgral18]

JackalBeast, on 27 October 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Game is getting old and stagnant, but god forbid mechanics of the game get changed. Priceless.

Now I've got to ask you:

Why not do Super Simple Stuff™, like changing a 0.8 to a 1.0, or something that doesn't involve designing a completely new system?



The Cryhards are a strange bunch

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Bud Crue, on 27 October 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

The FACT is that you, like I have no clue what population numbers are.

The only objective evidence we do have shows a continual decline.

Theory: Player base is declining.
Evidence: Steam charts
Counter-Evidence: A tweet with no actual data contained in it, from a person that lies to his customers when it serves his agenda.
Conclusion: Player base is declining.

If PGI releases hard player data for the stand alone client, the conclusion will either change or stay the same.

That's how logic works

Edited by Ex Atlas Overlord, 27 October 2016 - 12:20 PM.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

DaZur, on 27 October 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

I'd love to discuss the alt-account ballot stuffing and comp-group fraternization inflation but I honestly don't have the breath to waste...

Oh I wonder how the Kodiak beat my beloved?

Mcgral18, on 27 October 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Oh, don't worry


That's being announced at MechCon as the December Grabdeal


Calling it now

I hope you're right at the same time I have no hope anymore. Is that weird?

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 27 October 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

meanwhile pgi removes finalist packs just a little earlier ago...

This is in 2 hours.

[Bud Crue]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

The only objective evidence we do have shows a continual decline.

Theory: Player base is declining.
Evidence: Steam charts
Counter-Evidence: A tweet with no actual data contained in it.
Conclusion: Player base is declining.

If PGI releases hard player data for the stand alone client, the conclusion will either change or stay the same.

That's how logic works

Steam charts...that's your evidence? I'd explain how trying to reach conclusions based on incomplete data affects outcomes but I know you don't care.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Bud Crue, on 27 October 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Steam charts...that's your evidence? I'd explain how trying to reach conclusions based on incomplete data affects outcomes but I know you don't care.

Thank you for supplying counter evidenc..... oh wait. N/m.

[Bud Crue]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Thank you for supplying counter evidenc..... oh wait. N/m.

I dis. Leader board stats. Look em up.

[Mcgral18]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

Thank you for supplying counter evidenc..... oh wait. N/m.

As if your argument is any better

The decline is due to the game itself, nothing else
Steam dropouts from the poorly received launch, and bad NPE

[Gas Guzzler]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 27 October 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

If I went to any location with a large percentage of a vocal minority, it would always appear more agreed with them than not...

You're really good at non-points.



They weren't implemented at all, they were cancelled. Whether they would have been good or bad for the game cannot be determined.

We DO know the effects of not implementing the one however.



Seeing as the only options at this time are ED or the current system, the choice is either:
Change nothing, and watch nothing be changed.
Change something, observe effects.

And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects that have resulted in continual player decline.



1) Didn't suggest energy draw was "great".
2) Didn't suggest you were "screaming".
3) Didn't suggest there were no issues with it.

Next non-points?



1) I don't think you know what subjective means. The word you're looking for is "objective", because it doesn't rely on opinions and is instead simply a graph that reports the number of people playing a game over a time line in which no core systems were changed.

2) A tweet from russ containing nothing but "we gained players" shows nothing other than he can spell the sentence. How many did we gain? How many are playing through the stand alone client? How many were playing through stand alone before? That is not data. That's called a rumor.


And yet, you suggest keeping a system with proven bad side effects.

So essentially you know nothing about Energy Draw, but want to try it anyway to see if steam charts go up? And what then? What if they go down at a faster rate? Is PGI going to withdraw a big feature that they pushed live? I seriously doubt it.

Instead, why not address real issues like balance (Energy Draw doesn't address this, we know because we tested it), content (game modes), and a real, working, good, Faction play? THAT is what will actually bring people to the game, and keep people around.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 27 October 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

As if your argument is any better

The decline is due to the game itself, nothing else
Steam dropouts from the poorly received launch, and bad NPE

It's the work of RNGesus! He (RNGesus) told me so!

All must pray to the alter of RNGesus, for he will absolve you of your LRM sins!