55 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

When is there going to be any sanity in what people are facing.

Not only are the gates all open so that there can be no mediums and no lights in a game these days, but the tonnage variation is disgusting.

Just finished a game with my alt.

Both sides had three assaults side A had Zeus, Victor, Awesome, side B had KDK-3 Atlas D-DC, Direwolf.

This kind of imbalance went all through the sides if it wasn't gross disparity between weight side B ended up with better mechs, Timberwolf against Orion. Only in one mech was there any parity and that was both sides shared a Rifleman.
It's getting rather stupid

[Davers]

Just for clarification, there isn't a forum rule that there must always be a MM thread on the front page.

[Wintersdark]

Never, because it's not a coding issue, it's a population issue. Unless they decide that MASSIVELY longer waits for matches for everyone is acceptable (and maybe even then) matches are going to remain highly random.

[Tristan Winter]

It's definitely a population issue, but would also help if PGI actually had monthly balance passes, or at least made some half-hearted attempts at fixing the Victor, Awesome, Zeus and Highlander so they're not complete garbage compared to Kodiaks.

Edited by Tristan Winter, 29 October 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Mystere]

Well, I've had it for today. Too many Skirmish matches and so I just invoked my "3 Skirmish drops and I am out for the day" rule.

It's good too, especially because I was done with the event two days ago. Now I can set up my HOTAS and start trying Star Citizen with their free offer that lasts until tomorrow.

Wintersdark, on 29 October 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Never, because it's not a coding issue, it's a population issue. Unless they decide that MASSIVELY longer waits for matches for everyone is acceptable (and maybe even then) matches are going to remain highly random.

Which is why they should just junk the tier, PSR, and voting systems and just do random drops for team, map and game mode.

Edited by Mystere, 29 October 2016 - 02:33 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Part of the issue is that the Matchmaker compiles a team of 12 players and then compiles another team to match them. It does not simply compile 24 players and then divide them up evenly according to tonnage.

[Wintersdark]

Prosperity Park, on 29 October 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Part of the issue is that the Matchmaker compiles a team of 12 players and then compiles another team to match them. It does not simply compile 24 players and then divide them up evenly according to tonnage.

If they did, then there'd be a larger PSR delta. Not that it really makes any difference, or that tonnage differences really have that much impact either.

*shrugs*

[Cy Mitchell]

I started the event with a win/loss of 17-2 all in solo quick play. I ended the event with a 21-12 win/loss. I do not know what that means except that it all seems to even out in the end no matter how bad MM seems to be. All you can do is play to best of your ability and take the games as they come.

Even if they could balance everything, that would not necessarily make for good, close games. If one teams communicates and works together and the other does not then it is most likely still going to be a rollstomp.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 29 October 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Never, because it's not a coding issue, it's a population issue. Unless they decide that MASSIVELY longer waits for matches for everyone is acceptable (and maybe even then) matches are going to remain highly random.

I wait a long time and when I get solo matches I have 9 potatoes on the team.

I'm not convinced population is the sole issue.

[Deathlike]

Ultimax, on 29 October 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

I wait a long time and when I get solo matches I have 9 potatoes on the team.

I'm not convinced population is the sole issue.

The population doesn't get more intelligent over time... which is a fault of the near-nonexistent NPE.

[Mole]

All you people complaining about matchmaker. I really don't feel like I get screwed that often. I feel like I win more often than I lose, my teams often communicate over VOIP, and when I do lose it's not the end of the bloody world and it's not "broken matchmaker" or "another **** team" that caused my loss. I will admit to sometimes getting teams that do just absolutely stupid things that I can point to as the cause of our failure but like I said, I'm winning more than I'm losing. And I refuse to believe that this is happening to me and only me because I'm just so amazeballs good that I am constantly carrying my team to victory.

Edited by Mole, 29 October 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[Dee Eight]

MM currently for solo queue works by PSR followed by weight classes and then to a degree tonnages, which fortunately prevents situations of 3 20 ton lights + 3 40 ton mediums + 3 60 ton heavies + 3 80 ton assaults facing a team of (3x35)+(3x55)+(3x75)+(3x100). The widest spread I've ever seen happen in weight totals is 80 tons. When matching PSR/Weight classes of players up to decide who is on which team, it will to a limited degree assign a 55 ton medium instead of an equal skilled 45 tonner, if its having to adjust for having put more weight into another class on the other team..

I have a lot of screen caps of end match screens that bear that out.... for example...




That was a match during the epic assaults leaderboard when I was a T4 and the MM mixed T1 thru T4 players together. Red team alpha lance was 195 tons, bravo was was 345 tons, charlie was 370 tons. Blue alpha was 215 tons, bravo was 325 and charlie was 355 tons. So Red team totalled 910 and blue team totalled 895.

[FupDup]

[Wintersdark]

Ultimax, on 29 October 2016 - 04:21 PM, said:

I wait a long time and when I get solo matches I have 9 potatoes on the team.

I'm not convinced population is the sole issue.

You understand that your waits are not because the MM is making extra special matches for you, right? You get what's going on?

You're waiting a long time because there aren't enough people at your tier available, so it's got to stretch bounds further. Population is the issue.

It's using the same system as it does for potatoes. Of course, there's more potatoes, but then the system is much "wider" for T3 players than it is for T1 players.

After all, if it's making a T1 match, it can only spread in one direction as it opens release valves - it can only go down. So, for any given +/- amount of spread in the MM system, there's half the players available to select from. As an example, if the MM is making a match seeded on a top ranked T1 player, release valves at +/- 100 rating = just 100 points away from the target point, whereas a T3 match at +/- 100 points = 200 points total spread. What's more, there's fewer players at higher tiers, so that's even fewer.

We know exactly how the MM works, and how it works leads directly to this result. We know roughly what player counts are, and can do the math with said player counts to find out how many people are available for matchmaking at any given time. I've done this elsewhere, assuming DOUBLE peak time numbers from Steam (so an even 50:50 split of Steam and non-Steam players, which I think is actually pretty generous and that it's likely that the majority of players are on Steam) there's a whopping 50 players who are available for matchmaking at any given match building time.

50.

That's two matches. And that's two matches at max spread of release valves, and not considering weight class limitations whatsoever.

It's obviously a player count issue.

Mind you, the PSR system is absolutely trash for all the reasons we know, but the point above is that:


[b]It doesn't matter how stupid the PSR system or weight class limitations are. PSR could be a perfect ranking system, one that knows EXACTLY how good every player is right at that moment in time and the end result would be the same because player counts are sufficiently low that there's simply not enough players to make good matches with.

Deathlike, on 29 October 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

The population doesn't get more intelligent over time... which is a fault of the near-nonexistent NPE.

Not to downplay it - a better NPE would be hugely important for retaining new players - but it's not going to make players better over time. It'd just ensure we kept more players, and a few of them would be slightly less bad out of the gate.

[Davers]

Wintersdark, on 29 October 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

You understand that your waits are not because the MM is making extra special matches for you, right? You get what's going on?

You're waiting a long time because there aren't enough people at your tier available, so it's got to stretch bounds further. Population is the issue.

It's using the same system as it does for potatoes. Of course, there's more potatoes, but then the system is much "wider" for T3 players than it is for T1 players.

After all, if it's making a T1 match, it can only spread in one direction as it opens release valves - it can only go down. So, for any given +/- amount of spread in the MM system, there's half the players available to select from. As an example, if the MM is making a match seeded on a top ranked T1 player, release valves at +/- 100 rating = just 100 points away from the target point, whereas a T3 match at +/- 100 points = 200 points total spread. What's more, there's fewer players at higher tiers, so that's even fewer.

We know exactly how the MM works, and how it works leads directly to this result. We know roughly what player counts are, and can do the math with said player counts to find out how many people are available for matchmaking at any given time. I've done this elsewhere, assuming DOUBLE peak time numbers from Steam (so an even 50:50 split of Steam and non-Steam players, which I think is actually pretty generous and that it's likely that the majority of players are on Steam) there's a whopping 50 players who are available for matchmaking at any given match building time.

50.

That's two matches. And that's two matches at max spread of release valves, and not considering weight class limitations whatsoever.

It's obviously a player count issue.

Mind you, the PSR system is absolutely trash for all the reasons we know, but the point above is that:


[b]It doesn't matter how stupid the PSR system or weight class limitations are. PSR could be a perfect ranking system, one that knows EXACTLY how good every player is right at that moment in time and the end result would be the same because player counts are sufficiently low that there's simply not enough players to make good matches with.

I think far more players don't connect via Steam then do.

[DaZur]

Maybe it's my tier... maybe it's luck.

While I freely admit to having had a few matches with wide disparities like this. Truth be told, they are outliers in contrast to the majority of my matches.

For me personally, I just don't see enough of these to see ti as a problem.

Hell, I've actually been party to matches where we, as the underdog actually won despite the odds!...

[GreyNovember]

Wintersdark, on 29 October 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Not to downplay it - a better NPE would be hugely important for retaining new players - but it's not going to make players better over time. It'd just ensure we kept more players, and a few of them would be slightly less bad out of the gate.

I don't get this.

If I've already been here for a year, why in the hell would I use the new tutorial?

[El Bandito]

Played two matches today, won both, so no MM issue here. Then again, it was most likely due to the KDK-3 I piloted.

GreyNovember, on 29 October 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

I don't get this.

If I've already been here for a year, why in the hell would I use the new tutorial?

Perhaps you don't, but I have seen 3-year vets play like absolute potatoes.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 October 2016 - 08:28 PM.

[Cabusha]

I've seen so many complete ******** matches lately. One teams will have 3x Kodiaks, and Dire, and an Atlas. Other team will have a Victor and a Stalker. Pilot skill on means so much when the tonnage disparities are that huge.

[SplashDown]

Cathy, on 29 October 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

When is there going to be any sanity in what people are facing.

Not only are the gates all open so that there can be no mediums and no lights in a game these days, but the tonnage variation is disgusting.

Just finished a game with my alt.

Both sides had three assaults side A had Zeus, Victor, Awesome, side B had KDK-3 Atlas D-DC, Direwolf.

This kind of imbalance went all through the sides if it wasn't gross disparity between weight side B ended up with better mechs, Timberwolf against Orion. Only in one mech was there any parity and that was both sides shared a Rifleman.
It's getting rather stupid

Well its a population issue..ive played several matches today that had alot of the same names as the last match.
Blame the whinners..and there nerf this nerf that..they are the ones running every-1 off