86 replies to this topic

[slide]

.... the mwomercs.com website went live and I signed up right away based on what the website had to say.

What I didn't realize at the time was the roller coaster journey that I was about to embark upon.

After the initial joy of finally having another Mechwarrior title to play, the long wait for a beta invite started. Some 7 months later in the middle of June the long awaited key arrived in my inbox. The intervening time had not been left idle as a small group of people that I met here on these very forums got together and created a unit. We talked, played MW4, Megamek and dreamed of what MWO would become and our place in it. They were heady days and as we all slowly got added to the closed beta roster we reveled in mech v mech action.

When open beta went live our ranks exploded, 50, then a hundred a few weeks later 200 people had joined our ranks, eventually we drew a line in the sand and said no more at 400. Other units had similar uptake rates, it didn't seem possible for a small community such as Australia to produce so many Mechwarriors, many of whom were founders for this game. But it did and it was glorious.

The year that followed was filled with events, internal unit comps, inter unit events, the Oceanic League (most of you probably never heard of that but it was a thing for a while, I helped organize it). All the things we the players did to keep the game interesting while waited for Community Warfare.

And then the rot set in. PGI started to lag behind in development. The goal posts started to shift. Promised Features where watered down or removed entirely. It seems as though the only information we got was please wait a little while longer, but support us by buying another mechpack.

Over time our units have dwindled, some have disbanded, forgotten, some have merged for the greater good, others have thrived but somewhere the enthusiasm of all those early players has been lost. Just look at how many people even come to these forums anymore, it must be a tenth of what it was and those that do come are the same old faces waiting for a train to arrive that we all know will never come.

So as the 5th anniversary comes and goes I sit here on my roller coaster as the carriage makes it's way back to the platform and wonder of what might of been. A game that had so much promise, so much enthusiasm from its players, a developer that was (is) awash with cash and could have done anything if they had stuck to their initial concepts.

Mechcon is the next big thing for MWO. The question I have for myself is after it, will I get back on the roller coaster and go around again, or is it time to get off and go home like everybody else.

[Otto Cannon]

I want to get off Mr. Bones Wild Ride.

[LordNothing]

rollercoaster? its more like being dropped into a black hole.

its slow at first, you pick up speed, but then development comes to a crawl while your cash is sucked out of you in spaghetti like strings.

Edited by LordNothing, 31 October 2016 - 10:04 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Indeed yesterday my first born celebrated his birthday five years.
First thing I did after we left hospital almost five years ago was signing on.

[RestosIII]

Honestly, I don't care what Russ's excuses are. I blame him personally for PGI and members of its staff telling us about things that would never get delivered. They knew how much the community loved the Mechwarrior/Battletech IP, and they knew exactly how to get us hooked with the promises they gave. I have no idea if they actually intended to deceive us, or if they started it all and realized later they were in over their heads. But either way, they abandoned the founders, and anyone that was expecting the game they pitched to us back then. Now we're just waiting, hoping that one of these days they'll go back to the original plan. In reality though, MechCon will probably be them accidentally letting air bubbles get into the life support system keeping the game alive, and finishing it off.



But until then, I'll be waiting, hoping that I'm wrong.

Edited by RestosIII, 31 October 2016 - 10:25 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

I like to play devil's advocate, but I got a title at Wal Mart that Russ worked on. It should have been in the "we pay you a dollar bin".

[Karl Streiger]

Well considering the other games of the FPS era - planetside, titanfall and others.
Mwo is persistent - but only because of customers that behave like masochists - please can you hurt us a little bit more. Look there there it doesn't hurt.
It also shows the tradegy of MWO it would have been a Class A game if the game only meet half the expectations of its customers.
But well as most addicts I think I'm cured - April was my cure.

They might announce MWO 2 on the Mechcon but with the same guys there is no future

[Gaden Phoenix]

OP, the article is what I felt 2 years ago when I left MWO. I was an early player, but not a founder as I did not buy any founder pack.

Now I am back as after touring the online gaming world, I find there is something about MWO's combat, mechs, mech bay customisation and gameplay. I should be more disappointed as there is so much wasted potential, and I agree that this game could have been so much more.

But I just cannot be bothered anymore or have any expectations anymore about the future of MWO. I am now just here for a fun pvp deathmatch in mechs (of my youth).

Maybe it is my job as a Network Engineer and Tech Support Manager, but I given up on expectations on gaming/programming/networking and just take things as they come. I guess years of hearing complains from staff and years of confronting ISPs, hardware tech staff, etc, has just made me realise, what PGI has done is so much so the fraking norm, I just go ma.

They are so average in the tech world, that their story of wasted opportunities and angry consumers is really nothing new.

You can point at other games, but look at their budgets, their manpower, the time they took and the quality of talent they hired and even then most screw up big time or fail. And then you realise that those that succeed are really not the norms.

You can point at HBS and other small companies, but then, please take into account HBS for example has proven talented veteran leaders at the helm. And even then the 1st Shadowrunner game was not that great. Except they just really handled "everything" better.

TLDR: Not be defend Russ and gang, but MWO is actually really the norm as a med. budget game made by team, that was really very green when they started.

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 31 October 2016 - 11:03 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Feels a bit strange to speak about an era as recent as five years ago in terms of nostalgia but that's what I felt when I read your post.

Great post, yet depressing to read at the same time...so much opportunity squandered here.

[meteorol]

When i signed up for MWO, i already read everything i could about it.

I was absolutely sure about two things:

1) it's going to be an above average arena shooter at best
2) This "conquering planets thingy" will never work out as they describe it.

So here i am, years later, and MWO exactly delivered what it thought it would from the very first second. Which is why i'm still here. I was never delusional about what PGI would actually deliver. I'm fine with this product and i spent quite a bit of money on it because i knew what i was going to get. Could and should it be a better game? Sure. Did i ever expect it to be a better game? Hell no. Unlike others, i didn't give PGI money based on the product they pitched, but based on the product i thought they could realistically deliver.

So here i am. Not a bittervet, not on an island. Just playing the game i signed up for. If i could turn back time, i would spend the exact same amount of money on MWO, because i did it fully aware of what i will get in return.

[627]

To be true, If you stay with the roller coaster picture, I'm still in it because I bought enough tickets for it over the years. Now I just ride it from time to time and enjoy the view but basically wait for the train to stop so I can get into the next ride over at HBS.

We had a good ride. Some ups, many downs and some weird loopings but overall it was entertaining and still is. It's just that I don't really care anymore to even think about spending money. Stop caring, enjoy as long as it lasts and get home after it.

I have no idea what they try to reveal at mechcon and what PGI think how they can get us all back in. Looking on their abilities with new content in the past... it looks that they are simply not able to create something in this game anymore beside mechs and maps.

[Creag]

Still waiting for what was promised in the beginning. So yeah I agree with Slide's statement.

[Dodger79]

Yeah, it has been a time of great excitement. And, after all, PGI delivered a pretty good and solid arena shooter (funny enough on this: as the whole game plays like an arena shooter no matter what mode or queue, PGI still hasn't added a Solaris 7-mode which would fit perfectly to this play- and gamestyle and the MWOWC could have been one the greatest launch events for a new mode in gaming history). But after what was promised, despite being a good arena shooter, it is sad that nearly none of the promised things have made it into the game after 5 years. And even more sad: all the lies and the treatment of the most loyal customers by PGI. They promised CW several times "in the next 90 days" while being fully aware that they haven't even started working on it nor being willing to start before the renewing of the license by Microsoft almost a year later.

I really like to play what we have now in quickplay as it is mostly a fun time. But considering PGI's behaviour and all the "what could have been"s, it's so sad...

[Gaden Phoenix]

It is sad, that those that actually come closes to "support" them are people that go meh, it is what is is

Edited by Gaden Phoenix, 01 November 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

The beta was awesome, the potential was huge.

I didn't play for the first few years... And in the last 12 months since I have, ugh... It's just going downhill. Sadly.

The rescale hurt bad
The IS quirk nerf was midguided
Faction Play "phase 3" was the biggest flop, you cannot describe how bad it is
Kodiak 3, changed the FP landscape that much - and yet more IS nerfs


It's rock bottom. I hate QP but that is all that is left, and even that is boring these days. It's the same crap each game.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 01 November 2016 - 08:57 PM.

[Scyther]

Like the OP, I was enthused about MWO from the first mention, got in for my Founders pack etc.

A few key differences (with over 25 years as a gamer/developer and reader-of-game-development news), my expectations were as follows:

-New titles across the industry over-promise/under-deliver - I took all promises with a box of salt.
-New releases of most MMOs (at least the ones that attract me) have traditionally been buggy, under-advertised, and released with a 'the rest of the game will be finished soon!' disclaimer, so expected that.
-Disappointments with 'beloved franchises' seem common, see Star Trek, Star Wars, and even WoW releases post-BC.
-I don't play shooters (this and WoT are the only two) - had no expectations there either.

Overall, got my Founders, a few pre-orders here and there, didn't expect much, assumed CW/FP wouldn't go over well, played a stompy robot shooter and had some fun.

Did I want, really want, to see MW2: Mercs and MW4: Mercs Online - my faves? Sure I did. Did I really want to see more lore, background, travel, heck, even space-trading of the earlier titles? Damn straight I did. Did I expect some storyline? Of course!

Am I disappointed that we got a FPS shooter with big, not overly balanced mechs? Somewhat, not too much. It's a pretty good shooter, after all, if that's all you're looking for.

Is PGI wasting the potential here? Certainly. People refer to BT as a 'niche' product, but it's a 30 year old IP that still has loyal fans with buckets of cash today, spawned a dozen paper/board games, TWO dozen video games (most of which have been high sellers), a CCG, it's own Wikis etc etc. This may not be a 'mass market' game but it ain't no niche!

One OP comment I disagree with is the "developer awash with cash" point. I don't think most players realize just how much money a gaming company based in an expensive city like Vancouver and running a global server setup burns through in a month.

I'd guess PGI releases mech packs in a "cash flow vs. monthly payout" race and they simply don't have the vision / development moxie to get off that dead-end grind and into a more sustainable cash model. I've pointed out a dozen times over the years that Mechpack sales are not a long-term solution.

(I also suspect they've got a very good mech-design team, an okay map designer or two, and the all-important "game design" development is left up to some people/programmers who don't have complete skill sets in those areas.)

The primary reason I don't play much is not disappointment or bitterness, it's simply that even a decent shooter game lacks depth. There are only so many times I can snipe with lasers or brawl with ACs and SRMs before it gets boring. There is really no 'progression' ladder to climb - which is the driving force in most successful MMOs. Every new mech is just a slightly different variation on the mechs you already have. And the economy is just pure grindfest (ridiculous module prices etc.).

So, almost 5 years in for me also, I'm still here, I'll still play from time to time. But if PGI wants my playtime and my $$, it's time to finish the game they set out to make 5 years ago.

Edited by MadBadger, 01 November 2016 - 04:11 AM.

[Bombast]

LordNothing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

rollercoaster?

MWO Rollercoaster - One big hump in the beginning, then you're done.

Edited by Bombast, 01 November 2016 - 04:04 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

The glass is definitely half full. I mean, this could have been the best game ever, if PGI actually played their cards right and if they were able to deliver some of what they promised (even 3 out of the 4 "pillars of MWO" would have been a huge improvement)

But it's stil a pretty fun game, compared to most games. In 2011-2012, they laid the foundation for a pretty awesome game. Now, it's a pity that the next 4 years after that were disappointment after disappointment, with a few moments of joy in between. But I'm still struggling to understand how they were able to make such a good foundation for this game, and then proved completely incompetent when it came to build on that foundation. Was it luck? Did all the best developers quit? What happened? I know they lost some developers, but were those guys responsible for the core mechanics created in 2011 and 2012?

The core mechanics in this game are, after all, pretty darn great. It's just weird how they managed to create that, but then afterwards showed such ineptitude. It's different than companies like Blizzard, Bethesda or Bioware, because those companies deliberately chose certain game formulas in order to maximize their profits. They're not staring at flamers for 4 years, going "Uhhh... maybe we should buff these so they actually do something?"

[Dee Eight]

Gaden Phoenix, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

has just made me realise, what PGI has done is so much so the fraking norm, I just go ma.

Its spelled "meh".

[slide]

MadBadger, on 01 November 2016 - 03:56 AM, said:

One OP comment I disagree with is the "developer awash with cash" point. I don't think most players realize just how much money a gaming company based in an expensive city like Vancouver and running a global server setup burns through in a month.

At the time that the Founders program was run they raised something like $5.6m in a little over 2 months. It is any ones conjecture on how much the criminals at IGP sucked out of that or how long they expected it to last but they certainly had cash to spend for a time. The founders program was the most successful "kickstarter" ever run in it's day and was not over taken until Star Citizen came along, probably as a result of MWO's success in some small way.

Certainly it costs money to run a game like this, no denying that but they did have the money to at least make a start on what was proposed, as has been pointed out in this thread they chose not to. A decision I feel is going to haunt them for a very long time.

@Bombast, that picture pretty much nails it.


Whether you like MWO or not (anymore) the fact is PGI have failed in any way shape or form to provide a hook. There has been plenty of bait over the years, with promises of a big one lurking but there is no hook to keep fans or those new the franchise coming back for more. Once you get board of the stale game play, or if you can't over come the admittedly steep learning curve there is nothing but endless grind. Most people can only stand so much of that whilst they wait for the next great feature, which never comes or is done so poorly they may as well not have bothered.

Don't get me wrong I have had some absolutely great times and I have had my monies worth over the years, but I can honestly say it has been my unit and the friends I have made that have kept me going for 2 years more than I would have otherwise, not PGI's product. The really sad thing is they could have had more of my money and more of my time if they had just done things a bit differently or even just what they have done, better. Since the failure of CW3 I have pretty much stopped playing anything other than the occasional private stock match. The less I play the less I want to play.

If you can't keep people who have invested money playing, then I don't think you have much chance of keeping anyone.

Edited by slide, 01 November 2016 - 04:42 AM.