86 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

I'm a johnny come lately to MWO. Watched from the beginning but knew that RL would not give me the time to play a video game, even one that smacked my nostalgia buttons has hard as this one. When RL let up a bit and I checked in to discover that CW was finally a thing I thought of joining up as that is what I had been waiting for all along. Did some checking and looked at reviews and quickly realized that CW was not what it was advertised as but the nostalgia itch was strong so I joined anyway. Over the next year I found that I really did enjoy it. It was lacking so, so many features that I felt it ought to have. It lacked depth, it lacked even basic text descriptions. So what, it was fun and there were a lot of nice folks playing so I put up with its failings.

Then phase 3, then Russ and his disdain, and his esports.
CW not only lost what little aspect of compelling game play it had, it lost its community, and PGI does not seem to understand that. Until they figure it out, the founders, the BT fans, the lore nerds, the casuals are going to have little reason to play this "end game" content. The hard core gamers want a robot shootem up...go play titanfall 2 then. I don't want that. I just want the Mechwarrior online that PGI advertised.

Edited by Bud Crue, 01 November 2016 - 04:27 AM.

[razenWing]

I find myself in a rare agreement with Tristan winter. I also like to add that... how many games do you know created with exclusive online play NOT from big developers actually survive 5 years?

None? Oh, so this game is actually not as bad as it seems, eh? We all want new features, but we must also accept the fact that this game is 5 years old, and the best development time for drastic changes are long gone (that's usually year 1 and 2 stuff)

Now, I am not going to deny that year 1 and 2 were pretty horrible. There was a crappy confusing UI (part of the reason why I signed up for Beta, then quit after 1 game). There was the whole fiasco with the "Golden Mech" (Who the f in the right mind came out with that BS? A lot of people in the world play on computer worth WAY LESS than that garbage) But to PGI's credit, weren't those handled by someone else back in the days?

Considering how that partner screwed PGI, I say they rebounded pretty well. If this, right now, is the game we got 5 years ago, I would be pretty happy. But let's also realize that the game right now is also a lot more mature and fine tuned than 5 years ago. So I say, all is good. (Lest they come out with erectile dys... that would be the most horrible change, and truly, a nail to the coffin)

[Tom Sawyer]

Well since we are going to dream of what might, could, SHOULD, have been. Who knows, perhaps just might from another company.....

[Dodger79]

razenWing, on 01 November 2016 - 04:32 AM, said:

But let's also realize that the game right now is also a lot more mature and fine tuned than 5 years ago.

Beg to differ on this one: MWO always was a decent arena shooter (perhaps even better/atleast more fair to newcomers) without modules, strikes. It even looked better in closed beta and had features like collision, animations following the terrain etc.. The problem only is that this single aspect of the game that works really well (QP as an arena shooter) was called a placeholder for the "real game that is supposed to follow soon" for quite a long time by the devs...

[razenWing]

Tom Sawyer, on 01 November 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

Well since we are going to dream of what might, could, SHOULD, have been. Who knows, perhaps just might from another company.....

Do you honestly think that trailer is better than what we have? Clunkier robots with WAY worse art and UI? Come on, man. Be real for once.

--------

Correction: Aside from the aspect of urban combat where cities are not like 5 random trees. That much I like.

Edited by razenWing, 01 November 2016 - 04:43 AM.

[Scyther]

Reply to slide:
"At the time that the Founders program was run they raised something like $5.6m in a little over 2 months. It is any ones conjecture on how much the criminals at IGP sucked out of that or how long they expected it to last but they certainly had cash to spend for a time."

My earlier comment was in regards to players underestimating game development/maintenance costs. $5.6 million sounds like a lot of money, should have developed a lot of game, right?

Well, $5.6 million was awesome for a kickstart/Founder type program. Unfortunately, games cost over $5 million to make back in the 80's. Proper 3D titles run $10-$20 million and higher. Much higher.

http://kotaku.com/ho...game-1501413649

I've seen other estimates for monthly 'cash burn' rates for small development/MMO companies that run almost $1 million per month. That's a lot of mech packs to sell, and probably why they are so locked in to that as their sales model.

Edited by MadBadger, 01 November 2016 - 04:47 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

Hmm an engine with destructible environment? Properly sized mechs? Perhaps a gaming company that actually listens to the fans?

Oh wait, Harebrained.

There be hope still at least for battletech!

As far as first person robot stomping, time will tell....

[Dee Eight]

Gaden Phoenix, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 PM, said:

You can point at HBS and other small companies, but then, please take into account HBS for example has proven talented veteran leaders at the helm. And even then the 1st Shadowrunner game was not that great. Except they just really handled "everything" better.

I haven't paid much attention to the who which company is behind the "new" battletech, but mentioning shadowrun.... that I do know flopped... boy I'm glad I didn't partake in that kickstarter for BT now. And having industry vets doesn't ever guarantee great success if all they turn out is a lame product. Shadowrun returns for example launched onto steam for example with a peak twenty four thousand players in July 2013, and then bled out like a sucking chest wound in only a couple months. According to steamcharts the 24 hour peak was 65 players.

http://steamcharts.com/app/234650

Shadowrun : Hong Kong isn't doing much better...

http://steamcharts.com/app/346940

Shadowrun : dragon's fall...

http://steamcharts.com/app/300550

And finally shadowrun : chronicles...wow...launch month peak of a bit over 700... really kept the players interest by 2015 didn't they....

http://steamcharts.com/app/267750

This for a game harebrained kickstarted in 2012 and kept missing goals, dates, etc. People criticize PGI over MWO but at least we have a game, five years on, that THOUSANDS play every day. Not a game that gets a couple hundred people a day.

[meteorol]

slide, on 01 November 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

At the time that the Founders program was run they raised something like $5.6m in a little over 2 months. It is any ones conjecture on how much the criminals at IGP sucked out of that or how long they expected it to last but they certainly had cash to spend for a time. The founders program was the most successful "kickstarter" ever run in it's day and was not over taken until Star Citizen came along, probably as a result of MWO's success in some small way.

People keep throwing this 5.6m around like it's a huge number. If you compare this to what is spend on AAA titles nowadays, 5.6m (probably ~/2 because it was used for two games) is pretty much change. We are talking about sums in triple-digit million range. And that is just for development and marketing, without running costs for servers and ongoing development.

Just because it was the most succesful kickstarter it doesn't mean they had a lot of money to work with by nowadays industry standards. Not saying the couldn't have done better (they certainly could), but expecting way more than we got just because of the money they raised doesn't make too much sense, imo.

[Baulven]

Dee Eight, on 01 November 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

I haven't paid much attention to the who which company is behind the "new" battletech, but mentioning shadowrun.... that I do know flopped... boy I'm glad I didn't partake in that kickstarter for BT now. And having industry vets doesn't ever guarantee great success if all they turn out is a lame product. Shadowrun returns for example launched onto steam for example with a peak twenty four thousand players in July 2013, and then bled out like a sucking chest wound in only a couple months. According to steamcharts the 24 hour peak was 65 players.

http://steamcharts.com/app/234650

Shadowrun : Hong Kong isn't doing much better...

http://steamcharts.com/app/346940

Shadowrun : dragon's fall...

http://steamcharts.com/app/300550

And finally shadowrun : chronicles...wow...launch month peak of a bit over 700... really kept the players interest by 2015 didn't they....

http://steamcharts.com/app/267750

This for a game harebrained kickstarted in 2012 and kept missing goals, dates, etc. People criticize PGI over MWO but at least we have a game, five years on, that THOUSANDS play every day. Not a game that gets a couple hundred people a day.

Shadowrun is great for a single play but it's linear storyline makes replay value low. Same deal with the expansions. The Battletech game, if it provides the ability to direct match people, or better yet a campaign makes will not have those issues. Also shadowrun being primarily an rpg means it has a much different fanbase from the mechwarrior crowd, and you can get a lot of nostalgia for niche projects.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Some serious truth dropped by Slide. PGI doesn't get this. Never will.

...and yet still people act like something is better than nothing concerning MWO. Pathetic enablers or low standards considering most of what was suppose to be in MWO had been done in games for some 10 years or more and PGI couldn't deliver it. That says it all and you can look at the still useless skill tree as the best example.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 01 November 2016 - 06:09 AM.

[DaZur]

Some of you folk are drama queens...

Is MWO what was pitched to us 5 years ago? No. Did PGI/IGP squander this IP with their piss-poor management and uncontrolled hubris? Absolutely. Is MWO a shell of what is could have been or at this point might ever be? Without a doubt.

That said, at it's core, MWO is a fun, albeit shallow game. I wish to emphasize "game".

I like way too many of us have invested both time and money into this game. More than it probably deserves. But in the end... I have not had a title that has ever held my interest for a couple years let alone five. So to that end, I personally feel I've more than recouped my investment.

All being said... I still enjoy playing this game 3 to 5 nights a week, investing roughly 15 to 30 hours just "playing".

IMHO, there are a handful of you who need to do a little self-reflecting. You've taken the bitter pill and your seething hate of this game, the developer and anyone who manages to actually derive enjoyment from it is palpable and honestly unhealthy. Ya need to cut losses and stop foaming at the mouth trying to railroad PGI at every turn and move on and get on with your lives...

I fail to understand why you continue to come here, fall to the ground in epileptic seizures with hope that PGI will notice and suddenly make the game we've all been waiting for.

As so many of you like to point out. There's better out there... What the hell are you doing there then? Watching the carrion rot and vultures circle?

Edited by DaZur, 01 November 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[Bombast]

razenWing, on 01 November 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

Do you honestly think that trailer is better than what we have? Clunkier robots with WAY worse art and UI? Come on, man. Be real for once.

Just wanted to point out the art is different, not worse (As someone fairly disappointed with the unified motif of MWO, I kind of find the usage of the older style Atlas refreshing), and the UI is quite obviously cinematic only, like most UIs seen in the Mechwarrior series out of game engine.

As for it being clunkier... I think it works better in a single player game then the speed demon type movement we have in MWO. Feels more real and Battletechish to me.

DaZur, on 01 November 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Some of you folk are drama queens...

I'm having fun, and there's nothing you can do to stop me!

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I have to go take a shower, and I went to the bathroom after cutting the peppers for some relish and forgot to wash my hands before hand. So...

Ouch.

Edited by Bombast, 01 November 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[Cub]

This clip sums it all up pretty well, something for everybody:

[TLBFestus]

Here's my advice;

We all love the game and the universe it resides in. However, we are disillusioned by the antics of the Developer.

With that in mind, I'd simply stay on the ride and not pay. Enjoy it while it lasts but treat the game like a terminally ill patient and stamp a DNR on it and hope it's not too painful.

[DaZur]

TLBFestus, on 01 November 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Here's my advice;

We all love the game and the universe it resides in. However, we are disillusioned by the antics of the Developer.

With that in mind, I'd simply stay on the ride and not pay. Enjoy it while it lasts but treat the game like a terminally ill patient and stamp a DNR on it and hope it's not too painful.

Not an unreasonable stance to take. One that makes is clear to others how you feel but not at the expense of looking like you're coming unhinged and does not denigrate people who see things contrary to your opinion.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

5 Years ...War Thunder from Gaijin has now 4 Birthday ...today working the team by the Models for the Naval Mod,after Air and Tankbattle the 3 Modes ...destroyable Structures, many gamemodes with KI and Coop ,Historical Misisons, Campaign...and Maps ,Maps ;Maps and intersting gamemodes

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 November 2016 - 08:07 AM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

slide, on 01 November 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

At the time that the Founders program was run they raised something like $5.6m in a little over 2 months. It is any ones conjecture on how much the criminals at IGP sucked out of that or how long they expected it to last but they certainly had cash to spend for a time. The founders program was the most successful "kickstarter" ever run in it's day and was not over taken until Star Citizen came along, probably as a result of MWO's success in some small way.

As of last month, Star Citizen crowd-funded $129 million...and yet, last I heard, not many were happy with the progress there, either.

[Hades Trooper]

Dee Eight, on 01 November 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

I haven't paid much attention to the who which company is behind the "new" battletech, but mentioning shadowrun.... that I do know flopped... boy I'm glad I didn't partake in that kickstarter for BT now. And having industry vets doesn't ever guarantee great success if all they turn out is a lame product. Shadowrun returns for example launched onto steam for example with a peak twenty four thousand players in July 2013, and then bled out like a sucking chest wound in only a couple months. According to steamcharts the 24 hour peak was 65 players.

http://steamcharts.com/app/234650

Shadowrun : Hong Kong isn't doing much better...

http://steamcharts.com/app/346940

Shadowrun : dragon's fall...

http://steamcharts.com/app/300550

And finally shadowrun : chronicles...wow...launch month peak of a bit over 700... really kept the players interest by 2015 didn't they....

http://steamcharts.com/app/267750

This for a game harebrained kickstarted in 2012 and kept missing goals, dates, etc. People criticize PGI over MWO but at least we have a game, five years on, that THOUSANDS play every day. Not a game that gets a couple hundred people a day.

i see your trying to use stats about HBS.

i have all 3 HBS shadowrun titles and there all good, in fact they improve with each game, expanding and a developing the in game things.

Now for the stats you have to understand the game. It's a story based game with combat sections. Once you have played them through 2-3 times you know pretty much all the dialogue and the combat reations can be forced to predictable outcomes. For shadowrun thats fine as it's more a roleplaying game.

Now as a roelplaying gamer you want new content all the time. you can't expect a group of people to play the same storyline over and over. Thus the numbers are high the 1st few months and then bled out yes. Are any of them un happy? pretty much no. Most reviews are positive and the pre orders swell when the next shadowrun game is announced.

[TLBFestus]

DaZur, on 01 November 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Some of you folk are drama queens...

Is MWO what was pitched to us 5 years ago? No. Did PGI/IGP squander this IP with their piss-poor management and uncontrolled hubris? Absolutely. Is MWO a shell of what is could have been or at this point might ever be? Without a doubt.

That said, at it's core, MWO is a fun, albeit shallow game. I wish to emphasize "game".

I like way too many of us have invested both time and money into this game. More than it probably deserves. But in the end... I have not had a title that has ever held my interest for a couple years let alone five. So to that end, I personally feel I've more than recouped my investment.

All being said... I still enjoy playing this game 3 to 5 nights a week, investing roughly 15 to 30 hours just "playing".

IMHO, there are a handful of you who need to do a little self-reflecting. You've taken the bitter pill and your seething hate of this game, the developer and anyone who manages to actually derive enjoyment from it is palpable and honestly unhealthy. Ya need to cut losses and stop foaming at the mouth trying to railroad PGI at every turn and move on and get on with your lives...

I fail to understand why you continue to come here, fall to the ground in epileptic seizures with hope that PGI will notice and suddenly make the game we've all been waiting for.

As so many of you like to point out. There's better out there... What the hell are you doing there then? Watching the carrion rot and vultures circle?

Honestly?

I don't see a lot of that kind of "hate for the game" that you refer to anymore. Go back a few years and, yes, it was alive and well and rampant. Nowadays? Not nearly so much. Nowadays it's more of a resigned antipathy.

First, the people still here complaining ("takes a bow") actually LIKE the game. This is the truth because if we actually hated the game, we'd be long, long gone. It's PGI we all have issues with, so we hang around, doing our best to nail jello to a wall and (probably) secretly hope for a miracle.

Even then, no matter how much one likes the core game play, if you've been around long enough you have to acknowledge that it's about as stale as week old popcorn and PGI shows no interest/aptitude to change that.

I can still play a game I essentially like, despite my dislike for the choices PGI has made because I can play "for free" and enjoy the game will not rewarding PGI with my cash. However, it's the lack of content, innovation, the "staleness" that's slowly driving me away from playing very often at all.

In the past week I've played more than I have the past 6 months, mostly because I got caught up in the daily challenges, but even then it didn't rekindle any excitement in me for the game. Moving forward, having daily challenges could increase the amount of players a day, but I'm unsure that it will actually do anything to increase the player base. It's a "maintenance" mechanic, not a game building one. I know it won't work long-term on someone such as myself.

The one and only thing that gets me playing still is getting together with my buddies when they play twice a week. Strangely enough I still do that regardless of PGIs disinterest in improving small group play, something that would probably help increase new player retention.

Just typing that makes me grind my teeth because it's such an obvious thing to do, yet PGI just doesn't "get it".

Edited by TLBFestus, 01 November 2016 - 09:24 AM.