73 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am just wondering... how do you open a 2000 ton blast door if the generator that powers the door is destroyed?

Spoiler

I am somewhat serious here, as the game's future depends on Faction Play and the current faction play game mode is based entirely upon the idea that blowing up the generator that powers a door's mechanisms will cause the door to spontaneously open... despite having no power.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 November 2016 - 09:58 AM.

[RestosIII]

Obviously that's when the muscle men come appear out of nowhere to help.

[Lyoto Machida]

With lasers, ballistics and missiles...obviously. Or maybe the generator is set to open upon any loss of power...as a safety precaution (or something).

[Mystere]

What else?

Edited by Mystere, 08 November 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Lyoto Machida, on 08 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

With lasers, ballistics and missiles...obviously. Or maybe the generator is set to open upon any loss of power...as a safety precaution (or something).

Set to open upon loss of power... okay, how does it open without power?

[Metus regem]

RestosIII, on 08 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Obviously that's when the muscle men come appear out of nowhere to help.

Little known picture of a Clan Ghost Bear Elemental....

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Set to open upon loss of power... okay, how does it open without power?

Vacuum pressure?

But in all seriousness, the bases in CW are very, very poorly thought out.

[Lyoto Machida]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Set to open upon loss of power... okay, how does it open without power?

Once the power goes out, the forced labor starts cranking away:

[Felicitatem Parco]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

But in all seriousness, the bases in CW are very, very poorly thought out.

It's not just the bases, it's the basis. Blow up a door opener to open the door?!?! Ya know what that means? The only way to fire a Gauss Rifle should be to hit it with critical damage.

[Bandilly]

Large springs or counter weights clearly. The power is obviously there just to be able to close the doors.

Edited by Bandilly, 08 November 2016 - 10:11 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bandilly, on 08 November 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Large springs or counter weights clearly. The power is obviously there just to be able to close the doors.

Hah...was looking for pics of large industrial springs but gave up.

[TLBFestus]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Set to open upon loss of power... okay, how does it open without power?

The doors are actually SPRING loaded to open. The generators create a magnetic field that "locks" the springs until such time as the power is cut off. Once gone, the springs release their potential energy and, viola, the doors begin to open.

Like these, but really REALLY big:



This mechanic is easily explained, in the case of, no, I mean it's due to, ummm, well there is always that thing that when, .... OHH crap!! they put the springs in backwards!!

Edited by TLBFestus, 08 November 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Bandilly, on 08 November 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

Large springs or counter weights clearly. The power is obviously there just to be able to close the doors.

So, the doors are designed specifically to allow invading forces to enter the base via destroying the generators. It's funny, because I would design my base doors to stay SHUT if there is an invading army at the gates.

Maybe someobe should point this out to our balance overlords who are responsible for making the features of the game mesh together.... I am surprised that nobody at PGI had thought about this notion... that doors are better at keeping armies out if they stay shut.


*mutters to self*


I hope they have an announcement at MechCon about this forehead -slappingly dumb design thatbhas not yet been addressed for faaaar too long.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 November 2016 - 10:18 AM.

[Bandilly]

Yeah, but then in case of a regular generator failure you get locked in. You have to be able to escape somehow.

[Metus regem]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

So, the doors are designed specifically to allow invading forces to enter the base via destroying the generators. It's funny, because I would design my base doors to stay SHUT if there is an invading army at the gates.

Maybe someobe should point this out to our balance overlords who are responsible for making the features of the game mesh together.... I am surprised that nobody at PGI had thought about this notion... that doors are better at keeping armies out if they stay shut...

I did, I sent them a long document about it, as well as better base layouts, ideas for targets with in a base and a better idea for defenders to be exiting from underground destructible hangers, rather than coming in via drop-ships... but like all things sent to PGI, offering well thought out and worded advice, it is ignored.

[CK16]

Well give me a big enough lever and I can move a world....

Really though, CW/FW does need to get a little more then shooter LoL....

[Jman5]

You have these really heavy counterweights built into the side walls of the door that are held up by an electric winch. When the power is on, and the door is closed, they remain lifted. When the power goes out, nothing is holding them up anymore so the counterweights drop (gravity), turning a gear that slides the doors open.

Edited by Jman5, 08 November 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Jetfire]

I mean a properly designed base would have incredible defensive power, but that would also make 12v12 impossible. These are more like makeshift temporary defensive firebases. They are better than nothing but not really "fortified".

[Felicitatem Parco]

Jman5, on 08 November 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

You have these really heavy counterweights built into the side walls of the door that are held up by an electric winch. When the power is on, and the door is closed, they remain lifted. When the power goes out, the counterweights drop (gravity), turning a gear that slides the doors open.

And the generators are located right next to the doors because....? They ran out of conduit and extension cords to power the doors from afar?

Look, I know the devil's advocate game is fun, but not when the future if the only market-viable Mechwarrior game hangs in the balance.

[Metus regem]

Jetfire, on 08 November 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I mean a properly designed base would have incredible defensive power, but that would also make 12v12 impossible. These are more like makeshift temporary defensive firebases. They are better than nothing but not really "fortified".

And I have seen temporary defensive firebases that had better layouts....

The generators in CW are badly placed from a defensive perspective, there are no overlapping fields of fire for the defensive structures, the interiors are always walled in, minimizing the amount of room that the defenders have to maneuver....

[Khalcruth]

*shrug*

I'd go with it being built so that it naturally wants to spring open (you could use weights on chains / pulleys if you wanted), but powerful electromagnets (supplied electricity by the generators) are used to overcome that and hold the doors shut. Cut the electricity, and the door does as designed and opens up.

Why would you build it that way? I don't know. Maybe a safety feature - if bad things are happening inside the compound (I'm thinking industrial accident - I'd swear on at least Emerald Taiga you have nuclear plant cooling towers right next to the gun), it would work as a safety feature to let your people get out. The blast that the blast doors protect against might be the cannon blowing itself apart.



From a practical game design standpoint - there aren't force fields in this universe. So the doors have to be made out of something solid. And while you could just have the attackers physically blow through the doors,

a) you then have to wonder why you can't do things like demolish buildings and
b )making the attackers have to blow up something on the inside means they have to at least partially expose themselves to defender fire while blowing that thing up.

I know some people respond "well why have doors / choke points at all". Well, you could get rid of them, but then the maps would have to be several times larger (and they apparently have a hard enough time scraping together the money to pay someone to make the maps as it is), and to cover the fact that the attackers could come in from more sides, you'd have to either substantially increase the number of defenders (like make it 18 defenders vs 12 attackers) or increase the number of turrets (like at least double the number of them). And without out-of-bounds areas, or impassable terrain of some kind, if the attackers could come from any direction they could have 12 gauss-snipers take all the objectives at extreme range with impunity, which would probably make for some really boring bug hunts.

Edited by Khalcruth, 08 November 2016 - 10:39 AM.