104 replies to this topic

[M T]

LRM's should be the weakest weapons in game.

[Natred]

If lrms are consistently underpowered why when I lrm boat I consistently do 400 damage plus? Heck good games I get 600 to 800 damage with them?

[Lostdragon]

Natred, on 14 November 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

If lrms are consistently underpowered why when I lrm boat I consistently do 400 damage plus? Heck good games I get 600 to 800 damage with them?

Not all damage is created equal. Sandblasting 600 damage across all the components of a few mech is worse than doing 300 pinpoint damage to the CTs of those same mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Natred, on 14 November 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

If lrms are consistently underpowered why when I lrm boat I consistently do 400 damage plus? Heck good games I get 600 to 800 damage with them?

1400 is a good game

800 stands to be above mediocre
Unless you're in a Light

[JediPanther]

Demarticus, on 14 November 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

LRM Boats are one of, if not the most powerful Mech's to build, and all you have to do, is sit back, and fire, literally it, the only other aspect is to have teammates spot them, but it's literally just point and click, and being forced to hide behind buildings the ENTIRE game isn't fun.

Clearly you have never used the Catapult A1 with six lrm 5s begging for the 11 other players on your team for lock ons just so you can fire your own weapon. Or been in while in the A1 when those fast enemy movers comes laser-ing your rear armor trying to run back to those 11 other players spaming the com wheel for help,typing madly in team chat, and screaming like a little girl on voip for help.

If lrm boats were so easy you'd see 3-4 A1s,Archers,Lrm stalkers, lrm atlas every where.

[wolf74]

I'd typed it before so I so I will type it agian.

LRM are OP we should make all the other weapon work like them.

1. To fire you must have a Target lock. (Which mean if the enemy Mech has ECM you have to have a TAG laser or Narc on it to fire at it)
2. It take 6.5 sec for your weapon to get to it max Range or For lasers have a 6.5 sec Burn time.
3. We will have to make a Anti-Laser Chaff system & Anti-AutoCannon Shell System.
4. Have Alarms going off in the enemy cockpit every time someone fires at them so they get back up behind the building or Hill.


Currently the LRMs are at the 9th Longest range weapon for the I.S. and the 13th Longest range weapon for the Clans.

Edited by wolf74, 14 November 2016 - 08:45 AM.

[Tristan Winter]

It's a shame that it's taboo to talk about how the meta-game changes from Tier 5 solo queue to Tier 1 group queue. Because people just keep beating each over the head with different realities and nobody's benefitting from those discussions.

When someone is saying that LRMs suck, they are actually saying that LRMs are not effective against the best players in the game. But saying that LRMs are underperforming is just demonstrably false in most matches. I'd say LRMs are decent even in Tier 1 solo queue. At Tier 2-5, LRMs are great. Just because this is no longer true against 228 or Empyreal doesn't mean that LRMs are universally bad weapons.

It's annoying to see people discuss this question as if the answer to the question is the same, regardless of your perspective. To slam the OP because he doesn't "know how the game works" is just dumb, because LRMs are actually performing well for most MWO players. Just not the top players. This doesn't make it objectively correct to say that LRMs are in fact bad.

There's too much circle-j*rking and epeen-stroking in this thread. To say that LRMs are useless is the MWO equivalent of saying hat Starbucks coffee is just disgusting liquid candy, in an attempt to signal to the world that you're very sophisticated and you know what proper coffee tastes like.

[Oryn777]

Off topic - I've been lurking here for a few months since I've started playing. One of the reasons have chosen not to post up until this point is due to the absolute flood of negativity that comes anytime someone creates a topic with an different opinion.
It seems that some of the posters in this thread, and many others like it, are more interested in attacking the OP then discussing his topic. Meme gif's, "git gud's", and "because we said so" seems to be the preferred form of debate for most of the more vocal members of this community.
I'm not sure if I am more disturbed by this community's automatic negative response to anyone with a different opinion or by the fact that it has gone on for so long that it almost seems normal.

On topic - Lrm topics seem to pop up often enough that at least some portion of the community believes there is something wrong with the way they work.
Maybe they would pop up more often if those posters didn't get crapped on for bringing it up.
If I am reading the OP's first few comments correctly it seems the problem is not so much the lrm's themselves but the fact that they force a "hug cover" play style that he does not enjoy.
The only actual advice given in this thread so far has been to hug cover better.
Lrm's are the only weapon in the game that allow all 12 mechs to fire at a target that only one mech can see (or none in the case of UAV).
I can totally understand that it can get rather boring and repetitive to constantly have to reposition yourself to make sure that no one on the enemy team can see you. I'd much rather watch 24 mechs killing each other then having my virtual face pressed up against a low-res mountain or building for nine tenths of my game time.
However , I can also understand that there are some people that enjoy the hide and peek play style and the feeling that you get tactically using terrain and outmaneuvering your opponent.
I myself would like to see an overhaul of the radar and spotting mechanics in this game.

Edited by Oryn777, 14 November 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[RestosIII]

Oryn777, on 14 November 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Meme gif's

Well, apparently I'm not wanted here. I guess I'll be leaving...

[Tibbnak]

I mean, I straight up posted a lrm boat XL stalker ironically and didn't get any **** for it. Really does kind of seem more like a piss on the OP doggo thread more than a discussion.

[Dogstar]

Please don't forget that the OP was complaining that LRMs are too powerful and that they shouldn't get the buffs that are coming tomorrow:
>I'm worried about as to why in the ever loving hell are they buffing LRM's?
and then proceeded to demonstrate a lack of understanding.

Personally I think LRMs are about right, there's an issue with the spread, but otherwise they're a weapon that can do very well in the right conditions but can also do very badly in the wrong situation.

When the enemy team has a few missile boats and they're pounding you LRMs feel totally overpowered. On the other hand when you round a corner to see a nice fat LRM boating Catapult, Archer, or Stalker ready to be slaughtered then LRMs are totally underpowered.

LRMS are a weapon system that takes good skill to do well with and good skill to counter.

[Ultimax]

Demarticus, on 14 November 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Everyone is so worried about the Kodiak Nerf, but me? I'm worried about as to why in the ever loving hell are they buffing LRM's?

PGI has consistently catered to the potato tier in this game, it is a big dumb wallet that needs streaks to hit over-sized lights and it needs LRMs to be "good enough" to allow them to farm their fellow potatoes on the weekends during events.

Edited by Ultimax, 14 November 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Quxudica]

Demarticus, on 14 November 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Everyone is so worried about the Kodiak Nerf, but me? I'm worried about as to why in the ever loving hell are they buffing LRM's?

They already eat me and everything they focus alive half the time, and having just one AMS does literally nothing against them, but no, I guess them destroying CT Armor in roughly 30 seconds wasn't good enough? But now they get a faster cooldown? Seriously?

LRM Boats are one of, if not the most powerful Mech's to build, and all you have to do, is sit back, and fire, literally it, the only other aspect is to have teammates spot them, but it's literally just point and click, and being forced to hide behind buildings the ENTIRE game isn't fun.

There was another game I played JUST like that, World of Tanks, and it's a total camp fest now, Heavies can't do their jobs because Artillery smacks them to the ground, and the same goes for Medium's, Artillery destroyed that game because they made it incredibly powerful, and honestly, I don't want to see the same exact thing happen here, I actually enjoy this game, and for it to be ruined by LRM Boats, would force me away, just like World of Tanks' Artillery pushed me away.

Please reconsider the buff, even consider giving them a bit of a nerf, because as it stands, hardly anything can stand up to them, except those with multiple AMS and ECM Light's.

LRMs don't need a buff. They also don't need a nerf. LRMs need to be scrapped completely and redesigned from the ground up. But that's been true for years and will never happen. They are either entirely useless, or entirely overpowered for the effort it takes to use them, there is no in between.

[Wrathful Scythe]

Tristan Winter, on 14 November 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

When someone is saying that LRMs suck, they are actually saying that LRMs are not effective against the best players in the game.

*not effective against the average players in the game.

Sorry but avoiding LRMs is not a honed skill that requires focused time to learn it. And even if you get catched by surprise, normaly you just walk away into cover while those LRM20s are doing minimal damage to you on all components.

LRMs can't be consistently good. Thats the whole problem. There are to many factors at play that makes or breaks your game. LRMs aren't useless under the right circumstances, true, but why take the risk if you can choose a weapon that performs consistently and has no counter that can render it (almost) useless.

If LRMs really pose as a threat to you, consider equipping AMS, ECM or/and Radar Deprivation. And don't run into the open with no cover for you to break line of sight. Big cover to protect you from missiles is not needed most of the time. If he can't see you he can't shoot you.

[Ultimax]

Tristan Winter, on 14 November 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:

It's a shame that it's taboo to talk about how the meta-game changes from Tier 5 solo queue to Tier 1 group queue. Because people just keep beating each over the head with different realities and nobody's benefitting from those discussions.

When someone is saying that LRMs suck, they are actually saying that LRMs are not effective against the best players in the game. But saying that LRMs are underperforming is just demonstrably false in most matches. I'd say LRMs are decent even in Tier 1 solo queue. At Tier 2-5, LRMs are great. Just because this is no longer true against 228 or Empyreal doesn't mean that LRMs are universally bad weapons.

It's annoying to see people discuss this question as if the answer to the question is the same, regardless of your perspective. To slam the OP because he doesn't "know how the game works" is just dumb, because LRMs are actually performing well for most MWO players. Just not the top players. This doesn't make it objectively correct to say that LRMs are in fact bad.

There's too much circle-j*rking and epeen-stroking in this thread. To say that LRMs are useless is the MWO equivalent of saying hat Starbucks coffee is just disgusting liquid candy, in an attempt to signal to the world that you're very sophisticated and you know what proper coffee tastes like.

When I say LRM's are bad, I mean they are badly designed.


They have bad mechanics, that teach bad habits and their effectiveness is based on how bad/uncoordinated the enemy team is.


The really frustrating part is that the worse the skill of the enemy team, the more effective massed LRMs become culminating in those heavily LRM saturated weekend events where solo players are basically just being rained on in a fun-suffocating atmosphere.

What else can we call a weapon system that rewards poor play concepts, is frustrating and suffocating for new & lower skill players that is simultaneously considered a trash tier weapon by upper tier players other than "bad"?

[Mole]

Ladies and gentlemen, if you'll look to you left we have a fresh specimen straight from the steering wheel underhive. This particular species is renown for believing that the worst weapon system in the game is overpowered despite being very simple to counter.

Edited by Mole, 14 November 2016 - 12:14 PM.

[Lostdragon]

Oryn777, on 14 November 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

Off topic - I've been lurking here for a few months since I've started playing. One of the reasons have chosen not to post up until this point is due to the absolute flood of negativity that comes anytime someone creates a topic with an different opinion.
It seems that some of the posters in this thread, and many others like it, are more interested in attacking the OP then discussing his topic. Meme gif's, "git gud's", and "because we said so" seems to be the preferred form of debate for most of the more vocal members of this community.
I'm not sure if I am more disturbed by this community's automatic negative response to anyone with a different opinion or by the fact that it has gone on for so long that it almost seems normal.

On topic - Lrm topics seem to pop up often enough that at least some portion of the community believes there is something wrong with the way they work.
Maybe they would pop up more often if those posters didn't get crapped on for bringing it up.
If I am reading the OP's first few comments correctly it seems the problem is not so much the lrm's themselves but the fact that they force a "hug cover" play style that he does not enjoy.
The only actual advice given in this thread so far has been to hug cover better.
Lrm's are the only weapon in the game that allow all 12 mechs to fire at a target that only one mech can see (or none in the case of UAV).
I can totally understand that it can get rather boring and repetitive to constantly have to reposition yourself to make sure that no one on the enemy team can see you. I'd much rather watch 24 mechs killing each other then having my virtual face pressed up against a low-res mountain or building for nine tenths of my game time.
However , I can also understand that there are some people that enjoy the hide and peek play style and the feeling that you get tactically using terrain and outmaneuvering your opponent.
I myself would like to see an overhaul of the radar and spotting mechanics in this game.

The OP said a bunch of crap that showcased his ignorance then kept arguing with veteran players who told him why he was wrong and how to not get rekt by LRMs. He posted a terrible build and crowed about how he would darken the skies with his missiles and rake in the cbills. Of course he caught a bunch of flak.

On your second point, if you don't like a hug cover style gameplay then MWO is not for you because when you consistently face good players you either hug cover or you die. Trying to cross open ground in sight of enemies in cover who can aim is going to go poorly for you every time. Being good at MWO is 70% tactics including use of cover, 10% heat management, 10% mech labbing, and 10% aiming.

I would love to see a radar and LRM mechanic rework but neither of those will save you from a 50 point PPFLD alpha strike so even if they do happen you better stay in cover.

[Escef]

Demarticus, on 14 November 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

It's not avoiding them that's the problem, I can hide behind a building all day long if I have to, it's being forced to do so because someone with a Catapult and 2 LRM 15's, 2 LRM 10's, and 2 LRM 5's decided that I was going to be his lunch for that day.

If you don't mind my asking, what idiot did you see running this build? It's either insanely slow, under-ammo'd, or armored in wet tissue paper (if at all).

[chucklesMuch]

Good they needed a buff… still doubt they will be very effective.

When I first started playing this game I hated LRMs and thought they were OP, ridiculously cheesy, should never be used and you were a terrible pilot to want to use them… (my first Mech game and spent a while in tier 5).
After a while they were just something to be avoided, still hated them and didn’t think kindly about builds that used them…
Then at some point probably coinciding with going up tiers, putting radar derp in all my builds and more importantly learning a little positioning. I could see why they were considered UP and was meh toward those that used them. (And hoped my team didn’t have many)
Then... I ended up with three maulers. First two I ran dakka with …and then I started running the R with Lrms (it had so many missile quirks)... guilty pleasures??
Now they are simply a non issue… I don’t care if people boat them, hybrid them or never use them. I will lock targets if my team has them, often call out missile friendly targets and will generally avoid them if the enemy has them… the only times I now get killed by them is a mistake on my part.

They are sooooo not OP at the higher tiers, and generally need co-ordination to be effective (damage alone doesn’t equate to being effective – just richer in cBills). And good luck getting hits let alone kills against the very best pilots.

[BuckshotSchell]

LRM's should scare the crap out of you when you see them coming in. They are supposed to be a force multiplier something to make the enemy break and run for cover while softening them up for your hitters to walk in and demolish them. Right now they are mostly just annoying. If you have a fast mech you can out run them, and if you have radar dep just step behind something for a second. LRM needs all the help they can get.