23 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

***Snipped From Patch Notes***

...

Ultimately, the near 30-60% DPS increase across the UAC line, compared to the other Ballistic options, made UACs a direct DPS 'upgrade' over those alternative Ballistic options. While this is somewhat needed on the Inner Sphere side to help justify the higher tonnage and slot requirements, this trait is not shared on the Clan side. For Clan 'Mechs, the UAC is essentially a 'free' upgrade that was vastly over-performing against the Ballistic alternatives.

...

As far as the Clans are concerned (IS yes has decent ballistic other then the UAC/5) what are the other ballistic options we have? UAC's are the clans bread and butter because thats ALL WE HAVE!

Are you telling me PGI is now balancing the game based on the PLACE HOLDERS that have been left? Or am i misreading this? Compared to all Ballistics? Yea? But they Spread? and are getting hotter? What its gonna take to make potatoes learn to use AC20s?

Edited by Revis Volek, 14 November 2016 - 04:28 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Revis Volek, on 14 November 2016 - 04:27 PM, said:

***Snipped From Patch Notes***

...

Ultimately, the near 30-60% DPS increase across the UAC line, compared to the other Ballistic options, made UACs a direct DPS 'upgrade' over those alternative Ballistic options. While this is somewhat needed on the Inner Sphere side to help justify the higher tonnage and slot requirements, this trait is not shared on the Clan side. For Clan 'Mechs, the UAC is essentially a 'free' upgrade that was vastly over-performing against the Ballistic alternatives.

...

As far as the Clans are concerned (IS yes has decent ballistic other then the UAC/5) what are the other ballistic options we have? UAC's are the clans bread and butter because thats ALL WE HAVE!

Are you telling me PGI is now balancing the game based on the PLACE HOLDERS that have been left? Or am i misreading this? Compared to all Ballistics? Yea? But they Spread? and are getting hotter? What its gonna take to make potatoes learn to use AC20s?

They buffed the CAC/2 by reducing the heat, but did not extend the heat buff to CUAC/2, so it seems that PGI is using the non-cannon, non-lore placeholder weapons that are not meant to exist in the game as the standard of comparison.

[Tristan Winter]

What I find really interesting is that PGI first made Ghost heat to stop boating, then wanted to replace Ghost heat with ED, which led to more boating, and now they're balancing weapons based on how effective they are when boating. E.g. "The IS AC5 and cUAC10 are fine when you bring one or two, but they are too effective when boated on Maulers and Kodiaks. So in order to balance these weapons, we will nerf them to the point where they're only viable when boated."

PGI has a long history of blanket nerfs in order to deal with the most powerful mechs.

[FupDup]

PGI has frequently had problems when trying to figure out where to set the baseline for effectiveness. Usually they set it too low, but sometimes they might put it too high...this particular issue is an example of the former.

Clan standard ACs are totally balanced and viable, guise. They're not too weak at all, it's just that like 90% of the other guns are too OP!

[Lyoto Machida]

They are not placeholders, guys...they are the "alternative ballistic options."

[Deathlike]

In the world of our balance overlord, forgetting the random excuses/answers from previous responses is a good way to forget the original reason for them in the first place...

[Lyoto Machida]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

In the world of our balance overlord, forgetting the random excuses/answers from previous responses is a good way to forget the original reason for them in the first place...

Is that kind of like telling lies so long that you start believing them yourself?

[El Bandito]

Tristan Winter, on 14 November 2016 - 04:42 PM, said:

What I find really interesting is that PGI first made Ghost heat to stop boating, then wanted to replace Ghost heat with ED, which led to more boating, and now they're balancing weapons based on how effective they are when boating. E.g. "The IS AC5 and cUAC10 are fine when you bring one or two, but they are too effective when boated on Maulers and Kodiaks. So in order to balance these weapons, we will nerf them to the point where they're only viable when boated."

PGI has a long history of blanket nerfs in order to deal with the most powerful mechs.

Their fault for not starting with:



Then there wouldn't have been 5xAC5 Mauler issue. People wanted unlimited customization, they live with the consequences.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 06:03 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

Their fault for not starting with:
Then there wouldn't have been 5xAC5 Mauler issue.

True. We would also have avoided the UAC5-boating Warhammer. And the KDK-3 problem could have been avoided if PGI hadn't kept the hardpoint inflation going.

[Jingseng]

Clan tech... it is so advanced they can't make a regular autocannon if they tried. It just keeps turning into an UAC.

The lbx? it's actually a super fast UAC1. So fast, it looks like a cluster round.

[FupDup]

Tristan Winter, on 14 November 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

True. We would also have avoided the UAC5-boating Warhammer. And the KDK-3 problem could have been avoided if PGI hadn't kept the hardpoint inflation going.

For the millionth time...The 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPC "PokeBear" build (which beats the DakkaBear) would be entirely unaffected if you reverted that variant to stock hardpoints. Even sized hardpoints can't stop it, because the Gauss Rifle is much smaller in size than the stock LB 20-X.

Edited by FupDup, 14 November 2016 - 06:16 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

Right, because the boomcat and gauscat is so OP. it ruins the game. If PGI didnt let players put a guass rifle on a catapult or Jager then the game would not be DOA.

[Tristan Winter]

FupDup, on 14 November 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

For the millionth time...The 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPC "PokeBear" build (which beats the DakkaBear)would be entirely unaffected if you reverted that variant to stock hardpoints. Even sized hardpoints can't stop it, because the Gauss Rifle is much smaller in size than the stock LB 20-X.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that Paul just nerfed the UAC10 because that weapon is OP on the KDK-3, which only has 2 stock ballistic weapons. The UAC10 wasn't really a problem until the KDK-3 came along. Sure, the quad UAC10 Dire Wolf was pretty brutal, but it wasn't overpowered to the same extent as the UAC10 KDK-3.

The subject of this thread is the UAC nerf.

[Tristan Winter]

Dirus Nigh, on 14 November 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

Right, because the boomcat and gauscat is so OP. it ruins the game. If PGI didnt let players put a guass rifle on a catapult or Jager then the game would not be DOA.

The complaint is not always that mechs with MGs as stock weapons are OP with ballistic quirks. The gausscat isn't OP, but that's not the issue in that particular case. The issue is that PGI is very inconsistent when it comes to rewarding stock builds.

For example, the Phoenix Hawk quirks are all about the stock builds. MG quirks, laser quirks and PPC quirks. Apparently, they don't want people to equip UAC5s, AC10s or LB10Xs on the PXH, which could potentially be viable with the right ballistic quirks. Instead, they give out MG quirks. This is good.

The CPLT-K2 is one of the most iconic PPC carriers in Battletech. But instead of trying to reward players who stay close to the stock build, they give ballistic quirks for a mech that doesn't have any stock ballistic weapons. In the case of the CPLT-K2, it's not a big deal, because it's such an underperforming mech anyway (due to hardpoint inflation), but in the case of the WHM-BW, it is a big deal.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 14 November 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

For the millionth time...The 2 Gauss + 2 ERPPC "PokeBear" build (which beats the DakkaBear) would be entirely unaffected if you reverted that variant to stock hardpoints. Even sized hardpoints can't stop it, because the Gauss Rifle is much smaller in size than the stock LB 20-X.

Let the Poke Bear be, cause it is clearly not causing issue in pug queue or CW. Clan Gauss though, needs to be brought in line to 15 ton IS Gauss level. Cause having a weapon like that for 12 tons is BS.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 November 2016 - 06:37 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Let the Poke Bear be, cause it is clearly not causing issue in pug queue or CW. Clan Gauss though, needs to be brought in line to 15 ton IS Gauss level. Cause having a weapon like that for 12 tons is BS.

That's as soon as our balance overlord gets a clue.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2016 - 06:42 PM, said:

That's as soon as our balance overlord gets a clue.

We managed to wait for 2 years for cross faction AC balancing, we can wait another two years, amiright?

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 14 November 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

Let the Poke Bear be, cause it is clearly not causing issue in pug queue or CW. Clan Gauss though, needs to be brought in line to 15 ton IS Gauss level. Cause having a weapon like that for 12 tons is BS.

So the better mech can be let be, but the dakka bear has to go because it offends potatoes more? Is that what you are saying? God this game is ****** up.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 November 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

So the better mech can be let be, but the dakka bear has to go because it offends potatoes more? Is that what you are saying? God this game is ****** up.

Try to read the full post. I want Clan Gauss too to be nerfed, afterwards. And it is a fact that Poke Bear has less influence in pug matches and CW.

[MechaBattler]

FupDup, on 14 November 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

PGI has frequently had problems when trying to figure out where to set the baseline for effectiveness. Usually they set it too low, but sometimes they might put it too high...this particular issue is an example of the former.

Clan standard ACs are totally balanced and viable, guise. They're not too weak at all, it's just that like 90% of the other guns are too OP!

They should give the standard Clan ACs a slight velocity buff. To add to their reliable nature over the UACs.