102 replies to this topic

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

black book of balance

8sec+recharge is waaaaaay tooooooo much

FOr the reason I told you: IS has quirks on thier ballistic right now.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 15 November 2016 - 11:27 PM.

[kapusta11]

Joe has 5 guns

Bob has 10

One would think that Bob moving slower with would compensate for all the power he has but it didn't, Bob needs to be nerfed.

The firepower of both guns was cut, but look, Bob still has twice as many guns compred to Joe

Joe is sad

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 November 2016 - 11:26 PM, said:

8sec+recharge is waaaaaay tooooooo much

FOr the reason I told you: IS has quirks on thier ballistic right now.

For the reason I told you: IS quirks need to be reduced, and for that, Clan tech needs to be balanced.

[Mister Blastman]

Dino Might, on 15 November 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

You may want to as well. Effect as a verb means "to bring about," so his usage, though maybe unintentional, does make a valid statement that is consistent with what was desired (if you consider "balance" to be the goal).

You're welcome.

No, his usage was not correct.

Effected means "settled securely and unconditionally."

Affected, on the other hand, means "acted upon; influenced."

In the context of the title, I believe he intended to mean the latter. You'll notice the verbs "was" and "is" are implied in the title, but not stated. They are silent, but, if the title was written properly, then it would have read: "SINGLE UAC IS NOT PLAYABLE; BOATING WAS NOT AFFECTED."

Edited by Mister Blastman, 15 November 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

For the reason I told you: IS quirks need to be reduced, and for that, Clan tech needs to be balanced.

So, when will the IS ballistic quirks be erased, except for gauss?

Knowing pgi...I'd say...never.

Anyway, 10 seconds in which you are useless means death.
It's not a good change, El.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 15 November 2016 - 11:44 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

You guys....

1. KDK-3 is still the best mech variant in the game, no?
2. If PPC/gauss KDK-3 is the best loadout in the game, is dakka-kdk-3 still the second best loadout in the game? Not unlikely.
3. Dual cUAC10's was disproportionally powerful before this change, because all UACs had the same jam time. That was bad design to start with, and made cUAC2's lose DPS when double-tapping and made cUAC10's and even more cUAC20's gain 40 and 60% DPS respectively. Now all UACs are normalized so that you gain approximately 20-30% DPS when doubletapping (compare to the old spread of -7 to +60%). That aspect of this change was very much called for. Dual-cUAC10 were (are) powerful loadouts together with support lasers on EBJ, TBRn NGR etc, you didn't have to boat them.
4. I agree 8 seconds is a bit long (yes 8 seconds because you always have cooldown so just adding it on for extra effect is just misleading). I would have preferred larger jam chance but the old 5 sec delays, chosen so that the average change to DPS ended up in the +20-30% range.
5. A small increase in PPC and Gauss cooldowns could also have been in order, perhaps next patch? We want diversity for sure!
6. Ghost-jam-chance could have been chosen as a mechanic instead of the current ghost heat to curb boating, but that doesn't change the fact that double-tap for cUAC2 needed to be buffed and cUAC10 needed to be nerfed to make all UACs work as intended. The old values were broken, seriously. If nothing else, you have to agree that cUAC2 losing DPS when double-tapping was not working as intended, ok?

[LordNothing]

the only ballistics i felt were unbalanced were the entire 2 line, and the cacs (and machine guns but thats another thread). the cacs needed to be brought up, not bring the uacs down to make the cacs seem usable. the 2 line needed a buff, and the fact that they got it in this round is damn good news (id have perfered ammo buff, to make the 2 class better on lights and mediums, but low heat is good too). i dont think the clan 5s and 20s needed to go anywhere, and the big heat nerf that the uac10s got was enough, and probibly neccisary. absurd jam times were totally not neccisary. also this was not an issue until kodiak, and could have been put down with a few negative quirks.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 November 2016 - 11:47 PM.

[Random Carnage]

Called exactly this yesterday; http://mwomercs.com/...ll/page__st__40

Quote

As for increasing the jam chance and the unjam timer to address UAC boating issues, they appear to completely miss the reality that such measures will hurt the single UAC build far more than the boat UAC builds that can live with some jamming while maintaining dps and relatively low heat, unlike the single gun builds that simply stop altogether,

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 15 November 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

So, when will the IS ballistic quirks be erased, except for gauss?

Knowing pgi...I'd say...never.

Anyway, 10 seconds in which you are useless means death.
It's not a good change, El.

TBF, PGI did nerf Clan lasers as well as significant amount of IS energy quirks. So I dare say it is very possible for the same thing to happen to ballistics.

And 10 seconds of being useless mostly happens if one has nothing besides a single UAC20, in one's build.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 November 2016 - 12:21 AM.

[Dino Might]

Mister Blastman, on 15 November 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

No, his usage was not correct.

Effected means "settled securely and unconditionally."

Affected, on the other hand, means "acted upon; influenced."

In the context of the title, I believe he intended to mean the latter. You'll notice the verbs "was" and "is" are implied in the title, but not stated. They are silent, but, if the title was written properly, then it would have read: "SINGLE UAC IS NOT PLAYABLE; BOATING WAS NOT AFFECTED."

Fair enough. I was looking at his usage in the post and not the title. So he did what my students usually do when unsure. Guess two wrong ways but accidentally get one right.

Of course...if you consider him to be a person who doesn't subscribe to the boating meta... you could interpret the title and his other "effect" statement to imply that he thinks boating is too weak and the balance pass did not make it sufficiently stronger. Grammar is fun. *snicker*

Edited by Dino Might, 17 November 2016 - 09:00 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Dino Might, on 17 November 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Grammar is fun. *snicker*

Yeah... Try writing some novels. My least favorite segment of my process every day is the review. I sit down, review what I wrote the day prior, sometimes read a previous chapter or two, and sift through all the crap that managed to come out of my fingers--and believe me, it is a lot sometimes. I've labored sixty minutes staring at a single paragraph before. Eventually I get through the muck, though, and after spending a couple of hours toiling away at the mundane, then, and only then, do I get to continue the story.

I hate editing. But it is a necessary evil.

[The Lobsters]

Duke Nedo, on 15 November 2016 - 11:41 PM, said:

You guys....

1. KDK-3 is still the best mech variant in the game, no?
2. If PPC/gauss KDK-3 is the best loadout in the game, is dakka-kdk-3 still the second best loadout in the game? Not unlikely.
3. Dual cUAC10's was disproportionally powerful before this change, because all UACs had the same jam time. That was bad design to start with, and made cUAC2's lose DPS when double-tapping and made cUAC10's and even more cUAC20's gain 40 and 60% DPS respectively. Now all UACs are normalized so that you gain approximately 20-30% DPS when doubletapping (compare to the old spread of -7 to +60%). That aspect of this change was very much called for. Dual-cUAC10 were (are) powerful loadouts together with support lasers on EBJ, TBRn NGR etc, you didn't have to boat them.
4. I agree 8 seconds is a bit long (yes 8 seconds because you always have cooldown so just adding it on for extra effect is just misleading). I would have preferred larger jam chance but the old 5 sec delays, chosen so that the average change to DPS ended up in the +20-30% range.
5. A small increase in PPC and Gauss cooldowns could also have been in order, perhaps next patch? We want diversity for sure!
6. Ghost-jam-chance could have been chosen as a mechanic instead of the current ghost heat to curb boating, but that doesn't change the fact that double-tap for cUAC2 needed to be buffed and cUAC10 needed to be nerfed to make all UACs work as intended. The old values were broken, seriously. If nothing else, you have to agree that cUAC2 losing DPS when double-tapping was not working as intended, ok?

/thread

Clan ultras have needed their baws knocked back in for a while. More risk for the reward.

[Dino Might]

Mister Blastman, on 17 November 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

Yeah... Try writing some novels. My least favorite segment of my process every day is the review. I sit down, review what I wrote the day prior, sometimes read a previous chapter or two, and sift through all the crap that managed to come out of my fingers--and believe me, it is a lot sometimes. I've labored sixty minutes staring at a single paragraph before. Eventually I get through the muck, though, and after spending a couple of hours toiling away at the mundane, then, and only then, do I get to continue the story.

I hate editing. But it is a necessary evil.

I have no experience with creative writing. I'm not very creative, so I know it wouldn't go well. But I hear that the key, like most things, is to practice. I may try it one day, but my experience is all technical writing, and that can get very, very boring. But it does work the grammar and syntax quite a bit. I much prefer this stream of consciousness style to all of that.

I commend you on the writing efforts. I'd offer to help edit, but I hate it just as much. I spent 5+ years doing government writing and trying to undo idiocy like "personal, man-portable, entrenching tool, single" and writing in "shovel" instead. You can't make this crap up...

[Zergling]

TBH, they should probably just remove Ultras entirely. Too hard to balance versus normal and LBX ACs.

[KoalaBrownie]

Anakha, on 15 November 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Well this has to be the worst balance attempt by PGI yet. They made single UAC's not even playable and they hardly effected the balance of boating a lot of UAC's at all. Absolutely terrible attempt to balance UAC's. Single UAC's with the crazy long jam time and increased jam rate are not playable right now hope they fix this asap or its back to laservomit online!

Really? I got about 16 solo kills today in 4-5 matches with a single UAC.
Works just fine.

[davoodoo]

Zergling, on 18 November 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

TBH, they should probably just remove Ultras entirely. Too hard to balance versus normal and LBX ACs.

The whole point of them Is to replace acs and lbx(except for crits)
They obsolete earlier acs the same way as dhs obsolete shs

[TWIAFU]

chucklesMuch, on 15 November 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Clan laser vomit? Clan lasers are not much fun either heat + duuuuuuurrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaatttttiiiiiiiooooonnn (unless you mean the little ones spl and sl - Now they are fun!).

I see lots of erppc's and gauss going forward... pity I preferred dakka or dakka and ppc's... (guess its git gud with gauss time :/)

So, the lemmings all follow the UAC boating path. UAC get nerf'd. Lemmings cry that UAC's are worthless and need to be removed from the game.

Lemmings plan a new path, Gauss/ERPPC Boating.

Unless your really new to online gaming or are one of those people that only have an 8 second attention span and the memory to match, history has shown again and again (not just in MWO) that when lemmings follow the path of least resistance, that path get's nerf'd.

If this is the new lemming path for dual gauss/erppc, we should expect a nerf to gauss and/or PPC after the lemmings jump on the bandwagon and cry when the nerf finally hits.

Only to repeat the process.

[Sjorpha]

TWIAFU, on 19 November 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

So, the lemmings all follow the UAC boating path. UAC get nerf'd. Lemmings cry that UAC's are worthless and need to be removed from the game.

Lemmings plan a new path, Gauss/ERPPC Boating.

Unless your really new to online gaming or are one of those people that only have an 8 second attention span and the memory to match, history has shown again and again (not just in MWO) that when lemmings follow the path of least resistance, that path get's nerf'd.

If this is the new lemming path for dual gauss/erppc, we should expect a nerf to gauss and/or PPC after the lemmings jump on the bandwagon and cry when the nerf finally hits.

Only to repeat the process.

That process is a good thing though. It's good that "the lemmings" do their best to break the strongest things in online games, that is how you get enough good data for the necessary nerfs and buffs.

If Gauss/PPC now emerges as a too dominating meta, then that will expose a need to balance them and it will be good to do that as well. We already know that clan gauss/ppc are strictly superior, which is bad design. This might be a road to finally adress that and make them equally good so that IS gauss is actually worth 3 tons more and so on.

Edited by Sjorpha, 19 November 2016 - 05:01 AM.

[Appogee]

My Black Widow is certainly feeling the effects of the AC nerfing.

KoalaBrownie, on 18 November 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

Really? I got about 16 solo kills today in 4-5 matches with a single UAC.
Works just fine.

In Tier 5, anything is possible.

Edited by Appogee, 19 November 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[LordNothing]

pgi ruined my uac10+flamer kitfox build. the gun jammed 3 times in a row and i was forced to run around like an idiot for 8 seconds, repeatedly. its just sad, and i cant switch to a lb10 because there is no space for it in the rt. i could put it in the arm but then i loose ecm. ended up replacing it with an lb5, 3 small lasers and 3 machine guns. this is just a typical squirrel build now.

roll back some of the extra delay on the bigger guns, and then negaquirk the kodiak, which is what should have happened from the getgo.

that or change over the double tap mechanic to something more sensible. its too all or nothing. like the extra rounds sometimes mechanic im always talking about. even something like ghost jamchance. if you have one gun, jam chance is 10%, +5% for each additional gun. or recoil effects, cause torso deflections when firing guns. either delfect left right or up depending on where the guns are placed, more guns more deflect. 8 seconds to clear the jam + the cd is too damn much.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 November 2016 - 09:44 AM.