284 replies to this topic

[Natred]

Do not be discouraged bud, this game rewards sneaky tactics and proper timing. Knowing when to engage the enemy, what range to engage the enemy, how your teamates are engaging the enemy is key. Focus on positioning and using cover is your best bet. Sometimes getting focused initially and dying happenes. Also watching your friends get focused and dying first means you need to capitalize on your friends sacrafice. Play smart and to your advantages will help you be more successful. This game is unforgiving especially in lights and mediums. One small mistake, one hill crossed while the enemy has a uav up can mean 4 Mechs ready for you and insta death against quality opposition.

[Zergling]

Lightfoot, on 21 November 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

Damage depends on your weapons and how accurate you are. The PSR does not correlate accuracy as a positive other than kills so if you just core out the CT of mechs you can get 2 to 3 kills and not break 300 damage. In games where I get 5 kills I rarely break above the 500-700 damage range, usually includes 2 or more KMDDs.

Anyway, if you leave your targets with a clean donut hole in the center you don't pull much damage.

Not an excuse; even the best players aren't able to consistently score low damage solo kills.

Almost all the time that someone scores 2+ solo kills in a battle, they will have done well above average damage.

MrMadguy, on 21 November 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

You should also remember, that according to PSR, when you play at PSR level, that matches your skill level, your average match score, SURPRISE, is expected to be around 200. AVERAGE. So in 50% cases it should be below 200. And 200MS - is 400 raw dmg, i.e. without taking other things, like kills, assists, victory bonus, etc. into account. So, if you deal >400 dmg - then you still haven't settled at your PSR level. You actually stomp players with lower skills. And this is just wrong. It happens not because you're so good, but because PSR is so bad.

The problem with that is player skill versus population follows a normal distribution, so if there were more PSR tiers added for those upper/lower ends of the skill/population distribution, those tiers would have very few players in them and they would almost never get battles.

Like, the upper tier would be the top 1%, then second highest tier would be upper 1% to 5%. That isn't nearly enough players to fill battles with MWO's population.

The same thing would happen to the bottom tier players; there simply wouldn't be enough of them to fill battles.


And the average damage is closer to 300, after other scoring is accounted for. Lights tend to be around 200-250, mediums/heavies 300, assaults 350.

Edited by Zergling, 21 November 2016 - 02:04 PM.

[Sjorpha]

Average damage cannot mathematically be higher than the average damage it takes to kill a mech, and that is about 250-300.

So if you're averaging 400+ then someone else has to be the one scoring below 200. You can't complain about people scoring low while still expecting yourself to score high, if everyone was equally good you would be scoring 250-300 yourself, not higher.

Look at EOM screens from competitive matches, damage average will be under 300. Some of the best players in the game will score below 200 or up to 500 depending on who got focused down first.

If you're scoring consistently too much higher than your teammates one reason could be that you are playing too defensive and cowardly and allow your teammates to be focused down while you farm and let them tank.

The best way to get nice even damage scores across the team is to take the lead in VOIP comms and play very aggressive together.

Edited by Sjorpha, 21 November 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[KoalaBrownie]

Something's wrong with the pilot skill rating anyway. In conquest today, I captured 4 points got a kill, won the game and yet my PSR remained the same even though capping those points probably won us the game. The rest of the team tying up the enemy was a big help too of course but, cap 4 points and win on conquest and not go up in rating?

Evidently it favours combat too much

[Bombast]

KoalaBrownie, on 21 November 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Evidently it favours combat too much

It's weighted almost entirely to a) winning, and c) boatloads of damage regardless of how much of it was 'effective.'

Edited by Bombast, 21 November 2016 - 02:35 PM.

[KoalaBrownie]

Bombast, on 21 November 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

It's weighted almost entirely to a) winning, and c) boatloads of damage regardless of how much of it was 'effective.'

Seems that way. Another game I got 2 caps, 4 kills, we won but only did about 180 damage (or maybe 118) and my pilot rating went down

[DaZur]

Sjorpha, on 21 November 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

Average damage cannot mathematically be higher than the average damage it takes to kill a mech, and that is about 250-300.

So if you're averaging 400+ then someone else has to be the one scoring below 200. You can't complain about people scoring low while still expecting yourself to score high, if everyone was equally good you would be scoring 250-300 yourself, not higher.

Math for the win!

Seriously though, that's probably the most logical and non-biased way to look at it and explain away the how and why...

That said, even though it's a measurable mean +/- depending upon the composite of the utilised classes in the match (Say being heavy or assault centric) there's going to be folks who will choose to ignore empirical logic in favor of hyperbole.

Kudos.

[KoalaBrownie]

MrMadguy, on 21 November 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

You should also remember, that according to PSR, when you play at PSR level, that matches your skill level, your average match score, SURPRISE, is expected to be around 200. AVERAGE. So in 50% cases it should be below 200. And 200MS - is 400 raw dmg, i.e. without taking other things, like kills, assists, victory bonus, etc. into account. So, if you deal >400 dmg - then you still haven't settled at your PSR level. You actually stomp players with lower skills. And this is just wrong. It happens not because you're so good, but because PSR is so bad.

Looking at this table further, I'd have to disagree with the one on the right. Not having Win/Loss affect PSR is fatally flawed. In fact PSR should be weighted not simply by win/loss, but by the elements of the game which enable winning and losing. Capping points in Conquest, being in the Domination circle, Capping in Assault, Kills/Damage in Skirmish.

[Herodes]

Snazzy Dragon, on 20 November 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

I know everyone has bad matches but it's getting really old seeing people CONSISTENTLY pull less than 200 and sometimes even 100 in heavies and assaults. I can do 200 in a minute if I get some good shots on, and easily average 350-600 outside of assaults. Why is this even that bad of a problem?

I have a quote that fits like a glove:
"Ah ... arrogance and stupidity in one single package. How efficient of you."
- Bab5

Some fine gentlemen have already explained all the logic and reasons why the argument is flawed. I would like to point out the moral flaws in your argument.

[Tarl Cabot]

Same players all the time on a particular day? Tanking their score to drop down a tier, or allowing someone else play their mech who is just learning

For assaults/heavies? For lower tier players, people who are not used to the slow hunks or being primary targets as they are used to driving mediums. Also noted the group goes nascar and leaves them behind to be hammered by the fast light/meds who nascar quicker than your team. Or one side reverse nascar and your nascaring team runs straight into the grinder. Had that happen a few times, but one time BOTH sides reversed nascar, it was hilarious.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 November 2016 - 04:41 PM.

[Bombast]

I apologize to every playing tonight. Trying to run the Blackjack/Huntsman again, which means I am, once again, an active detriment to the team.

Sorry.

[Tarl Cabot]

Bombast, on 21 November 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

I apologize to every playing tonight. Trying to run the Blackjack/Huntsman again, which means I am, once again, an active detriment to the team.

Sorry.

I have and actually enjoy the Huntsman, I run them all with default omni pods. I have but I can never get into the Stormcrow. UAC10 + lasers and/or SRMS on most of them, or one is energy+SRM. I play the Huntsman like I would a Shadow Hawk, Enforcer or Griffin.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 November 2016 - 05:07 PM.

[Bombast]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 November 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

I have and actually enjoy the Huntsman, I run them all with default omni pods. I have but I can never get into the Stormcrow. UAC10 + lasers and/or SRMS on most of them, or one is energy+SRM. I play the Huntsman like I would a Shadow Hawk, Enforcer or Griffin.

I cant make it work. If I try to actively maneuver, I get blown apart by mechs that don't have limbs that fall off when spit on. If I try to play the poke game and augment other team members, everyone ignores my teammates and plays 'Who wants an easy kill' with the armorless junk heap that is the Huntsman's hit box.

It just can't do anything well at all, and any success you can squeeze out of it is entirely inspite of the chassis, not because of it.

And the worst bit is that it cannot dictate a fight. Ever. It's the exact opposite of a pocket battleship - The few things it can outgun can easily evade it, and anything it can outmaneuver can blow it in half in two volleys.

I'm loathing the things and they're actively hurting my team and my enjoyment of this game. But they're in the garage now, so they'll get mastered.

And the Blackjack BJ-1DC is even worse (Except for when I had triple pulse lasers on it, but for ***** sake, what can't make triple LPLs work?).

Edited by Bombast, 21 November 2016 - 05:20 PM.

[RestosIII]

Bombast, on 21 November 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

And the Blackjack BJ-1DC is even worse (Except for when I had triple pulse lasers on it, but for ***** sake, what can't make triple LPLs work?).

Me. Need quad pulses if I'm running a wub build.

[El Bandito]

KoalaBrownie, on 21 November 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

Seems that way. Another game I got 2 caps, 4 kills, we won but only did about 180 damage (or maybe 118) and my pilot rating went down

Now you are just lying. Even with 118 damage dealt, there is no way your PSR will go down in a win.

[Bombast]

RestosIII, on 21 November 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Me. Need quad pulses if I'm running a wub build.

I take it you don't do Wubs on sub 65 ton mechs?

[RestosIII]

Bombast, on 21 November 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

I take it you don't do Wubs on sub 65 ton mechs?

About the only wubs I do are on Clan mechs at this point. Back before I started going crazy with lore builds, the only real wub build I consistently ran was my Marauder with 4 LPLas.

[LordNothing]

when i got my ultraviolet on the first day my minimum damage was 500.

day 2 wasnt so good, 100, 200 i was like wtf.

then i noticed the reason, i teetered back into t2 again. so i ran my lights and medium barrel scrapings, got back into t3 and had good games again. tier seems to be more about mesuring how meta your mechs are rather than actual skill.

damn it im in 2 again. fml.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 November 2016 - 06:17 PM.

[El Bandito]

LordNothing, on 21 November 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

when i got my ultraviolet on the first day my minimum damage was 500.

day 2 wasnt so good, 100, 200 i was like wtf.

then i noticed the reason, i teetered back into t2 again. so i ran my lights and medium barrel scrapings, got back into t3 and had good games again. tier seems to be more about mesuring how meta your mechs are rather than actual skill.

damn it im in 2 again. fml.

Meh, I can pilot Adders and Archers and still stay max T1. Meta mechs/builds does help but skill is actually most important.

[Shaka808]

Just go afk for the first 4 mins of a match when in a fast mech. By the time your back the rest of the team has picked what spot they want to sit on and die while trying to hide from the enemy.