307 replies to this topic

[Knick Knack]

LikeUntoGod, on 31 August 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

A friend of mine just got the Ace of Spades in an LRM assault.

It was actually a SCR-D

[Trissila]

InspectorG, on 31 August 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

Yes, Tournament play is not the same as Pugs. But Comp play shows how to maximize builds to get the most out of resources. Apparently very few payers understand how to build a decent loadout. The number of kitchen sink builds i see in Puglandia is staggering.

You dont have to use Meta, but when you stray too far, you lose efficiency which leads to trolling, or builds that make it harder to win.

As far as AMS, im talking about in Solo play, where there are lots of it. If you are running 2LRM10 with No Artemis and No TAG, very few missiles will reach the target, unless you are farming some dude way out of position.

If you prefer non-LoS missiles in Solo, thats fine as long as you arent trying to win. That 'marginal' boost to damage in 'perfect' scenarios likely weights more in Puglandia than you think because your teammates dont press R or look at their Radar.

I guess it boils down to if you try to win or just want to shoot robots.

I think perhaps you're misunderstanding me. Non-LoS is not the point, it's merely an option.

You take a traditional Timberwolf laser vomit build, say 5 cERMLs and 2 cLPLs, you've got an alpha of 59.

You strip off the cLPLs, add a cERML and two LRM10 racks. Of course it has Artemis, that's standard on the TBR. Now you've got an alpha of 42 with the cERMLs, and potentially 62 with the missiles.

Will AMS shoot some of them down? Yeah, sometimes. Less often than you'd think, with them taking Artemis-enabled direct-fire paths at ~300 meters. You pre-lock them if you can, and if you can't no big deal, you have to have them locked for cERML burn time anyway. It's a clan mech with Artemis, you don't even need to achieve missile lock to hit them with that damage, and you have no deadzone.

Most of the time, you have similar performance to a more boilerplate laser vomit build, but you can also take advantage of various inefficiencies and mistakes that happen in lower-tier pub play. People wander around with exposed and damaged internals all the time, possibly even from the shot you just made on them. Then they go behind a hill, and either Target Decay keeps them locked long enough or someone else has sight on them to land one more volley. Will it do full damage? Maybe, maybe not. But some damage with the LRMs is better than the no damage you'd be getting with the cLPLs in such a scenario.

Again, hardly optimal. I wouldn't take it to a tournament, where every tiny fraction counts. But in pub play, that's simply not the case, and it's more than fine. It's going to perform horribly if you try to be a typical 800+ meter artillery piece, but that's why you don't play it that way. It's not a lurm boat with some lasers, it's a laser build with some utility launchers.

[Tesunie]

Trissila, on 31 August 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Stuff

I think you may be interested in some of my Huntsmen builds if you like that style of play. And on the plus side, it's lighter (if you are in group and tonnage matters) and has better jump. I do a lot of jump LRMing in them. I forgo Artemis personally, as I tend to want to toss that weight and crits into my direct fire weapons, and I tend to count a bit more on my LRMs spreading a bit to try and open more holes. Basically, I use my LRMs as a generalized bombardment support weapon, while always trying to get into range and effective shots with my 4-5 ERMLs. If I need to cool off, I can always back off and indirect, of if I'm out of position even... A lot of varied roles this style of LRM use can provide. And, because 4-5 ERMLs tend to be reasonable punch for a medium mech, it still holds it's own in close ranged direct fire engagements. I'm not too afraid to go where LRMs don't work so well, because I have reasonable direct firepower.

Of course, to Artemis or not to Artemis is up to the individual's preference. I tend to find I'm breaking line of sight often before my missiles hit (that whole poke and shoot thing), so I find the benefits of Artemis marginal. It's certainly can be worth taking, but I just like placing tonnage into other things...

[TooDumbToQuit]

[Asmosis]

LMP, on 07 May 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Ton for ton LRMs are the least effective weapon, but what's missing from this equation is that LRMs can be used from a relatively safe place behind cover while other weapons by nature expose you to greater danger.

They can be used from cover, by are generally ineffective.

Usually when I use LRM's, its in mobile med/heavy mechs in a range of about ~400m. You want to be closer to the minimum range, not close to the maximum range. Treat them like lasers in terms of positioning and you wont catch flack from your team.

[Wolfways]

Imagine the tears if pgi put an LRM assault like the Longbow in the game

[Ukos]

Nah every fast light pilot would cheer due to having easy targets to kill, it would only be mass groaning if it was C Lrms

[Kin3ticX]

The thing the guy in the video failed to explain is that homing missiles are a FOOS strategy whereas direct fire is not.



"To start, what is a first order optimal strategy? A first order optimal strategy, (FOOS) is a strategy that requires the least effort to highest reward ratio in the game."
this comes from https://www.reddit.c...s_and_the_meta/ and many other places

also has TT roots referenced in http://www.realityre...strategies.html

"To save some time, a First Order Optimal Strategy (or FOOS) is basically the least effort to power ratio in a game. Basically, the strategy that will get you the most results, for the least amount of skill. Now, looking at it from the surface, it doesn't seem like something you'd want. But it is a good thing to have."

There is also a video on the topic if you have 6 min to burn



The hate is normal. People hate being killed by stuff they cant shoot back at. When a foos strategy is properly tuned, it should be able to occasionally defeat a superior player.

Bottom line, if you shoot lasers and PPCs into the dirt and the sky more than on metal, use homing missiles.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 11 November 2017 - 06:38 PM.