99 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Comp teams have wrecked FW.
And since they have no one to fight there.
They are now sowing the same seeds in GP.
It's not so much about individual skill as it is about coordination.
And as we all know pugs are pugs.no matter the mode.
Thus the seal clubbing continues.

[L1f3H4ck]

Mechcon is one week away. It makes no sense to moan and whine right now, because you don't know what's coming. Can you give it a week?

[TercieI]

Novakaine, on 27 November 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Comp teams have wrecked FW.
And since they have no one to fight there.
They are now sowing the same seeds in GP.
It's not so much about individual skill as it is about coordination.
And as we all know pugs are pugs.no matter the mode.
Thus the seal clubbing continues.

Ignorant. No serious comp team ever seriously played CW.

[Zibmo]

Dakota1000, on 26 November 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Heh, players leave CW after complaining about the good players being there. CW gets queues split, the teams still play but the solos are basically empty. Queues get put back together messing up the group's matches in CW. Tournament happens sucking comp players out of the normal queues almost entirely. Players get used to easy mode. Tournament ends and suddenly the top players from the tournament are in their matches now that they've finished the grind through the tiers. People still refuse to go to try out faction play or try getting good so they can compete with the comp players.

I was with a buddy running a 2 man team most of last night, we had no problems with the enemy teams, we had problems with our own teams having a lance worth of people who couldn't pull out 100 damage every other match. I managed to lose a match where I got 5 kills, 4 of them solo, because we had two guys with 0 damage and even a Kodiak with about 24, a few guys in the 100-200 range, and maybe one other guy at half my 900+ damage.

We ended up noticing which groups did absolutely terrible each time we were with them and could predict a win or loss each match. MWO could definitely use a better group system, just have it compare the average win-loss rate of each group to other groups in the queue and link them up like that so that those guys constantly losing end up not facing the perfect win rate teams who actually have aim and coordination.

The solo queues for FW were empty because PGI set up conditions to guarantee they were. If you had a unit tag of any sort, even if you were the only player in the unit, you played group. So, in one fell swoop, PGI was able to say, "we don't think this is a good idea," implemented it as poorly as possible to ensure that it failed and then say, "See? We told you it wouldn't work so we're putting it back the way it was." Cheap and worthy of a politician.

I would stop using this argument if you want to maintain any credibility with those that know what was going on at the time.

Chuck Jager, on 27 November 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

I am curious why someone who is mediocre or worse is complaining instead of taking the time to learn how to play those better than them.

NOTE not all folks are created equal. If you can not win, learn to accept defeat they won you lost and they are better than you. I have to tell myself this every day.

The only way to deal with predators is to not be prey. Sheep need to shut up or at least be be grateful for the grass and enjoy being vegetarians.

Wow. I await with bated breath your screenshots of solo carries on pug teams against coordinated groups. I fail to see why some folks seem to think that epeens are actually admired.

[BLOOD WOLF]

TercieI, on 27 November 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Ignorant. No serious comp team ever seriously played CW.

that statement must be true because its true

[nehebkau]

DeRazer, on 25 November 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:

Group queue is unplayable for small groups in Tier 3/2 now.

I'm facing MJ12, Lords, EON, etc. Every game is a stomp.

It's just not fun.

Taking a break seems the only option... and that means no shiny coins for PGI till they fix this.

Would you like to buy a mech pack?

Seriously, though, i have said it many times -- any game that has player vs. player without very good item/character/player skill/build/group balancing is going to fail. Most people (i.e. most of your money) doesn't like to play in an arena where they perceive that there is inequity.

That is what led to the death of FW and might happen in group queue.

Edited by nehebkau, 27 November 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

MikeBend, on 27 November 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Lol, the attitude. So the new player who wants to play with his 2-3 friends must shut up and enjoy bein vegetarian? How about displaying on every end of match screen, when they lost "learn2play N00B!" ? Do you think that would be cool?

Honestly, some folks really think that the game should cater only to them. those people have the right to enjoy the game as much as you do. Get over it.

New player with a few friends instead wants the game to cater to them but said players do not want to feel like vegetarians? It can by dropping in private matches using Premium Time, one active per team. Why throw a new player to the wolves in GP or FP? The only time the wolves would be at a minimum for him would be the Solo Queue as he would/should be in Tier 5. Of course in Private matches the only wolves will the his friends with game experience.

PT on the website can be gifted out 7days at a time while the in-game store has it available in 1Day-250MC and 3Day-650MC increments. Use of Team Speak (using NA TS or a faction's TS) so all parties can speak with each other. Add friends. This is the only real way game play aggression is toned down for the encounters. Private matches to set your friend up for success, QP so he can then rack up his earnings with his Cadet bonuses with some GP.

The other is that GP/FP can not force each group to do is bring near max weight limit. There is MM but it is average team MM but due to various team sizes, no single players can not opt in, the valves open up so MM is particular non-existent.

Now, if AI ever happed, it could be used in campaign lines as well as purchased private matches, setup as waves of increasing difficulties. One setting the some of the AI mechs could match the players' mechs and loadouts.

But at this moment, the game can cater to you and yours, tis simple as which road to take? The one where the odds are against you but the game pays you regardless of the outcome, or you pay the game (MC-private matches) and make it as easy or difficult as needed. And with the MC sale now for approx $7 that is 1500mc, good towards Monday's half price Mechbay sale.

Notes for friend
- Mouse sensitivity from far right to far left, approx 0.10-0.20
- Keyboard settings - change LEFT SHIFT from ARM LOCK to TOGGLE ARM LOCK. Whether or not he has ARM LOCK checked or unchecked in Main Options, this keyboard setting will allow him to change back and forth while in combat
-Consider checking the box for Color Blind Friendly Reticle - change reticle from simply changing color to changing color AND adding more lines on the reticle to indicate a hit.

[Chuck Jager]

MikeBend, on 27 November 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Zibmo, on 27 November 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Wow. I await with bated breath your screenshots of solo carries on pug teams against coordinated groups. I fail to see why some folks seem to think that epeens are actually admired.

Lol, the attitude. So the new player who wants to play with his 2-3 friends must shut up and enjoy bein vegetarian? How about displaying on every end of match screen, when they lost "learn2play N00B!" ? Do you think that would be cool?

Honestly, some folks really think that the game should cater only to them. those people have the right to enjoy the game as much as you do. Get over it.

Somebody is avoiding the argument. If you notice, I also said I had to try and "git gud" too or accept that is the only option available to me as far as player vs player. If you want to blame somebody for the MM and game play, blame PGI. ATM group play does quickly become easier if you accept that it is competitive play with competitive players, but the everybody who practices and uses good equipment will quickly clear the first hurdles of becoming competitive.

This thread was started with the premise that the good players need to leave group Q. IE Very few of these folks started at that level. They have put forth many hours of time. Trust me trying to get more than 6 players to play together on comms as a team is not easy. I am lucky enough to know and sometimes get to play with some of these folks, but I will probably not make their comp team - ever.

Believe it or not 3 years ago, before the exodus begun, the high level teams in group Q were better and more numerous. The whippings were shorter and a lot harder, but the overall quality of play by everyone was also better, because everybody understood it was sink or swim.

Edited by Chuck Jager, 27 November 2016 - 11:07 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Novakaine, on 27 November 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Comp teams have wrecked FW.
And since they have no one to fight there.
They are now sowing the same seeds in GP.
It's not so much about individual skill as it is about coordination.
And as we all know pugs are pugs.no matter the mode.
Thus the seal clubbing continues.

FW needed no help from the playerbase to be wrecked fam, it was a dumpster fire from the start.

[DeRazer]

Chuck Jager, on 27 November 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

I am curious why someone who is mediocre or worse is complaining instead of taking the time to learn how to play those better than them.

NOTE not all folks are created equal. If you can not win, learn to accept defeat they won you lost and they are better than you. I have to tell myself this every day.

The only way to deal with predators is to not be prey. Sheep need to shut up or at least be be grateful for the grass and enjoy being vegetarians.

The reason is that I've been playing this since closed Beta. I have a LOT of mechs but also a family so just get an hour or two a night to play. So I basically spend all my time grinding unoptimised mechs - if I played more (I can't) or just picked 1 or two meta mechs to use (I won't) I'd be "better". I still happily ring up 500+ in the mechs I'm "gud" at.

But the current structure penalises playing in new mechs, which is ironic given that this is their main source of income...

[Novakaine]

TercieI, on 27 November 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Ignorant. No serious comp team ever seriously played CW.

Really I guess you didn't play it then?
Grandpa said......
"You just can't convince a blind man a apple is red."

[DeRazer]

Tarl Cabot, on 27 November 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

New player with a few friends instead wants the game to cater to them but said players do not want to feel like vegetarians? It can by dropping in private matches using Premium Time, one active per team. Why throw a new player to the wolves in GP or FP? The only time the wolves would be at a minimum for him would be the Solo Queue as he would/should be in Tier 5. Of course in Private matches the only wolves will the his friends with game experience.

PT on the website can be gifted out 7days at a time while the in-game store has it available in 1Day-250MC and 3Day-650MC increments. Use of Team Speak (using NA TS or a faction's TS) so all parties can speak with each other. Add friends. This is the only real way game play aggression is toned down for the encounters. Private matches to set your friend up for success, QP so he can then rack up his earnings with his Cadet bonuses with some GP.

The other is that GP/FP can not force each group to do is bring near max weight limit. There is MM but it is average team MM but due to various team sizes, no single players can not opt in, the valves open up so MM is particular non-existent.

Now, if AI ever happed, it could be used in campaign lines as well as purchased private matches, setup as waves of increasing difficulties. One setting the some of the AI mechs could match the players' mechs and loadouts.

But at this moment, the game can cater to you and yours, tis simple as which road to take? The one where the odds are against you but the game pays you regardless of the outcome, or you pay the game (MC-private matches) and make it as easy or difficult as needed. And with the MC sale now for approx $7 that is 1500mc, good towards Monday's half price Mechbay sale.

Notes for friend
- Mouse sensitivity from far right to far left, approx 0.10-0.20
- Keyboard settings - change LEFT SHIFT from ARM LOCK to TOGGLE ARM LOCK. Whether or not he has ARM LOCK checked or unchecked in Main Options, this keyboard setting will allow him to change back and forth while in combat
-Consider checking the box for Color Blind Friendly Reticle - change reticle from simply changing color to changing color AND adding more lines on the reticle to indicate a hit.

Didn't say I was new, or that my friends are vegetarians.

Fact is I play a lot - but just casually. The friend I usually play with is Tier 1 - and that's actually the issue as it somehow teams us up with a bunch of randomly talented people, playing mediums and lights (badly) and facing us off against 8 assaults, 2 heavies and 2 lights. It's a no-win situation.

Even he can't stand the imbalance which is why he set up an alt account.... where the games are fair.

Basically, Group Queue NEEDS a MM. And I will NEVER understand the whiners who complain about waiting times on this game (Group and Quickplay) - since closed beta I've got games in < 90secs 90% of the time.

[Deathlike]

Novakaine, on 27 November 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Really I guess you didn't play it then?
Grandpa said......
"You just can't convince a blind man a apple is red."

It gets boring. CW/FW teaches you some bad habits... frankly if your opponents are potatoes, then you learn/gain pretty much nothing.

[Johnny Z]

The topic title is a threat LOL. Seriously I think it is.

[Idealsuspect]

Dakota1000, on 26 November 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Heh, players leave CW after complaining about the good players being there. CW gets queues split, the teams still play but the solos are basically empty. Queues get put back together messing up the group's matches in CW.

Totally wrong.
When CW gets queues split solos players were able to play in group queue as solo just need to have or be a part of an unit..
ONLY freelancers weren't able to join group queue ( and of course mercs or loyalists without units )
In fact PGI did split queue between unit members and people without unit, they didn't split queues between groups and solos.


Matchs were better without thoses casuals people and CW was fine at this state.
But PGI did step back for few people who did left the game after anyway, they did rebroke CW also GGClose...

[TercieI]

Novakaine, on 27 November 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Really I guess you didn't play it then?
Grandpa said......
"You just can't convince a blind man a apple is red."

Not at all seriously, which, you'll note, is what I said. I was a member of CK which was one of the original units that formed -MS-, but our main comp team were not the ones playing CW after the first few weeks (see also Black Watch). SJR, Black Watch and Lords had pretty much the same experience. They dabbled early, got bored and left. It was always a boring game mode and -MS- dominated the map due to force of numbers. But -MS-'s own constituent units actually lost many of their comp players as a result of -MS-'s focus on CW. Several key EmP players left SwK as a result of -MS-'s existence. So, yeah, no real comp team ever seriously played CW. Some of us used to use it to level mechs because you could carry weak mech with good ones and 4-5 good players could control a match (and it used to not touch your stats, which matters to some people).

Edited by TercieI, 27 November 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[MikeBend]

I dont want the game to cater to newbies. I want it to cater to everyone. Screwing any portion of population drives players away. That is so simple, it shouldnt be explained at all. Its a circle, see - we cant have separate queues for big and small groups, because of low player base, but that is also the reason for low player base. How does PGI expect the player base to grow, when group queue for new players and FW is out of question? QP gets boring after a while.

[Chuck Jager]

TercieI, on 27 November 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Not at all seriously, which, you'll note, is what I said. I was a member of CK which was one of the original units that formed -MS-, but our main comp team were not the ones playing CW after the first few weeks (see also Black Watch). SJR, Black Watch and Lords had pretty much the same experience. They dabbled early, got bored and left. It was always a boring game mode and -MS- dominated the map due to force of numbers. But -MS-'s own constituent units actually lost many of their comp players as a result of -MS-'s focus on CW. Several key EmP players left SwK as a result of -MS-'s existence. So, yeah, no real comp team ever seriously played CW. Some of us used to use it to level mechs because you could carry weak mech with good ones and 4-5 good players could control a match (and it used to not touch your stats, which matters to some people).

You are right and wrong. I had an alt account started just to play both sides of the fence. This was during some of the high level BJ quirks and the release of the Marauder.

For my contract, it was easy to track down the house that the better units were listed and join the faction TS. I will be damned at who appeared as the drop callers and the friends they brought along (228). I will also say it felt like it was done as a way to help PGI implement/test the waters in how CW could be used to integrate multiple levels of players in an all out campaign.

I also am a little tickled that the caller specifically gave credit to my use of the ac2 BJ as a sweeper (game play over damage), and 1 year later I see uac2 HunchII in some comp play in the tournaments. SO maybe not practice for comp level play, but during that brief window I saw many of the same players that you looked for in group Q and in tournies. I will also say they were usually the easiest going and gave the simplest commands with congratulations to all players while being the first to go in with their Atlases.

If the contest got hot for that world the better unit players did leave for up for 12 mans. Then as now, better players will usually choose the better factions leaving less competition between the top players. This is the same for any faction server based game, and it gets boring.

FW maps are too much like chess. If you do not gain the advantage by loosing pieces and position, it is harder to fight back against a better skilled opponent who memorize efficiently predictable patterns. The classic maps at least have a bit more flow with different positions not being so far superior or worse. This makes it more fun for all, win or lose. We need some paper and scissors for the kill zone rocks in the maps.

[s0da72]

DeRazer, on 27 November 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

But the current structure penalises playing in new mechs, which is ironic given that this is their main source of income...

Irony HA, this is the same company that lets you customize your mech any way you want but then spends years of development trying to find convoluted ways to punish players who do by establishing quirks and Ghost heat. They could have solved the whole problem in the mech bay by not allowing people to boat certain weapons types. 3 PPC's I'm sorry you can only have 2, no ghost heat. Look at the bright side without all this nonsense we would never have gotten to see theb33f videos with Direstars essentially mocking the system for a good laugh.

[Ghogiel]

Idealsuspect, on 27 November 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

Totally wrong.
When CW gets queues split solos players were able to play in group queue as solo just need to have or be a part of an unit..
ONLY freelancers weren't able to join group queue ( and of course mercs or loyalists without units )
In fact PGI did split queue between unit members and people without unit, they didn't split queues between groups and solos.


Matchs were better without thoses casuals people and CW was fine at this state.
But PGI did step back for few people who did left the game after anyway, they did rebroke CW also GGClose...

Yep. There was never a group/solo player queue split. It was tag and non tag queue. It had nothing to do with solo or group playing.

Another reason it was fubar and the untagged queue dieing quickly> You needed a unit tag to join a faction as a merc. Which made little difference in the tagged queue because most players just created a unit so as to actually get decent rewards. freelancers get shafted for CW rewards, I expect most people actually want mechbays and MC from playing CW.

There are droves of people around here and dozens of threads by clueless numpties reguritating the idea that PGI "tried" to do a group/solo split in CW but it failed because there wasn't enough solo players to keep the queue going, even though we know for a fact there are way more solo players than grouped. Obviously that doesn't make sense. It's just weird, there are tons of threads about it after phase 3 WHILE it was going on and people still didn't understand how the split worked and why one was DOA.

My fav part is how Russ knew it wouldn't work but he implimented it anyway for the sake of the community wishes. Really Russ?